Australian Politics Forum - Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering

polite_gandalf

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #45 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 7:39am

freediver wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:37pm:

To me this looks like you backpedaling Gandalf. Can you explain the apparent contradiction?

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 2:38pm:

Sorry for hijacking the other thread.

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 10:17am:

We don't have a different perspective. You agree that they were not individually tried and punished, or even guilty in an individual sense. You agree that it was collective punishment.

Right?

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 10:31am:

Nope.

Are you denying that you previously argued in support of collective punishment in order to justify this, by insisting the Jews were a collective?

Quote:

They were all given the opportunity to disown the betrayal and repledge their loyalty to their city.

You have said this a few times lately Gandalf, but this argument always disappears into thin air as soon as I try to look at it. How were they given this opportunity?

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 4:08pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 2:38pm:

Are you denying that you previously argued in support of collective punishment in order to justify this,

yes. Quote me. I recall one of your usual 50+ page threads in which you tried to put those words in my mouth, and which I repeatedly rejected.

Funny, to me it looks like you quoting yourself claiming that I'm backpeddling.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Mattyfisk

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #46 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 11:14am

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 13^th, 2015 at 7:39am:

freediver wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:37pm:

To me this looks like you backpedaling Gandalf. Can you explain the apparent contradiction?

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 2:38pm:

Sorry for hijacking the other thread.

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 10:17am:

We don't have a different perspective. You agree that they were not individually tried and punished, or even guilty in an individual sense. You agree that it was collective punishment.

Right?

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 10:31am:

Nope.

Are you denying that you previously argued in support of collective punishment in order to justify this, by insisting the Jews were a collective?

Quote:

They were all given the opportunity to disown the betrayal and repledge their loyalty to their city.

You have said this a few times lately Gandalf, but this argument always disappears into thin air as soon as I try to look at it. How were they given this opportunity?

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 4:08pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 2:38pm:

Are you denying that you previously argued in support of collective punishment in order to justify this,

yes. Quote me. I recall one of your usual 50+ page threads in which you tried to put those words in my mouth, and which I repeatedly rejected.

Funny, to me it looks like you quoting yourself claiming that I'm backpeddling.

Yes, but why would FD fib?

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freediver

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #47 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 1:06pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 13^th, 2015 at 7:39am:

freediver wrote on Aug 12^th, 2015 at 8:37pm:

To me this looks like you backpedaling Gandalf. Can you explain the apparent contradiction?

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 2:38pm:

Sorry for hijacking the other thread.

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 10:17am:

We don't have a different perspective. You agree that they were not individually tried and punished, or even guilty in an individual sense. You agree that it was collective punishment.

Right?

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 10:31am:

Nope.

Are you denying that you previously argued in support of collective punishment in order to justify this, by insisting the Jews were a collective?

Quote:

They were all given the opportunity to disown the betrayal and repledge their loyalty to their city.

You have said this a few times lately Gandalf, but this argument always disappears into thin air as soon as I try to look at it. How were they given this opportunity?

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 4:08pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 7^th, 2015 at 2:38pm:

Are you denying that you previously argued in support of collective punishment in order to justify this,

yes. Quote me. I recall one of your usual 50+ page threads in which you tried to put those words in my mouth, and which I repeatedly rejected.

Funny, to me it looks like you quoting yourself claiming that I'm backpeddling.

Here are the relevant bits for you Gandalf:

Quote:

Nope.

Quote:

yes. Quote me.

Also, I don't think you ever explained how "they were all given the opportunity to disown the betrayal". It is hard to imagine 800 people choosing to die instead of disowning their crime, regardless of whether they were actually involved in the crime.

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92395 Gender:	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #48 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 2:19pm I see. That yes was G agreeing with you, FD. They're rat-cunning, no?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #49 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 3:43pm freediver wrote on Aug 13^th, 2015 at 1:06pm: Here are the relevant bits for you Gandalf: sooo me confirming not once but twice that I don't believe they were collectively punished is relevant to what exactly? Something to do with backpeddling...?
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freediver

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #50 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 6:38pm

So they were collectively punished without it being collective punishment? You never gave a sensible explanation for that.

