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2015 ~ $41,000,000,000 Hand Out To Fossil (Read 11141 times)
Bam
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Re: 2015 ~ $41,000,000,000 Hand Out To Fossil
Reply #60 - Jul 28th, 2015 at 10:45pm
 
Even if we only focus on the $16 billion in real subsidies, that's still a lot of money.

How does that amount of money compare to the amount of money we spend separately on health, defence, tertiary education, childcare, transport (building new roads and rail), welfare (other than the age pension and family tax benefits)? Or compare like with like - how does $16 billion compare to the subsidies we spend on sustainable energy?

Do we really need to spend all that money on fossil fuel subsidies?
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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innocentbystander.
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Re: 2015 ~ $41,000,000,000 Hand Out To Fossil
Reply #61 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 7:43am
 
Actually the true non Goebbels propaganda fossil fuel subsidy figure is around 4 billion, which is still a lot in dollar terms but not much when compared to the size of the industry or the amount that the renewable sector receives.
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aquascoot
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Re: 2015 ~ $41,000,000,000 Hand Out To Fossil
Reply #62 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 8:02am
 
Bam wrote on Jul 28th, 2015 at 10:45pm:
Even if we only focus on the $16 billion in real subsidies, that's still a lot of money.

How does that amount of money compare to the amount of money we spend separately on health, defence, tertiary education, childcare, transport (building new roads and rail), welfare (other than the age pension and family tax benefits)? Or compare like with like - how does $16 billion compare to the subsidies we spend on sustainable energy?

Do we really need to spend all that money on fossil fuel subsidies?



coal earns us export dollars, money spent here improves the economy.

health and education are a bottomless pit.

despite massive increases in spending in public schools and public hospitals, on all measureable parameters, we are going backwards.

governments, bean counters, unionised workforces, no incentive for excellence and a toxic, slacker, public service attitude , combined with big rewards for dubious BS like "workplace stress" etc have seen health and education as basket cases of government failure.

Abbott was right to strip billions from these wasteful sectors.

Coal is a marvellous industry full of great cutting edge technology and driven by people passionate about developing this asset and contributing to the nations bottom line.

All those slackers in health and education , should be made to put down their "womens weekly's" and go do a 48 hr week in an underground pit at blackwater to try to make up for their sins of being slackers and bludgers
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Dsmithy70
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Re: 2015 ~ $41,000,000,000 Hand Out To Fossil
Reply #63 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 9:09am
 
aquascoot wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 8:02am:
coal earns us export dollars, money spent here improves the economy.


Why does BHP use Singapore then?

aquascoot wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 8:02am:
health and education are a bottomless pit.


Because they are the only things that really matter.
We get a better society from education & improved lives from health.

aquascoot wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 8:02am:
despite massive increases in spending in public schools and public hospitals, on all measureable parameters, we are going backwards.


I like to see some ACTUAL data to back this claim
I'd wager this "Increase" either comes at a cost to a different sector within those sectors or is for more pointless inquiries or bureaucracy.

aquascoot wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 8:02am:
governments, bean counters, unionised workforces, no incentive for excellence and a toxic, slacker, public service attitude , combined with big rewards for dubious BS like "workplace stress" etc have seen health and education as basket cases of government failure.

Abbott was right to strip billions from these wasteful sectors.


Hang on you just said funding had increased????????????

aquascoot wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 8:02am:
All those slackers in health and education , should be made to put down their "womens weekly's" and go do a 48 hr week in an underground pit at blackwater to try to make up for their sins of being slackers and bludgers



You really have no idea do you
Do you even know any underground miners, by that statement I'd say not.

But lucky for you I know several, mining these days is highly automated & underground"pitts" are more like underground office suites.
Believe me more womens weekly's get read underground than will ever be read at a teachers desk or nurses station.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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longweekend58
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Re: 2015 ~ $41,000,000,000 Hand Out To Fossil
Reply #64 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 9:35am
 
Radical wrote on Jul 28th, 2015 at 7:57pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 28th, 2015 at 6:19pm:
Radical wrote on Jul 28th, 2015 at 5:52pm:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 10:19am:
The article leaves itself open to debate.

41 billion sounds great & would make a very good basis for shutting old men invested in fossil fuels down, however 25 billion of the 41 figure is a guestimate,

Quote:
The IMF finds amid the total $41 billion Australian subsidy to coal, gas and petroleum energy use in 2015, global warming and air pollution represents about $25 billion.


Whilst this maybe true or even underestimated it still leaves room for conjecture.

As stated 41 sounds great but IMO they should have just stuck to the 16 billion which is undisputed.

Especially since the current arguments AGAINST renewables is government subsidies, the 25 bill guestimate argument will drown out what could have been a strong win.


If the article did not include the global warming component the denialists would have raised it anyway.

