Australian Politics Forum - PUP to sue Lambie and Lazarus

Aussie

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PUP to sue Lambie and Lazarus
Apr 1^st, 2015 at 11:47am

Can't really say I can blame PUP.

Link.

Quote:

“The Palmer United Party relied on Glenn Lazarus’ and Jacqui Lambie’s promise when they sought endorsement to represent the party at the 2013 Senate election, that if elected they would represent Palmer United in the Senate for their six-year term.

“Relying on those promises, the party spent millions of dollars and thousands of party supporters worked hard to get Mr Lazarus and Ms Lambie elected.

“They have now broken their promises and the party will seek to recover in the courts, under the principle of promissory estoppel, those party funds,’’ he said.

“Both have shown themselves to be opportunists seeking to use the party resources for themselves deceptively. They have acted unreliably and have proven to be untrustworthy.”

Where is the logical (forget legal) error in that?

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 37678 Gender:	Re: PUP to sue Lambie and Lazarus Reply #1 - Apr 1^st, 2015 at 11:49am I suspect this a shot across their bows.....neither of them will have the resources to take the legal battle on.
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Swagman

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Re: PUP to sue Lambie and Lazarus
Reply #2 - Apr 1^st, 2015 at 11:51am

If you are elected under a party ticket you should not be able to continue as the MP or the Senator of that party if you resign or are expelled due to misconduct.

Lambie and Lazarus were elected because they were PUP candidates. Billy Gordon was elected because he was a Labor candidate.

The voters have been hoodwinked.

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Resolute Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 730	Re: PUP to sue Lambie and Lazarus Reply #3 - Apr 1^st, 2015 at 11:53am Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 11:49am: I suspect this a shot across their bows.....neither of them will have the resources to take the legal battle on. A bit like Humpty Dumpty and his Chinese litigants eh?
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 37678 Gender:	Re: PUP to sue Lambie and Lazarus Reply #4 - Apr 1^st, 2015 at 11:55am Resolute wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 11:53am: Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 11:49am: I suspect this a shot across their bows.....neither of them will have the resources to take the legal battle on. A bit like Humpty Dumpty and his Chinese litigants eh? Not remotely similar.
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____

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Re: PUP to sue Lambie and Lazarus
Reply #5 - Apr 1^st, 2015 at 12:25pm

This is the Clive Palmer who claimed green groups are funded by the CIA so to undermine Australia's coal industry.

And now he is calling others on honesty?

Clive also said

Quote:

"We think it (carbon levy) should be abolished from the day it is introduced, not after its first year, right," he continued. "And in doing that we think we can refund back to all the people who have been paying higher electricity prices that money."

Still waiting for that refund clive !

Quote:

Refugees is another political point of difference: "We don't think it is good sense to spend $5 billion or more every year on the naval blockade of Australia, right. We believe in a similar policy that they have in the United States and other countries, where people can board a plane, whether or not they have a visa, and then they're shuttled to the airports where there are people in facilities waiting to meet them. They are then interviewed, they are given a hearing and if they are found to not be legitimate refugees, they are put on the next plane back. You won't need detention centres, that's what every other country does in the western world. This is what the press calls a 'beat up'. It's not really an issue at all and we don't believe in separating families and mothers and children and putting them in jail, when they have done nothing."

or

Quote:

Number four concentrates on the resource and value-rich regions, (those which profit from industries such as tourism and mining) receiving at least one-quarter of the wealth they generate for their communities.

Quote:

"And the last one [difference] is we believe we should take the mineral wealth from Western Australia and Queensland and develop processing industries in New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania, so that we can create more jobs."

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/palmers-party-to-right-the-wrongs-right-2013...

So is clive really throwing stones concerning promises while hiding in a glasshouse.
Not that well thought out clive !

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Aussie

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Re: PUP to sue Lambie and Lazarus
Reply #6 - Apr 1^st, 2015 at 12:34pm

____ wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 12:25pm:

This is the Clive Palmer who claimed green groups are funded by the CIA so to undermine Australia's coal industry.

And now he is calling others on honesty?

Clive also said

Quote:

"We think it (carbon levy) should be abolished from the day it is introduced, not after its first year, right," he continued. "And in doing that we think we can refund back to all the people who have been paying higher electricity prices that money."

Still waiting for that refund clive !

Quote:

Refugees is another political point of difference: "We don't think it is good sense to spend $5 billion or more every year on the naval blockade of Australia, right. We believe in a similar policy that they have in the United States and other countries, where people can board a plane, whether or not they have a visa, and then they're shuttled to the airports where there are people in facilities waiting to meet them. They are then interviewed, they are given a hearing and if they are found to not be legitimate refugees, they are put on the next plane back. You won't need detention centres, that's what every other country does in the western world. This is what the press calls a 'beat up'. It's not really an issue at all and we don't believe in separating families and mothers and children and putting them in jail, when they have done nothing."

or

Quote:

Number four concentrates on the resource and value-rich regions, (those which profit from industries such as tourism and mining) receiving at least one-quarter of the wealth they generate for their communities.

