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Graduates - please sir can I have some more (Read 2204 times)
Unforgiven
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Graduates - please sir can I have some more
Jul 1st, 2015 at 4:16pm
 
Apart from the fact that Universities are educating too many people for degree level qualifications, the job market itself for graduates is declining sharply.

People who would in the past would have studied humanities and arts have now been forced to enter the STEM and finance streams because they need a decent income to afford a home.

The times they are a changing. The beggar confronting you may be a recent STEM graduate who can't find a job and has huge HECS debt.

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/universities-need-to-take-responsibility-for--stud...
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The university system is failing our young. A culture of irresponsibility within higher education has created conditions where the job market is being flooded with graduates seeking jobs in industries which do not need them.

Salaries for graduates are falling, as the rate of employment for graduates is falling off a cliff.

The culture of irresponsibility in higher education begins with the simple fact that too many people are going to university who probably shouldn't be.

In 1950, one in every 267 Australian adults went to university. Today the figure is one in every 18 adults (including international students). Across Australia, around 1.2 million people are studying for a Bachelor's degree or higher.

It is hard to know whether we should celebrate these figures or if they should give us cause to pause.

An uncomfortable truth is that even with the best teachers, not all of these people will go on to finish their courses. And it is unfair, even cruel, to encourage people to enter into higher education if they do not have the proficiency, or the capacity, to achieve decent grades.

And with too many people attending university and the potential for corruption is on the rise, one of the saddest developments in higher education today is the decline of the humanities. Enrolments in the arts have been dwindling for decades. And for those who do graduate from the Arts, many lack proper training in primary research, expository writing or formal logic.

The decline in student numbers  in the Arts is perhaps not surprising, when you consider the median house price in Sydney is approaching $1 million, which reinforces the need for a degree to dispense a marketable  (read money making)  skill.

Apart from being marinated in ideology, Arts students are also drowned for three years in jargon-heavy theory with negligible application whatsoever to real life. A glance at a leading literature conference (an event where researchers come to meet) gives a ready sense of what today's students have to put up with.

At the Australasian Association of Literature Convention, to be held this year at the University of Wollongong, conference titles such as "Networks of Normality: Rethinking (Anti) Normativity in Contemporary Critical Theory" were grist for the mill. Other sessions have titles such as "Non/fictive Bodies: Fleshing out Absence/Drawing Presence".

To the "uneducated" person this is not just nonsense, this is badly written nonsense which perhaps underscores the rising disconnect between some avenues of academia and the rest of us.

If we find it difficult to face up to the reality that our university system is letting its students down, perhaps it is because many of us have a nostalgic and romantic perception of the experience of "higher education". Some may wistfully imagine the sandstone spires at Trinity College, with bright-eyed youngsters spending hours on the lawns or in their teachers' offices discussing their tutorial topics and latest grand theories.

But this dream bears little resemblance with the modern-day reality. Rather, a university campus is more likely to have a Starbucks than a sandstone spire. Teachers are too overloaded with administrative tasks to have much time for their students. And students themselves are too busy scrambling to pay the rent than to think about current events or new ideas.

Nor is the experience leisurely. Five years ago, research led by Helen Stallman of the University of Queensland found Australian university students suffered mental distress that were at rates five times higher than the general population. The most common complaint from the 6000 students screened, was that they were under financial strain.

The universities have been reckless in pursuing their new "business model". There should be a clear obligation to their students to ensure their degrees are fit for purpose and they shouldn't profit from misleading students into pursuing worthless degrees.

The risks involved in opening up the universities to almost anyone who wants to attend, and then coupling that with easy to access loans from the government, are only now starting to be realised.

Many students simply do not finish their degree and end up saddled with debt.   Those who do finish are often met with the depressing reality that they are just one of thousands in a growing marketplace glut.

Universities need to start taking some responsibility for the wellbeing of their students, their success, and future employment prospects. They also need to have accountability – some skin in the game – when it comes to students' ability to repay their higher education loans. If they do not, then the smartest children of the next generation will simply decide not to attend.
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Graduates - please sir can I have some more
Reply #1 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 6:37pm
 
I have argued this for some time. What is taught in the Arts and Social Sciences have very little, if any, application outside the University. It is the fault of the Humanities Department for clinging to their anti-everything theories while the real world moves on.
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Unforgiven
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Re: Graduates - please sir can I have some more
Reply #2 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 6:59pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 6:37pm:
I have argued this for some time. What is taught in the Arts and Social Sciences have very little, if any, application outside the University. It is the fault of the Humanities Department for clinging to their anti-everything theories while the real world moves on.


