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Canada dismantled gun registry (Read 8875 times)
Baronvonrort
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Re: Canada dismantled gun registry
Reply #30 - Sep 8th, 2015 at 4:36pm
 
Pho Huc wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 3:08pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 1:18pm:
Pho Huc wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 12:59pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 11:41am:
How does car registration prevent people from drink driving or speeding,why are you ignoring this question peccahead are you a pissant troll with nothing to contribute?




Registration cannot solve firearm crimes or prevent them, they need to ballistic test (fire the gun) to link it to a crime.




Ballistic test links gun to crime. Then registration links gun to owner.
Again, that is how it works.

Of course, this only works if the gun is registered.



They don't need registration to link a firearm to its owner.

Section 4A of the firearms act says if the firearm is in or on your property you are in possession of it,that is how it works.

The Police ballistic test every gun they find,Secion 4A links the person to the firearm and the ballistics test links the firearm to the crime.
Registration does nothing to prevent or solve gun crimes,the Police told the senate inquiry over 90% of all gun crimes are done with unlicensed unregistered semi auto pistols.







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greggerypeccary
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Re: Canada dismantled gun registry
Reply #31 - Sep 8th, 2015 at 4:39pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 1:18pm:
Registration cannot solve firearm crimes or prevent them, they need to ballistic test (fire the gun) to link it to a crime.




There's no possible way of knowing if registration has prevented a crime or not.

Stop posting garbage.

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Baronvonrort
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Re: Canada dismantled gun registry
Reply #32 - Sep 8th, 2015 at 4:46pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 4:39pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 1:18pm:
Registration cannot solve firearm crimes or prevent them, they need to ballistic test (fire the gun) to link it to a crime.




There's no possible way of knowing if registration has prevented a crime or not.




The Canadians cited the fact registration cannot solve or prevent gun crimes as a reason for abolishing it along with a $2 billion dollar cost.

New Zealand had long gun registration and they abolished it as well.

Peccahead is a troll who cannot handle the truth.


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greggerypeccary
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Re: Canada dismantled gun registry
Reply #33 - Sep 8th, 2015 at 5:22pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 4:46pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 4:39pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 1:18pm:
Registration cannot solve firearm crimes or prevent them, they need to ballistic test (fire the gun) to link it to a crime.




There's no possible way of knowing if registration has prevented a crime or not.




The Canadians cited the fact registration cannot solve or prevent gun crimes as a reason for abolishing it along with a $2 billion dollar cost.




They can cite whatever they want, however, there's no possible way of knowing if registration has prevented a crime or not.

You're just posting regurgitated garbage.

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Baronvonrort
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Re: Canada dismantled gun registry
Reply #34 - Sep 9th, 2015 at 12:18pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 5:22pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 4:46pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 4:39pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 1:18pm:
Registration cannot solve firearm crimes or prevent them, they need to ballistic test (fire the gun) to link it to a crime.




There's no possible way of knowing if registration has prevented a crime or not.




The Canadians cited the fact registration cannot solve or prevent gun crimes as a reason for abolishing it along with a $2 billion dollar cost.




They can cite whatever they want, however, there's no possible way of knowing if registration has prevented a crime or not.

You're just posting regurgitated garbage.



You are the troll posting garbage in this forum, how does car/boat/plane registration prevent crimes peccahead?

Car registration does not prevent people from drink driving or speeding yet for some reason hoplophobes think gun registration can prevent crimes.

AIC study on homicide in Australia-
Quote:
Page 31
Conclusions-

The majority of firearms used in homicides were unregistered and or unlicensed


www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/mr/mr13/mr13.pdf


It shows what a waste of time and money gun registration is when the majority of firearm homicides are done with unregistered  firearms.

The hoplophobes like peccahead certainly have irrational fears.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Canada dismantled gun registry
Reply #35 - Sep 9th, 2015 at 12:24pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 12:18pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 5:22pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 4:46pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 4:39pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 8th, 2015 at 1:18pm:
Registration cannot solve firearm crimes or prevent them, they need to ballistic test (fire the gun) to link it to a crime.




There's no possible way of knowing if registration has prevented a crime or not.




The Canadians cited the fact registration cannot solve or prevent gun crimes as a reason for abolishing it along with a $2 billion dollar cost.