Quote:

"And the last one [difference] is we believe we should take the mineral wealth from Western Australia and Queensland and develop processing industries in New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania, so that we can create more jobs."

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/palmers-party-to-right-the-wrongs-right-2013...

So is clive really throwing stones concerning election promises to the people who voted for PUP while hiding in a glasshouse.

Not that well thought out clive !

It is true that PUP went into the elections with those policies you mentioned. However, given that the result of the election could hardly be called a mandate for PUP to insist on everything and stand in the way of Government....they have chosen the obvious path of negotiation and compromise to get close to what they want. "Can't win the War, but can win a couple of battles." That's politics. What Lambie and Lazarus has done is use the resources and colour and brand of PUP to get elected....and then dump on that to rid themself of any responsibility to the people who voted PUP but keep the salary and other perks on a personal basis. Fact is they occupy PUP seats in the Senate.

Nah.

This is an issue on which PUP is correct, IMHO.

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Rider Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2669 OnTheRoad Gender:	Re: PUP to sue Lambie and Lazarus Reply #7 - Apr 1^st, 2015 at 12:42pm Lie down with dogs, you will get up with fleas. Hideous bloated creature.
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____

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Re: PUP to sue Lambie and Lazarus
Reply #8 - Apr 1^st, 2015 at 12:44pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 12:34pm:

____ wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 12:25pm:

This is the Clive Palmer who claimed green groups are funded by the CIA so to undermine Australia's coal industry.

And now he is calling others on honesty?

Clive also said

Quote:

"We think it (carbon levy) should be abolished from the day it is introduced, not after its first year, right," he continued. "And in doing that we think we can refund back to all the people who have been paying higher electricity prices that money."

Still waiting for that refund clive !

Quote:

Refugees is another political point of difference: "We don't think it is good sense to spend $5 billion or more every year on the naval blockade of Australia, right. We believe in a similar policy that they have in the United States and other countries, where people can board a plane, whether or not they have a visa, and then they're shuttled to the airports where there are people in facilities waiting to meet them. They are then interviewed, they are given a hearing and if they are found to not be legitimate refugees, they are put on the next plane back. You won't need detention centres, that's what every other country does in the western world. This is what the press calls a 'beat up'. It's not really an issue at all and we don't believe in separating families and mothers and children and putting them in jail, when they have done nothing."

or

Quote:

Number four concentrates on the resource and value-rich regions, (those which profit from industries such as tourism and mining) receiving at least one-quarter of the wealth they generate for their communities.

Quote:

"And the last one [difference] is we believe we should take the mineral wealth from Western Australia and Queensland and develop processing industries in New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania, so that we can create more jobs."

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/palmers-party-to-right-the-wrongs-right-2013...

So is clive really throwing stones concerning election promises to the people who voted for PUP while hiding in a glasshouse.

Not that well thought out clive !

It is true that PUP went into the elections with those policies you mentioned. However, given that the result of the election could hardly be called a mandate for PUP to insist on everything and stand in the way of Government....they have chosen the obvious path of negotiation and compromise to get close to what they want. "Can't win the War, but can win a couple of battles." That's politics. What Lambie and Lazarus has done is use the resources and colour and brand of PUP to get elected....and then dump on that to rid themself of any responsibility to the people who voted PUP but keep the salary and other perks on a personal basis. Fact is they occupy PUP seats in the Senate.

Nah.

This is an issue on which PUP is correct, IMHO.

You say pup have won a couple of battles, like to elaborate on those couple?

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____ Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 33410 Australia Gender:	Re: PUP to sue Lambie and Lazarus Reply #9 - Apr 1^st, 2015 at 12:44pm Rider wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 12:42pm: Lie down with dogs, you will get up with fleas. Hideous bloated creature.
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Sprintcyclist

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Re: PUP to sue Lambie and Lazarus
Reply #10 - Apr 1^st, 2015 at 12:44pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 11:47am:

Can't really say I can blame PUP.

Link.

Quote:

“The Palmer United Party relied on Glenn Lazarus’ and Jacqui Lambie’s promise when they sought endorsement to represent the party at the 2013 Senate election, that if elected they would represent Palmer United in the Senate for their six-year term.

“Relying on those promises, the party spent millions of dollars and thousands of party supporters worked hard to get Mr Lazarus and Ms Lambie elected.

