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Air transport to anywhere in 4 hours (Read 1831 times)
Lord Herbert
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Air transport to anywhere in 4 hours
Dec 17th, 2014 at 7:33am
 
link.

This would change Australia forever.

The biggest drawback to living in Australia is its isolation in the arse-end of the world.

The huge distances means an exhausting 24 hour trip to Europe, with another 24-hour jet-drag hangover.

But a four hour journey would change everything.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Air transport to anywhere in 4 hours
Reply #1 - Dec 17th, 2014 at 8:51pm
 
At least 15-20 years off, Herbie, if it can be built at all.  They have been talking about this plane now for about 10+ years that I'm aware of, so it's not really new news for anybody who reads the specialist aviation/defence press.

The problem is they are trying to use an air-breathing engine which condenses liquid oxygen as it flies through the air and then it injects the liquid oxygen into the engine as it passes out of the atmosphere.   Fine in theory, astoundingly difficult thus far with today's technology.  It makes sense, in that the aircraft doesn't have to take off carrying heavy liquid oxygen and can essentially manufacture half its fuel while in flight, with the result that it can utilise normal jet fuel, as against expensive and dangerous rockets to get it into low Earth orbit.

Its just one of several unusual technologies that various companies are proposing trying to make space flight cheaper.   However, at the present moment, the only sure way remains the traditional, light blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance rockets.

Using it for sub-orbital flights would, I'm sure run into the same problems that Concorde did WRT to noise and perhaps also potential damage to the Ozone layer.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Air transport to anywhere in 4 hours
Reply #2 - Dec 18th, 2014 at 7:22am
 
The talk was all about the ramjet a few years ago. That was the big hope for fast long distance travel.

That idea seems to have gone the way of that gun that was invented by an Australian.

Metal Storm. I've never heard of it being used in combat.




The only reason the concorde failed was because it didn't turn a big enough profit to keep all the shareholders happy ~ otherwise it was a magnificent piece of technology.

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The Mole
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Re: Air transport to anywhere in 4 hours
Reply #3 - Dec 19th, 2014 at 9:17am
 
5 times the speed of sound-- I think I'll pass...air travel is becoming less safe now without more probems !
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Brian Ross
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Re: Air transport to anywhere in 4 hours
Reply #4 - Dec 19th, 2014 at 5:06pm
 
Personally, I'd look much more towards the return of either Airships or cheap Ocean Liner travel.   I'm less interested and less inclined to be stuffed into a metal cylinder with someone's knees in the middle of my back for a day than I am in sedately looking at the scenery and enjoying the trip.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Air transport to anywhere in 4 hours
Reply #5 - Dec 19th, 2014 at 5:10pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 19th, 2014 at 5:06pm:
Personally, I'd look much more towards the return of either Airships or cheap Ocean Liner travel.   I'm less interested and less inclined to be stuffed into a metal cylinder with someone's knees in the middle of my back for a day than I am in sedately looking at the scenery and enjoying the trip.


There is a pressing need for a 4 hour trip from Australia to the UK and Europe.

I never did understand why airliners needed windows anyway. I'd much prefer not to see the engine outside my window catch fire ...
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Brian Ross
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Re: Air transport to anywhere in 4 hours
Reply #6 - Dec 20th, 2014 at 12:50pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 18th, 2014 at 7:22am:
The talk was all about the ramjet a few years ago. That was the big hope for fast long distance travel.

That idea seems to have gone the way of that gun that was invented by an Australian.

Metal Storm. I've never heard of it being used in combat.




No, the problem with Metal Storm is that it is a problem looking for a solution, Herbie.

There are many things, despite the slick advertising brochures and videos that haven't been worked out very well with the concept which prevent it's adaptation from a practice point of view.

Perhaps the most basic and glaring are the issues with the ballistics.   Each round fired from a single barrel has differing ballistics and hence accuracy, Herbie.  Each round has a differing barrel length and muzzle velocity.  The result is high dispersion, particularly in those weapons that have extremely high rates of fire.