How were they given the opportunity to disown the betrayal?

In what way were they punished for their own actions? Why does this not contradict your other assertion that they were punished for the crime of their leader?

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #51 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 7:10pm So I guess we've moved on from gandalf backpeddling? Its kinda like a deflection within a deflection. Reminds me of Inception.
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freediver

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #52 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 7:40pm

Quote:

So I guess we've moved on from gandalf backpeddling?

We can keep going with that if you want Gandalf. Basically you stand behind everything you've said, except that you no longer say anything at all like it, and will deny it when asked.

How were they given the opportunity to disown the betrayal?

In what way were they punished for their own actions? Why does this not contradict your other assertion that they were punished for the crime of their leader?

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92395 Gender:	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #53 - Aug 13^th, 2015 at 9:08pm freediver wrote on Aug 13^th, 2015 at 7:40pm: Quote: So I guess we've moved on from gandalf backpeddling? We can keep going with that if you want Gandalf. No, FD, that’s just dull. We’ve done all that. I say we talk about Freediver. Can I ask you a little question? What do you say? Up for it?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #54 - Aug 14^th, 2015 at 7:30am

freediver wrote on Aug 13^th, 2015 at 7:40pm:

We can keep going with that if you want Gandalf. Basically you stand behind everything you've said, except that you no longer say anything at all like it, and will deny it when asked.

Lets be more specific.

Exactly what am I supposedly backpeddling on? How does quoting me saying the same thing twice supposed to show how I'm backpeddling?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #55 - Aug 14^th, 2015 at 8:25am

All I have is your one word denials Gandalf. Only you can elaborate on that. And the absence of you saying anything remotely similar since 2013.

How were they given the opportunity to disown the betrayal?

In what way were they punished for their own actions? Why does this not contradict your other assertion that they were punished for the crime of their leader? I suppose this is also backpedaling in a specific way.

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Mattyfisk Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 92395 Gender:	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #56 - Aug 14^th, 2015 at 9:50am Can I ask you a question, FD? You’re free to say no. A one word denial will suffice.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #57 - Aug 14^th, 2015 at 10:51am

freediver wrote on Aug 14^th, 2015 at 8:25am:

All I have is your one word denials Gandalf. Only you can elaborate on that. And the absence of you saying anything remotely similar since 2013.

Thats very cryptic FD. Were the one word denials contrary to what I said before? The ones you quoted before certainly weren't. Since 2013 have I contradicted what I said then, or are you just saying I haven't repeated the same arguments? Again, lets be more specific.

freediver wrote on Aug 14^th, 2015 at 8:25am:

How were they given the opportunity to disown the betrayal?

By re-pledging their loyalty to the treaty they broke. Feel free to look it up.

freediver wrote on Aug 14^th, 2015 at 8:25am:

n what way were they punished for their own actions? Why does this not contradict your other assertion that they were punished for the crime of their leader?

The two things are perfectly consistent. I'm not going to repeat the same explanation that you quoted in this very thread.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering
Reply #58 - Aug 14^th, 2015 at 12:16pm

Quote:

By re-pledging their loyalty to the treaty they broke. Feel free to look it up.

There is nothing in the wikipedia article about it Gandalf. It also sounds a bit far fethced, and you have been remarkably reluctant to elaborate on this story.

Quote:

The two things are perfectly consistent. I'm not going to repeat the same explanation that you quoted in this very thread.

So being killed for the crime of their leader is perfectly consistent with being killed for their own actions?

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20023 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islamic justification for Jew slaughtering Reply #59 - Aug 14^th, 2015 at 3:21pm freediver wrote on Aug 14^th, 2015 at 12:16pm: So being killed for the crime of their leader is perfectly consistent with being killed for their own actions? Of course its not.
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