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Feral fox problems. (Read 6896 times)
Baronvonrort
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Feral fox problems.
Jul 13th, 2015 at 12:39pm
 
Fox numbers are increasing in Australia.

Quote:
Urban foxes are more common in the eastern suburbs than in semi rural areas of Sydney's west but local authorities are hamstrung when it come to dealing with the local population.

Baiting programs are not an option in our suburbs because of the risk baits pose to domestic pets.

From his office at Neilson Park ,Mr Treanor said only last week he watched as a fox emerged from the ground of Greycliffe house and made its way towards the harbour shore.

He said foxes posed a threat to native bird populations,and small mammal populations ,such as penguins and bandicoots.
dailytelegraph.com.au/newslocal/city-east/foxes-thriving-in-sydneys-eastern-subu...


Quote:
Penguin killing fox still at large at North Head as operation to catch it continues.

The fox that has killed 26 penguins at north head in the past fortnight remains at large,threatening the only mainland colony of little penguins in NSW.

A Fox shot by a marksman at north head early Saturday morning has proved to be another fox that had been eating bandicoots and possums.

NPWS ranger Mel Tyas said there could be several foxes at North head,despite a year round baiting program.
dailytelegraph.com.au/newslocal/northern-beaches/penguin-killing-fox-still-at-la...


Foxes were unheard of in the Eastern Suburbs and North head before our gun laws.

Nice to know they are baiting year round with 1080 at North head,1080 takes up to 4 days to kill whatever is unlucky enough to ingest it,amazing how hoplophobes object to people shooting feral pests which results in instant death yet they approve of using 1080 which results in a slow cruel death.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Feral fox problems.
Reply #1 - Jul 13th, 2015 at 11:18pm
 
Nothing stopping you from hunting foxes in Sydney's Eastern Suburbs, with your bolt action rifle, Baron.  Except of course the need to get a hunting license and being able to guarantee that you won't occidentally shoot some suburbanites with your overs or unders.   Of course, all would be hunters are such dead shots they never miss, do they?    Roll Eyes

Traps and baits are easier to use, in urban environments, Baron.   They are safer and more sure, than people blazing away into the darkness...   Roll Eyes
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Lionel Edriess
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Re: Feral fox problems.
Reply #2 - Jul 14th, 2015 at 12:06am
 

Anschutz 1532 with a Bushnell 3x9x40 was the fox pelt accumulator back in the day.

A head shot was the only way to make money, the winter pelts were worth the effort.

250m under the light was easy.

Never hit a civilian.

Cool


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Baronvonrort
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Re: Feral fox problems.
Reply #3 - Jul 14th, 2015 at 10:18am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 13th, 2015 at 11:18pm:
Nothing stopping you from hunting foxes in Sydney's Eastern Suburbs, with your bolt action rifle, Baron.

Traps and baits are easier to use, in urban environments, Baron. 


The Eastern suburbs are zoned residential Brian, it's against the law to shoot in residential areas, you can only shoot in areas zoned rural, iwould say the law stops LAFO shooting in residential areas.
The hoplophobes who squeal the loudest appear to be profoundly ignorant of our laws.

Traps and bait are considered inhumane compared to the instant death from a well placed shot.

Fox numbers are rapidly increasing, the fact they are in residential areas like North head and the Eastern suburbs in evidence of that.

Quote:
Fox numbers explode to wreak havoc

Fox numbers are out of control and biting into lamb producers optimism of cashing in on a strong market.

Local and Services (LLS) biosecurity rangers have backed farmers claims fox numbers were sky high,while professional shooters said they were killing them in unprecedented numbers.

Glen Castellaro shot 1130 foxes in 2014,but recently shot 650 foxes in 18 nights.
The best night we had shot 88 and in the following weekend we returned to the same place and shot 84.

NSW farmers Griffith district council chairwoman Helen Dalton sustained significant fox damage to her flock of 400 Dorper lambs
It's clear to see a lot have been taken by foxes,particularly the ewes which had twins or triplets.
We had a 150% lambing rate and I know I only got two thirds at marking.
Mrs Dalton chose not to bait this year,instead opting to pay for professional shooters.
theland.com.au/news/agriculture/general/news/fox-numbers-explode-to-wreak-havoc/...



Then we have this idiocy from the greens-
Quote:
20. A ban on the recreational shooting of all animals.
greens.org.au/policies/animals

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greggerypeccary
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Re: Feral fox problems.
Reply #4 - Jul 14th, 2015 at 10:21am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 13th, 2015 at 11:18pm:
Traps and baits are easier to use, in urban environments, Baron.   They are safer and more sure, than people blazing away into the darkness...   



Yes, but blazing away in the darkness with a six pack in your hand is much more fun (and it helps Baron get his rocks off).