These are IMF figures for a global audience and the last thing they need to do is pander to an extreme fringe in denial of reality.


there is nothing more deceitful than including $25B in subsidies that werent actually paid.


Are you that ignorant that you cannot grasp the concept of an indirect subsidy? Or is it a case of a deceitful extremist trying to cover up the REAL societal cost of fossil fuels?



its not a subsidy AT ALL.  no money is paid... EVER.  the subsidy is $16B, no more.  'societal costs' are subjective, put together by people with an agenda.  and how about we then add the 'societal benefit'?  what is the value of having cars, publci transport, modern technology, all made possible by fossil fuels.  Shall we add a $1T social benefit?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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aquascoot
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Re: 2015 ~ $41,000,000,000 Hand Out To Fossil
Reply #65 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:05am
 
If i hear one more politician talk about more money for
schools, hospitals and roads",

in these times of deficits and asset sell offs, i'll spew.

Non income producing bottomless pits need to be whipped into shape by the productivity commision.

Our farmers and miners are world class.
Our private hospitals are great.
Our private schools are great.

Our public hospitals and public schools are basket cases and need a good kick up the ass Wink
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: 2015 ~ $41,000,000,000 Hand Out To Fossil
Reply #66 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:09am
 
$41,000,000,000 in Govt handouts to fossil fuel industry. You got to think like a slave to defend this in any way. 

What was it that Old Duck Said:

The trouble with Capitalism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. 

...

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« Last Edit: Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:16am by ImSpartacus2 »  
 
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stunspore
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Re: 2015 ~ $41,000,000,000 Hand Out To Fossil
Reply #67 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:14am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 9:29am:
____ wrote on Jul 27th, 2015 at 9:14am:
Two posts and neither on topic ibs. Any reason why?


dont like being treated as you treat every other thread?

suck it up gay-boy.


I always thought these forums were moderated, that there is a sticky note to state being offensive (to posters with personal attacks) is wrong.  Evidently I am wrong.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: 2015 ~ $41,000,000,000 Hand Out To Fossil
Reply #68 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:21am
 
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:09am:
$41,000,000,000 in Govt handouts to fossil fuel industry. You got to think like a slave to defend this in any way. 

What was it that Old Duck Said:

The trouble with Capitalism
Socialism
is that you eventually run out of other people's money. 

http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/images/1/p/f/p/6/image.related.articleLeadNarr...



Fixed it for you.
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: 2015 ~ $41,000,000,000 Hand Out To Fossil
Reply #69 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:24am
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:21am:
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:09am:
$41,000,000,000 in Govt handouts to fossil fuel industry. You got to think like a slave to defend this in any way. 

What was it that Old Duck Said:

The trouble with Capitalism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. 


http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/images/1/p/f/p/6/image.related.articleLeadNarr...



Fixed it for you.


Thanks!!!!!!
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gizmo_2655
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Re: 2015 ~ $41,000,000,000 Hand Out To Fossil
Reply #70 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:28am
 
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:24am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:21am:
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:09am:
$41,000,000,000 in Govt handouts to fossil fuel industry. You got to think like a slave to defend this in any way. 

What was it that Old Duck Said:

The trouble withSocialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. 


http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/images/1/p/f/p/6/image.related.articleLeadNarr...



Fixed it for you.


Thanks!!!!!!


No worries!!!
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: 2015 ~ $41,000,000,000 Hand Out To Fossil
Reply #71 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:31am
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:28am:
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:24am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:21am:
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:09am:
$41,000,000,000 in Govt handouts to fossil fuel industry. You got to think like a slave to defend this in any way. 

What was it that Old Duck Said:

The trouble with Capitalism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
 


http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/images/1/p/f/p/6/image.related.articleLeadNarr...



Fixed it for you.


Thanks!!!!!!


No worries!!!


That's OK
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: 2015 ~ $41,000,000,000 Hand Out To Fossil
Reply #72 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:34am
 
Actually  I think I will put up a multitude of these things until the mods step in if you keep tampering with my posts


$41,000,000,000 in Govt handouts to fossil fuel industry. You got to think like a slave to defend this in any way. 

What was it that Old Duck Said:

The trouble with Capitalism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. 

...

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Bam
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Re: 2015 ~ $41,000,000,000 Hand Out To Fossil
Reply #73 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:35am
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 9:09am:
aquascoot wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 8:02am:
blah blah blah

You really have no idea do you

Scoot is a troll.
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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Bam
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Re: 2015 ~ $41,000,000,000 Hand Out To Fossil
Reply #74 - Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:37am
 
ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 10:34am:
The trouble with Capitalism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. 

http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/images/1/p/f/p/6/image.related.articleLeadNarr...

The trouble with Capitalists is they keep taking other people's money.  Cool
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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