They can cite whatever they want, however, there's no possible way of knowing if registration has prevented a crime or not.

You're just posting regurgitated garbage.



You are the troll posting garbage in this forum,




I'm posting the truth.

There's no possible way of knowing if registration has prevented a crime or not.

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Baronvonrort
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Re: Canada dismantled gun registry
Reply #36 - Sep 9th, 2015 at 12:27pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 12:24pm:
I'm posting the truth.



You are posting bullshit peccahead.

Anything to say about the majority of gun homicdes being done with unregistered firearms in Australia?


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greggerypeccary
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Re: Canada dismantled gun registry
Reply #37 - Sep 9th, 2015 at 1:04pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 12:27pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 12:24pm:
I'm posting the truth.



You are posting bullshit peccahead.




The truth.

There's no possible way of knowing if registration has prevented a crime or not.
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Pho Huc
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Re: Canada dismantled gun registry
Reply #38 - Sep 9th, 2015 at 1:12pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 12:18pm:
You are the troll posting garbage in this forum, how does car/boat/plane registration prevent crimes peccahead?

Car registration does not prevent people from drink driving or speeding yet for some reason hoplophobes think gun registration can prevent crimes.

AIC study on homicide in Australia-
Quote:
Page 31
Conclusions-

The majority of firearms used in homicides were unregistered and or unlicensed


www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/mr/mr13/mr13.pdf


It shows what a waste of time and money gun registration is when the majority of firearm homicides are done with unregistered  firearms.

The hoplophobes like peccahead certainly have irrational fears.


You do realize that the fact that the majority of gun crimes are committed with unregistered weapons is an argument in favour of gun registration, not against.

The logical extension of the statement " The majority of firearms used in homicides were unregistered and or unlicensed " is that registered weapons are much less likely to be used in homicides.

Especially when you factor in the  10 to 1(based on government estimates) ratio of legal weapons to legal weapons.

Essentially, registering a gun reduces the probability of it being used in a homicide by at least a factor of ten, based on the argument presented by Baron.
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Canada dismantled gun registry
Reply #39 - Sep 9th, 2015 at 3:49pm
 
Pho Huc wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 1:12pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 12:18pm:
You are the troll posting garbage in this forum, how does car/boat/plane registration prevent crimes peccahead?

Car registration does not prevent people from drink driving or speeding yet for some reason hoplophobes think gun registration can prevent crimes.

AIC study on homicide in Australia-
Quote:
Page 31
Conclusions-

The majority of firearms used in homicides were unregistered and or unlicensed


www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/mr/mr13/mr13.pdf


It shows what a waste of time and money gun registration is when the majority of firearm homicides are done with unregistered  firearms.

The hoplophobes like peccahead certainly have irrational fears.


You do realize that the fact that the majority of gun crimes are committed with unregistered weapons is an argument in favour of gun registration, not against.



The majority of gun homicides are done with unregistered firearms, how is that an argument for gun registration when criminals don't register their guns?

The fact the majority of gun homicides are done with unregistered firearms shows what a waste of money the $100 million a year spent on our firearms registry really is, the firearms registry does nothing to solve or prevent gun crime.

The Canadians and New Zealanders abolished their firearms registry because it did not solve or prevent crime and cost taxpayers a fortune for no effect with gun crime.



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Re: Canada dismantled gun registry
Reply #40 - Sep 9th, 2015 at 9:45pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 3:49pm:
Pho Huc wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 1:12pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 12:18pm:
You are the troll posting garbage in this forum, how does car/boat/plane registration prevent crimes peccahead?

Car registration does not prevent people from drink driving or speeding yet for some reason hoplophobes think gun registration can prevent crimes.

AIC study on homicide in Australia-
Quote:
Page 31
Conclusions-

The majority of firearms used in homicides were unregistered and or unlicensed


www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/mr/mr13/mr13.pdf


It shows what a waste of time and money gun registration is when the majority of firearm homicides are done with unregistered  firearms.

The hoplophobes like peccahead certainly have irrational fears.


You do realize that the fact that the majority of gun crimes are committed with unregistered weapons is an argument in favour of gun registration, not against.



The majority of gun homicides are done with unregistered firearms, how is that an argument for gun registration when criminals don't register their guns?