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Re: Feral fox problems.
Reply #5 - Jul 14th, 2015 at 3:25pm
 
I regard foxes as part of the natural ecosystem now. Everything had to come here sometime (boat people excluded).
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Lionel Edriess
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Re: Feral fox problems.
Reply #6 - Jul 14th, 2015 at 8:03pm
 

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 14th, 2015 at 10:21am:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 13th, 2015 at 11:18pm:
Traps and baits are easier to use, in urban environments, Baron.   They are safer and more sure, than people blazing away into the darkness...   



Yes, but blazing away in the darkness with a six pack in your hand is much more fun (and it helps Baron get his rocks off).




Your repetitive posting of this stereotype merely serves to illustrate your ignorance of the topic at hand and reveal your own bias towards people legally entitled to pursue pastimes that have a genuine positive impact on the environment we all share.

If, as indicated, you have a dislike or fear of firearms, at least be honest enough to admit it. This continual 'sniping' from the sidelines adds no credence to any point you might consider you are making.

Continue to sneer, and smear, by all means.

But be aware that your opinion is only worth the references you provide to support it, otherwise it just risks being thrown in the pile along with the rest of your unsupported commentary on many other such subjects.

With regard to the art of shooting, yours is a voice that needs muffling.

Just sayin'.

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MumboJumbo
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Re: Feral fox problems.
Reply #7 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 12:41pm
 
Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 14th, 2015 at 8:03pm:
With regard to the art of shooting, yours is a voice that needs muffling.


Oh snap! You gave him both barrels there!

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 14th, 2015 at 8:03pm:
Your repetitive posting of this stereotype merely serves to illustrate your ignorance of the topic at hand and reveal your own bias towards people legally entitled to pursue pastimes that have a genuine positive impact on the environment we all share.


There's a name for that.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 14th, 2015 at 10:18am:
Then we have this idiocy from the greens-

Idiocy? From the greens? Surely not!
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Brian Ross
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Re: Feral fox problems.
Reply #8 - Jul 15th, 2015 at 6:09pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 14th, 2015 at 10:18am:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 13th, 2015 at 11:18pm:
Nothing stopping you from hunting foxes in Sydney's Eastern Suburbs, with your bolt action rifle, Baron.

Traps and baits are easier to use, in urban environments, Baron. 


The Eastern suburbs are zoned residential Brian, it's against the law to shoot in residential areas, you can only shoot in areas zoned rural, iwould say the law stops LAFO shooting in residential areas.


What a shame you choose only to answer two of my points, Baron.  Typical of your debating style though, isn't it?   Roll Eyes
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Feral fox problems.
Reply #9 - Jul 16th, 2015 at 1:20pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 15th, 2015 at 6:09pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 14th, 2015 at 10:18am:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 13th, 2015 at 11:18pm:
Nothing stopping you from hunting foxes in Sydney's Eastern Suburbs, with your bolt action rifle, Baron.

Traps and baits are easier to use, in urban environments, Baron. 


The Eastern suburbs are zoned residential Brian, it's against the law to shoot in residential areas, you can only shoot in areas zoned rural, iwould say the law stops LAFO shooting in residential areas.


What a shame you choose only to answer two of my points, Baron.  Typical of your debating style though, isn't it?   Roll Eyes


The article I linked about foxes eating penguins in the OP answered your absurd claims about trapping and baiting being easier than shooting.

They said they were baiting year round at North Head,despite this year round indiscriminate baiting this method did nothing to remove these foxes who were shot by a NPWS officer.
There were 150 people involved in that operation for 2 foxes with only 2 marksmen from the NPWS, the foxes were shot by marksmen who had fox whistles so what futile efforts did the other 148 people contribute to removing these foxes?

A non lethal dose of bait can cause animals to develop an aversion to baits,there was a study which had around 20 foxes fitted with GPS collars who were released into an area before a baiting program,they found only 3 were killed by baits and 20 days later when the collars were set to be released around 15 foxes were still alive,2 were killed by hunters.

Trapping is inhumane IMO and far more work than shooting,when a trapped animal is caught they usually shoot it before removing it from the trap.
Quote:
-Trapped dogs will be without food or water for a period up to 24 hours
-Assumes traps are not set in bad weather and are placed in shaded areas
-Although traps are padded they can result in fractures and amputations
-Psychological studies indicates traps cause stress,anxiety,fear,frustration,pain from injuries and exertion from struggling against the trap.

Duration- With head shots, a properly placed shot will result in immediate insensibility.
Suffering-The approach of a human to a trapped dog will cause some distress, a well placed head shot should not cause any additional suffering.
daff.gov.au/SiteCollectionDocuments/animal-plant/animal-welfare/aaws/humaneness-...


A well placed head shot results in immediate death, the baits take hours/days to kill with severe suffering for the animal.
Quote:
Duration-
After a fox has ingested bait containing 1080 there is a latent period of around 30 minutes to 3 hours before initial signs like hyperexcitability,vocalisation,manic running and retching are observed.Signs of CNS disturbance including collapse,convulsions and tetanic spasms then follow,Death usually occurs about 2 hours after the onset of clinical signs.
In an experimental study of foxes dosed with 1080 in meat baits,there was a mean time of 4.05 hours between dosage and onset of clinical signs and a mean 1.57 hours from onset of clinical signs until death.