The world would be a more dismal and desperate place without the contribution of graduates of Arts and Social Sciences.

This is where its now headed. Next you will have thousands of accounting graduates driving buses.
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: Graduates - please sir can I have some more
Reply #3 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 8:46pm
 
Where do Arts graduates create employment?
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Unforgiven
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Re: Graduates - please sir can I have some more
Reply #4 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 10:10pm
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 8:46pm:
Where do Arts graduates create employment?


Evidently nowhere where you set foot.
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Bobby.
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Re: Graduates - please sir can I have some more
Reply #5 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 11:26pm
 
Australia is in real trouble because we have spent the last 20 years flipping houses
to each other instead of building industry.

That's why there is a shortage of jobs for university graduates.

Also - degrees have been dumbed down:
You used to have to be a real intellectual to get a degree back in the 70's
but now the girl in milk bar has one or even 2 degrees.
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Unforgiven
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Re: Graduates - please sir can I have some more
Reply #6 - Jul 2nd, 2015 at 11:46pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 11:26pm:
Australia is in real trouble because we have spent the last 20 years flipping houses
to each other instead of building industry.

That's why there is a shortage of jobs for university graduates.

Also - degrees have been dumbed down:
You used to have to be a real intellectual to get a degree back in the 70's
but now the girl in milk bar has one or even 2 degrees.


She works for a guy who votes liberal and has the IQ of a brick. Like Culture Warrior.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Graduates - please sir can I have some more
Reply #7 - Jul 3rd, 2015 at 4:13am
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 6:37pm:
I have argued this for some time. What is taught in the Arts and Social Sciences have very little, if any, application outside the University. It is the fault of the Humanities Department for clinging to their anti-everything theories while the real world moves on.



Well, well... I've argued this for ages... we agree.... but not only in the Humanities arena - the over-supply of 'educated' people who expect the easy ride and the soft job and big salary has created a nightmare for employment of the many, and has lead us to a society where those with immense ability but without this piece of paper suffer outrageously in terms of promotion and even employment.

Thet thar book larnin' ain't never made a good Pre-zee-dent yet!  Look at Abraham Lincoln, an eddicated lawyer - an' the way he ROONED The Old South!
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Re: Graduates - please sir can I have some more
Reply #8 - Jul 3rd, 2015 at 4:16am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 6:59pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 6:37pm:
I have argued this for some time. What is taught in the Arts and Social Sciences have very little, if any, application outside the University. It is the fault of the Humanities Department for clinging to their anti-everything theories while the real world moves on.


The world would be a more dismal and desperate place without the contribution of graduates of Arts and Social Sciences.

This is where its now headed. Next you will have thousands of accounting graduates driving buses.


Yeah - just think we'd have no feminism, no multi-culturalism, no affirmative action, no lowest PCA in the world, no insane domestic violence laws that not only generate violence but ARE violence ... wow - just about every Ism and destructive and negative influence on modern society would never have drawn breath....
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Graduates - please sir can I have some more
Reply #9 - Jul 3rd, 2015 at 8:46am
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 8:46pm:
Where do Arts graduates create employment?


MacDonalds??
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Sir lastnail
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Re: Graduates - please sir can I have some more
Reply #10 - Jul 3rd, 2015 at 10:17am
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 6:37pm:
I have argued this for some time. What is taught in the Arts and Social Sciences have very little, if any, application outside the University. It is the fault of the Humanities Department for clinging to their anti-everything theories while the real world moves on.


The arts usually gets you a job in the public service Wink

Forget about University degrees - there are plenty of jobs for graduates in real estate. It's the only game in town where the government continuously meddles in it to prop it up !!
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Sir lastnail
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Re: Graduates - please sir can I have some more
Reply #11 - Jul 3rd, 2015 at 10:27am
 
Bobby. wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 11:26pm:
Australia is in real trouble because we have spent the last 20 years flipping houses
to each other instead of building industry.

That's why there is a shortage of jobs for university graduates.

Also - degrees have been dumbed down:
You used to have to be a real intellectual to get a degree back in the 70's
but now the girl in milk bar has one or even 2 degrees.


What about the chick on masterchef who had 4 and a half degrees because she wasn't satisfied with any of her careers and now she wants to become a chef - one of the most stressful and sh.t jobs you could ever take on !!