The reason it demonstrates the advantages of registration is that once a gun is registered it is less likely to be used in a crime. Therefore the greater the proportion of guns registered, the smaller the supply of weapons generally used in gun crime.

Registering a gun creates a legal onus on the registered owner to keep track of that weapon.
This reduces the probability of said weapon being acquired by an unlicensed person.

Without gun registration or tracking you are abdicating responsibility for who decides who possesses firearm.


 
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Canada dismantled gun registry
Reply #41 - Sep 10th, 2015 at 7:21pm
 
Pho Huc wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 9:45pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 3:49pm:
Pho Huc wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 1:12pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 12:18pm:
You are the troll posting garbage in this forum, how does car/boat/plane registration prevent crimes peccahead?

Car registration does not prevent people from drink driving or speeding yet for some reason hoplophobes think gun registration can prevent crimes.

AIC study on homicide in Australia-
Quote:
Page 31
Conclusions-

The majority of firearms used in homicides were unregistered and or unlicensed


www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/mr/mr13/mr13.pdf


It shows what a waste of time and money gun registration is when the majority of firearm homicides are done with unregistered  firearms.

The hoplophobes like peccahead certainly have irrational fears.


You do realize that the fact that the majority of gun crimes are committed with unregistered weapons is an argument in favour of gun registration, not against.



The majority of gun homicides are done with unregistered firearms, how is that an argument for gun registration when criminals don't register their guns?



The reason it demonstrates the advantages of registration is that once a gun is registered it is less likely to be used in a crime. Therefore the greater the proportion of guns registered, the smaller the supply of weapons generally used in gun crime.

Registering a gun creates a legal onus on the registered owner to keep track of that weapon.
This reduces the probability of said weapon being acquired by an unlicensed person.

Without gun registration or tracking you are abdicating responsibility for who decides who possesses firearm.


 


Detective chief supt Finch told the senate inquiry over 90% of all firearm crime is done with pistols.
The Police also told the senate inquiry licensed firearm owners are not the problem
Page 41 of the hansard for Sydney-
www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Legal_and_Constitutional...

Pistols have been registered in NSW since 1927, criminals don't register their pistols which account for over 90% of all gun crime according to the Police.

Of course being a hoplophobic green supporter you will push their party line in blaming law abiding firearm owners who have passed background checks for criminal record and mental illness and have been judged a fit and proper person who is no danger to public safety by the commissioner of police for criminals acquiring firearms.

Sylvania waters post office was caught illegally importing over 200 Glock pistols when one of their customers was picked up with a glock that still had the serial number,none of those guns were ever registered yet the police were able to track the gun to workers at Sylvania Waters without even touching the firearms registry

It is licensing not registration that decides who can possess firearms, the Police are responsible for deciding who can have a firearm licence



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Re: Canada dismantled gun registry
Reply #42 - Sep 10th, 2015 at 8:05pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 10th, 2015 at 7:21pm:
Pho Huc wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 9:45pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 3:49pm:
Pho Huc wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 1:12pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 12:18pm:
You are the troll posting garbage in this forum, how does car/boat/plane registration prevent crimes peccahead?

Car registration does not prevent people from drink driving or speeding yet for some reason hoplophobes think gun registration can prevent crimes.

AIC study on homicide in Australia-
Quote:
Page 31
Conclusions-

The majority of firearms used in homicides were unregistered and or unlicensed


www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/mr/mr13/mr13.pdf


It shows what a waste of time and money gun registration is when the majority of firearm homicides are done with unregistered  firearms.

The hoplophobes like peccahead certainly have irrational fears.


You do realize that the fact that the majority of gun crimes are committed with unregistered weapons is an argument in favour of gun registration, not against.



The majority of gun homicides are done with unregistered firearms, how is that an argument for gun registration when criminals don't register their guns?



The reason it demonstrates the advantages of registration is that once a gun is registered it is less likely to be used in a crime. Therefore the greater the proportion of guns registered, the smaller the supply of weapons generally used in gun crime.

Registering a gun creates a legal onus on the registered owner to keep track of that weapon.
This reduces the probability of said weapon being acquired by an unlicensed person.

Without gun registration or tracking you are abdicating responsibility for who decides who possesses firearm.