Then also the weapons that extremely high rates of fire, they appear to have no recoil absorption systems, they are rigidly mounted (usually staked to the ground).  This is OK for a proof of concept but for an operational system, particularly onboard a ship (which is where these would be most useful), that means that either some form of recoil absorption system must be created or the deck of the ship needs enormous reinforcing to absorb the recoil from the theoretical "million rounds a minute" rate of fire.  Therefore no real advantage and some real disadvantages.

Then there is the problem of changing ammunition types.  Most larger calibre automatic cannon fire differing types of ammunition to destroy different types of targets.   In most modern automatic cannon or grenade launchers they can change the ammunition fired at the flick of a switch because they have alternative loading systems.  In Metalstorm, either you change the barrel in the middle of an engagement or you're forced to carry on the one weapon, multiple barrels each with different ammunition contained therein.   That means there is a lot less weight savings than is claimed by Metalstorm (ie "No longer require complex and heavy reloading systems").    Indeed, whereas in a normal automatic cannon, the reloading is easily accomplished from under armour, in Metalstorm there appears to have been no thinking out of that problem.  Essentially you must expose yourself to enemy fire to reload the weapon (ie "change barrels").

Still a long way to go on this weapon's development and I suspect it will always remain in a specialist niche, Herbie.  It's not the panacea that Metalstorm proclaims it to be.    Roll Eyes

Quote:
The only reason the concorde failed was because it didn't turn a big enough profit to keep all the shareholders happy ~ otherwise it was a magnificent piece of technology.


It didn't turn a big enough profit because it was prohibitively expensive to operate, Herbie.   The cabin was too small so only a small number of passengers could be carried, so as the price of fuel increased, so did the cost of the seat with the result that it became too expensive except for the super rich.   The days of small aircraft, flying few passengers were long gone even by the time Concorde entered service.   This is why we are seeing the A380 enter service - massive numbers of passengers allows you to divide the cost of the fuel to ferry them around between a large number of seats and so the cost of the individual ticket comes down.

Don't get me wrong, Concorde was a huge technical achievement but it was a financial disaster.    British Airways and Air France kept them on as long as they did, purely for the prestige.   From the accounts I've read and the discussions I've had with the brother of a friend who was an Airframe Engineer on Concorde, it was generally cramped, noisy and quite often hot inside the cabin.   I've always envied him though, he used to go on test flights so has flown supersonic more often than most military pilots!  Lucky bastard!   Grin
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« Last Edit: Dec 20th, 2014 at 4:37pm by Brian Ross »  

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Lord Herbert
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Re: Air transport to anywhere in 4 hours
Reply #7 - Dec 20th, 2014 at 1:45pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 20th, 2014 at 12:50pm:
   From the accounts I've read and the discussions I've had with the brother of a friend who was an Airframe Engineer on Concorde, it was generally cramped, noisy and quite often hot inside the cabin.


This is where commonsense failed the designers.

The Concorde was not a freight carrier.

And there should have been the option for the passengers to receive a short-term knock-out pill something like the 'rape drug'.

Knocked out, and then revived for disembarkation. I've had it done to me many times. No hangovers, no regrets.

Commonsense.

I saw some airline seating arrangements on a TV doco the other day. The idiots didn't allow enough elbow-room for passengers sitting next to each other.

This amounts to criminal negligence. Utter stupidity.

The passenger with the highest level of aggressive testosterone gets to use the armrests, while the 'victims' do without. 

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Carl D
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Re: Air transport to anywhere in 4 hours
Reply #8 - Dec 21st, 2014 at 1:51am
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 19th, 2014 at 5:10pm:
There is a pressing need for a 4 hour trip from Australia to the UK and Europe.

I never did understand why airliners needed windows anyway. I'd much prefer not to see the engine outside my window catch fire ...


Or see this...

...

Shocked
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MumboJumbo
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Re: Air transport to anywhere in 4 hours
Reply #9 - Dec 23rd, 2014 at 2:47pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 20th, 2014 at 1:45pm:
receive a short-term knock-out pill something like the 'rape drug'.