Suffering-
After the onset of clinical signs when animals are retching,displaying manic running and there is little or no CNS disturbance,it is likely that they will suffer and could experience distress,confusion,anxiety and pain.
In the later stages,where severe CND dysfunction has developed,it's unknown if animals are perceiving pain.
daff.gov.au/SiteCollectionDocuments/animal-plant/animal-welfare/aaws/humaneness-...


Your hoplophobia is making you think trapping/baiting is an alternative when it actually increases pain and suffering for the animals compared to an instant death from shooting.

Trapping and baiting is inhumane,it results in more work and money,  I cite the efforts of the 148 people involved at North head to remove 2 foxes that were shot when trapping/baiting failed to achieve anything
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Brian Ross
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Re: Feral fox problems.
Reply #10 - Jul 16th, 2015 at 10:30pm
 
Baron, for you the only answer acceptable is guns.   You're a gun nut.    Roll Eyes
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Re: Feral fox problems.
Reply #11 - Jul 17th, 2015 at 11:46pm
 

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16th, 2015 at 10:30pm:
Baron, for you the only answer acceptable is guns.   You're a gun nut.    Roll Eyes


And so are you - in opposition!

Cool

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Re: Feral fox problems.
Reply #12 - Jul 18th, 2015 at 11:24am
 
Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 17th, 2015 at 11:46pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16th, 2015 at 10:30pm:
Baron, for you the only answer acceptable is guns.   You're a gun nut.    Roll Eyes


And so are you - in opposition!

Cool



No, no, Lionel, according to the Baron I'm a, "hoplophobe", despite never being afraid of a gun in my life...    Roll Eyes
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Re: Feral fox problems.
Reply #13 - Jul 18th, 2015 at 2:01pm
 

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 18th, 2015 at 11:24am:
Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 17th, 2015 at 11:46pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16th, 2015 at 10:30pm:
Baron, for you the only answer acceptable is guns.   You're a gun nut.    Roll Eyes


And so are you - in opposition!

Cool



No, no, Lionel, according to the Baron I'm a, "hoplophobe", despite never being afraid of a gun in my life...    Roll Eyes


I've never been afraid of a gun either, but then I've never been confronted by some nut pointing one at me. Have you? It's not the weapon I fear, it's the predators at large in our society (as we all are).

All that, however, is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

I don't know whether you've witnessed the effects of the old 1080 baiting campaigns back in the day, but I have. So to argue that baiting is a better solution to feral fox problems merely illustrates that you have never hunted foxes for a bounty.

Indiscriminate baiting will never replace targeted eradication effectively, simply because of the 'collateral damage' to other species. Unless, of course, such damage is considered 'acceptable'. Fortunately, these days, such damage in usually only acceptable in warfare - something that, despite our concerns for animal welfare, we have never been able to eradicate from the political sphere.

So, in reality, we shouldn't use guns to kill animals - we should reserve their use for killing people, only if engaged in a politically sanctioned arena of conflict. Firearms should  only be possessed by those in charge, and the rest of us at times when we are encouraged and allowed to become cannon-fodder.

As for feral animal control, we'll just poison the general environment.

That sounds sane.

Cheesy

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Re: Feral fox problems.
Reply #14 - Jul 18th, 2015 at 3:53pm
 
Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 18th, 2015 at 2:01pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 18th, 2015 at 11:24am:
Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 17th, 2015 at 11:46pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 16th, 2015 at 10:30pm:
Baron, for you the only answer acceptable is guns.   You're a gun nut.    Roll Eyes


And so are you - in opposition!

Cool



No, no, Lionel, according to the Baron I'm a, "hoplophobe", despite never being afraid of a gun in my life...    Roll Eyes


I've never been afraid of a gun either, but then I've never been confronted by some nut pointing one at me. Have you? It's not the weapon I fear, it's the predators at large in our society (as we all are).


I have had multiple machine guns (loaded) pointed at me, Lionel and one which was fired in my general direction.  While it was a mistaken, UD, it focused my mind somewhat on the matter of survival.   After that, I refused outright to ever go up on the mound while the diggers at the other end of the range were in the loaded or action or instant condition again.   I became quite notorious for it in my unit.  I also refused to send anybody else from the butt party up.   You're right its the idiots who are the ultimate problem but as long as we have idiots, I find it safer for us all, that they do not to have access to the tools which allow them to do what they want to others, Lionel.    Roll Eyes

Quote:
All that, however, is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.


In your opinion.  Which is safer for suburbanites, Lionel?  1080 or some idiot with a gun blazing away into the darkness at a Fox?    Roll Eyes

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