“They have now broken their promises and the party will seek to recover in the courts, under the principle of promissory estoppel, those party funds,’’ he said.

“Both have shown themselves to be opportunists seeking to use the party resources for themselves deceptively. They have acted unreliably and have proven to be untrustworthy.”

Where is the logical (forget legal) error in that?

These 'promises' would have to be in a contract.
Then, noone could be held to be a serf for 6 years .
The senate is meant to be a place of morale judgment.
If a senator finds they cannot work with a party, they cannot morally do that.

It was up to PUP what they spent on who.
That was their decision.

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: PUP to sue Lambie and Lazarus
Reply #11 - Apr 1^st, 2015 at 1:00pm

Swagman wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 11:51am:

If you are elected under a party ticket you should not be able to continue as the MP or the Senator of that party if you resign or are expelled due to misconduct.

Lambie and Lazarus were elected because they were PUP candidates. Billy Gordon was elected because he was a Labor candidate.

The voters have been hoodwinked.

Add this to the long list of other undemocratic features of this undemocratic system of ours.

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Aussie

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Re: PUP to sue Lambie and Lazarus
Reply #12 - Apr 1^st, 2015 at 1:11pm

____ wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 12:44pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 12:34pm:

____ wrote on Apr 1^st, 2015 at 12:25pm:

This is the Clive Palmer who claimed green groups are funded by the CIA so to undermine Australia's coal industry.

And now he is calling others on honesty?

Clive also said

Quote:

"We think it (carbon levy) should be abolished from the day it is introduced, not after its first year, right," he continued. "And in doing that we think we can refund back to all the people who have been paying higher electricity prices that money."

Still waiting for that refund clive !

Quote:

Refugees is another political point of difference: "We don't think it is good sense to spend $5 billion or more every year on the naval blockade of Australia, right. We believe in a similar policy that they have in the United States and other countries, where people can board a plane, whether or not they have a visa, and then they're shuttled to the airports where there are people in facilities waiting to meet them. They are then interviewed, they are given a hearing and if they are found to not be legitimate refugees, they are put on the next plane back. You won't need detention centres, that's what every other country does in the western world. This is what the press calls a 'beat up'. It's not really an issue at all and we don't believe in separating families and mothers and children and putting them in jail, when they have done nothing."

or

Quote:

Number four concentrates on the resource and value-rich regions, (those which profit from industries such as tourism and mining) receiving at least one-quarter of the wealth they generate for their communities.

Quote:

"And the last one [difference] is we believe we should take the mineral wealth from Western Australia and Queensland and develop processing industries in New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania, so that we can create more jobs."

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/palmers-party-to-right-the-wrongs-right-2013...

So is clive really throwing stones concerning election promises to the people who voted for PUP while hiding in a glasshouse.

Not that well thought out clive !

It is true that PUP went into the elections with those policies you mentioned. However, given that the result of the election could hardly be called a mandate for PUP to insist on everything and stand in the way of Government....they have chosen the obvious path of negotiation and compromise to get close to what they want. "Can't win the War, but can win a couple of battles." That's politics. What Lambie and Lazarus has done is use the resources and colour and brand of PUP to get elected....and then dump on that to rid themself of any responsibility to the people who voted PUP but keep the salary and other perks on a personal basis. Fact is they occupy PUP seats in the Senate.

Nah.

This is an issue on which PUP is correct, IMHO.

You say pup have won a couple of battles, like to elaborate on those couple?

You can google as well as I can. Doctor co-payment, Uni fees will do off the cuff.

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innocentbystander. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4723 Gender:	Re: PUP to sue Lambie and Lazarus Reply #13 - Apr 1^st, 2015 at 1:20pm Hilarious
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Aussie

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Re: PUP to sue Lambie and Lazarus
Reply #14 - Apr 1^st, 2015 at 1:20pm

Quote:

These 'promises' would have to be in a contract.

I'm not going to get all legal about it...but the short answer is , no. The equitable relief based on estoppell is very technical but basically means that if I conduct myself on the basis of promises you have made to me, and you do not perform....then a claim can be made. It is far from as simple as that, but I trust you get the idea.

Quote:

Then, noone could be held to be a serf for 6 years .
The senate is meant to be a place of morale judgment.
If a senator finds they cannot work with a party, they cannot morally do that.

Again...that is simplistic. They were elected to those seats by PUP support, not personal support. The seats belong to PUP. If you can no longer remain part of the Party, okay fine, resign......but hand the seat back as well.

Quote:

It was up to PUP what they spent on who.
That was their decision.

True....based on expectation that the candidate would remain loyal to the Party, not take all the support and grunt it can offer to get you elected and then you dump when for example, your Wife gets sacked from her PUP admin job.

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