Knocked out, and then revived for disembarkation. I've had it done to me many times.

With the rape drup?
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See Profile For Update wrote on Jan 3rd, 2015 at 2:58pm:
Why the bugger did I get stuck on a planet chalked full of imbeciles?
 
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Air transport to anywhere in 4 hours
Reply #10 - Dec 26th, 2014 at 2:31pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 18th, 2014 at 7:22am:
The talk was all about the ramjet a few years ago. That was the big hope for fast long distance travel.

That idea seems to have gone the way of that gun that was invented by an Australian.

Metal Storm. I've never heard of it being used in combat.




The only reason the concorde failed was because it didn't turn a big enough profit to keep all the shareholders happy ~ otherwise it was a magnificent piece of technology.




Aurora trails....... Mach 5....


I first came upon Aurora in the 1990's - in a video of TR-2s and SR-71s.. at the end was mention of the next generation... Aurora... been around twenty years now...

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« Last Edit: Dec 26th, 2014 at 2:40pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Air transport to anywhere in 4 hours
Reply #11 - Dec 26th, 2014 at 5:08pm
 
I see passenger jets in the skies over Sydney quite a lot, and the one thing that occurs to you as look at them is how incredibly slow they're travelling as they move through the ether.

They speed up a bit more later, but it's still a crawling pace of 24 hours to get to Europe.

As a service for millions who travel each year from one continent to another, that's a little pathetic to say the least.

If it was a case of 4 hours to get to Europe ~ I'd book a flight at least twice a year to have Breakfast at Tiffany's or catch the bullet train across France and Germany.

But as it is ~ I'm not interested.

24 hours tiresome travel with some fat guy overflowing into your seat ... and then 24 hours suffering the hangover of 'jet-lag'.

Can't be bothered.

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Brian Ross
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Re: Air transport to anywhere in 4 hours
Reply #12 - Dec 26th, 2014 at 5:39pm
 
You do realise, Herbie that the faster you travel, the more upset your circadian rhythm will be and therefore the worse your disorientation and "jet lag" once you arrive?   Grin

Which is why I advocate Airships and Ocean travel.  It allows your body to adjust to the changing daylight hours more easily.  Allows you to get to know your fellow passengers, allows shipboard romances to develop...  Wink
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Brian Ross
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Re: Air transport to anywhere in 4 hours
Reply #13 - Dec 26th, 2014 at 5:43pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 26th, 2014 at 2:31pm:
I first came upon Aurora in the 1990's - in a video of TR-2s and SR-71s.. at the end was mention of the next generation... Aurora... been around twenty years now...


Aurora is a myth, Grappler.  The "soap on a rope" vapour trails are just ordinary vapour trails which because of atmospheric conditions form that sort of structure.    The reality is the US just doesn't need manned reconnaissance aircraft any more.  Satellites and drones have replaced them.  The SR-71 was the last gasp of such machines.  They are too vulnerable and easily shot down.  Even the SR-71 for the last 20 years of it's service was severely limited as to where it could operate.  Advanced AD systems rendered it pretty hopeless and even the Swedes managed to intercept it on several occasions over the Baltic.   Roll Eyes
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Re: Air transport to anywhere in 4 hours
Reply #14 - Dec 26th, 2014 at 6:43pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 26th, 2014 at 5:08pm:
I see passenger jets in the skies over Sydney quite a lot, and the one thing that occurs to you as look at them is how incredibly slow they're travelling as they move through the ether.

They speed up a bit more later, but it's still a crawling pace of 24 hours to get to Europe.

As a service for millions who travel each year from one continent to another, that's a little pathetic to say the least.

If it was a case of 4 hours to get to Europe ~ I'd book a flight at least twice a year to have Breakfast at Tiffany's or catch the bullet train across France and Germany.

But as it is ~ I'm not interested.

24 hours tiresome travel with some fat guy overflowing into your seat ... and then 24 hours suffering the hangover of 'jet-lag'.

Can't be bothered.

Business class isnt too bad, I can tolerate it for the long hauls. People who travel cattle class only have themselves to blame.
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