Bobby is right ! Over decades we have siphoned funds away from productive to non productive industries such as real estate so most of these University degrees are just academic exercises rather than something that can be applied in the real world of Australia. The fools in canberra set this country up to fail decades ago when they chose real estate as the only career path for our youth Sad
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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bogarde73
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Re: Graduates - please sir can I have some more
Reply #12 - Jul 3rd, 2015 at 10:31am
 
Unforgiven wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 6:59pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 6:37pm:
I have argued this for some time. What is taught in the Arts and Social Sciences have very little, if any, application outside the University. It is the fault of the Humanities Department for clinging to their anti-everything theories while the real world moves on.


The world would be a more dismal and desperate place without the contribution of graduates of Arts and Social Sciences.

This is where its now headed. Next you will have thousands of accounting graduates driving buses.


Your first point was the critical one Unforgiven. The university population has outgrown the market for its product. A number of factors have led to this result: the disappearing market for school leavers, the availability of HECS (a slow-growing cancer like credit 50 years ago), the expectations of students & their parents alike, and more.
But exterminating the social sciences is not a solution. Thinkers, philosophers, anthropologists, archaeologists, linguists, historians and the rest are all essential in our world. Accountants & MBA's are a necessary evil as long as their evil is kept well under control.

PS I am prepared to forgive almost everything for someone with the taste to use Mr Bean as his avatar . . . for a while.
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Sir lastnail
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Re: Graduates - please sir can I have some more
Reply #13 - Jul 3rd, 2015 at 11:01am
 
bogarde73 wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 10:31am:
Unforgiven wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 6:59pm:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 6:37pm:
I have argued this for some time. What is taught in the Arts and Social Sciences have very little, if any, application outside the University. It is the fault of the Humanities Department for clinging to their anti-everything theories while the real world moves on.


The world would be a more dismal and desperate place without the contribution of graduates of Arts and Social Sciences.

This is where its now headed. Next you will have thousands of accounting graduates driving buses.


Your first point was the critical one Unforgiven. The university population has outgrown the market for its product. A number of factors have led to this result: the disappearing market for school leavers, the availability of HECS (a slow-growing cancer like credit 50 years ago), the expectations of students & their parents alike, and more.
But exterminating the social sciences is not a solution. Thinkers, philosophers, anthropologists, archaeologists, linguists, historians and the rest are all essential in our world. Accountants & MBA's are a necessary evil as long as their evil is kept well under control.

PS I am prepared to forgive almost everything for someone with the taste to use Mr Bean as his avatar . . . for a while.


If you want to see how all of this pans out in the future then just look at greece. Dentists driving taxis !!
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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.
 
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Re: Graduates - please sir can I have some more
Reply #14 - Jul 3rd, 2015 at 11:08am
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Jul 3rd, 2015 at 10:17am:
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 2nd, 2015 at 6:37pm:
I have argued this for some time. What is taught in the Arts and Social Sciences have very little, if any, application outside the University. It is the fault of the Humanities Department for clinging to their anti-everything theories while the real world moves on.


The arts usually gets you a job in the public service Wink

Forget about University degrees - there are plenty of jobs for graduates in real estate. It's the only game in town where the government continuously meddles in it to prop it up !!


A public service which firstly shot itself in the foot by employing degrees first instead of lifters, and then started cutting itself off at the knees as it is doing now.

The university system was always going to outgrow its market one day - you can't have every second person holding a degree, meaning they have spent 3-4 years or more not learning how to work - then expecting to fall into a fine cushy job will all perks, while excluding countless capable people who don't hold a degree for whatever reason.

As before, I come from a generation where people in the boss' seat had more of an understanding of people and their capabilities.. and not just their resume` etc.  remember my favourite story - I walked into a room for an interview by two Commando officers, and within five minutes was selected for a one-man operation.  These people KNEW what to look for and what was needed.... the first CO of 3RAR in Korea had less than a High School education and is revered as a leader.

The list goes on and on.  Over-emphasis on academia has allowed this country to shoot itself in the foot, and has given us the likes of Abbott, Hockey, Gillard, Rudd and Hicks (listed here as the archetypical rapist of resources whom we now invite in and entertain royally while paying double for our product ).... not one of whom you would put your hand in the fire for....
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« Last Edit: Jul 3rd, 2015 at 11:15am by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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