 


Detective chief supt Finch told the senate inquiry over 90% of all firearm crime is done with pistols.
The Police also told the senate inquiry licensed firearm owners are not the problem
Page 41 of the hansard for Sydney-
www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Legal_and_Constitutional...

Pistols have been registered in NSW since 1927, criminals don't register their pistols which account for over 90% of all gun crime according to the Police.

Of course being a hoplophobic green supporter you will push their party line in blaming law abiding firearm owners who have passed background checks for criminal record and mental illness and have been judged a fit and proper person who is no danger to public safety by the commissioner of police for criminals acquiring firearms.

Sylvania waters post office was caught illegally importing over 200 Glock pistols when one of their customers was picked up with a glock that still had the serial number,none of those guns were ever registered yet the police were able to track the gun to workers at Sylvania Waters without even touching the firearms registry

It is licensing not registration that decides who can possess firearms, the Police are responsible for deciding who can have a firearm licence





Without gun registration licensing becomes much less effective.
As an analogy, without car registration the ability to monitor the actions of the cars owner is reduced. People widely accept that the benefits of being able to tell who legally owns a car outweighs the costs involved with the necessary bureaucracy. 


I cannot argue with you about how many guns are illegally imported into Australia, because no-one on earth knows the true number.
I don't see how it would have any relevance unless the guns were coming in such huge numbers that the existing gun stocks became irrelevant, and this is not the case.

I will say that there different opinions on the numbers. I used this page as a reference as it collates both police and ACC crime data.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-26/source-of-illicit-guns-in-australia/6483762

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Baronvonrort
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Re: Canada dismantled gun registry
Reply #43 - Sep 10th, 2015 at 10:29pm
 
Pho Huc wrote on Sep 10th, 2015 at 8:05pm:
Without gun registration licensing becomes much less effective.

I cannot argue with you about how many guns are illegally imported into Australia, because no-one on earth knows the true number.
I don't see how it would have any relevance unless the guns were coming in such huge numbers that the existing gun stocks became irrelevant, and this is not the case.

I will say that there different opinions on the numbers. I used this page as a reference as it collates both police and ACC crime data.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-26/source-of-illicit-guns-in-australia/6483762



Canada and New Zealand said licensing was effective and gun registration was costly and ineffective which is why they abolished it.
Licnesing ie controlling who can have guns is what Canada and New Zealand focus on, their gun crime rates have continued to fall despite abolishing registration.

We don't know how many guns are illegally imported,the pump action shotgun used in the Lindt siege had no record of being imported into Australia so you cannot say it wasn't handed in when it could have been an illegal import.

Your ABC link shows fact check are idiot lefties, does the ABC article have the NSW police saying illegal importation and not theft is driving gun crime, they back 100% what senator McKenzie said.

They cite the AIC and ACC studies as proof of their idiocy and cherry picking, those studies had no data on illegal importation it was never a part of the study yet it doesn't stop the idiotic hoplophobic greens and ABC fact check from misusing a study on theft to claim it is a bigger problem than illegal importation.

Here is the author of the much cited study Dr Samantha Bricknell
-In the first 30 seconds Dr Bricknell asks her submitted gun theft figures from Tas be changed from 212 to 62
-Around 13min 30 she said 70% of the recovered guns were of unknown origin and people should be careful in what conclusions they draw from such a large unkown
-Around 16min 20 sec to 17min 20 the AIC confirm they never looked at illegal importation and they had no data on that
-From 31 minutes to finish they confirm idiotic hoplophbes are misusing a study on theft and recovered guns to make claims this is greater than illegal importation which they never looked at.
-Greens senator penny wright left the room around 11min and never heard this,she persists in telling lies and making herself look stupid.


The people who want to cite AIC and ACC studies should listen to the author of it before claiming those studies have anything to do with illegal importation.

Winchester and Beretta gave evidence to the senate inquiry they help track unregistered guns from their origin.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Canada dismantled gun registry
Reply #44 - Sep 10th, 2015 at 11:43pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9th, 2015 at 3:49pm:
The Canadians and New Zealanders abolished their firearms registry because it did not solve or prevent crime and cost taxpayers a fortune for no effect with gun crime.



There's no possible way of knowing if registration has prevented a crime or not.
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