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« Created by: philperth2010 on: Oct 28th, 2014 at 1:40pm »

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Increase in fuel excise (Read 4443 times)
St George of the Garden
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Re: Increase in fuel excise
Reply #105 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 8:16pm
 
Longy bloviated:
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But we don't have that, do we?  we have large deficits and the occasional surplus.  and the surpluses howard ran were to put towards a pot of money for hard times - just as savvy businesses do.  See the rather strong comparison?


All the surpluses Howard & Costello ran were spent the next financial year on tax cuts, pork, buying votes and the like.
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Increase in fuel excise
Reply #106 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 8:18pm
 
"People will always spend their own money far better than any Government would, we are committed - in fact we have an obligation - to ensure we return as much of their money back to them as possible"

Margaret Thatcher, 1984 Conservative Conference.

A mantra that should be followed to this day. People will ALWAYS spend their money better than big Government.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Increase in fuel excise
Reply #107 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 8:21pm
 
"I always find it rather amusing that the people who moan the loudest and tell us how taxes should be spent tend to be from the socio-economic group that pays in the least and takes the most"

AA Gill, Writer - London Times
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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Setanta
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Re: Increase in fuel excise
Reply #108 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 8:25pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 31st, 2014 at 8:18pm:
"People will always spend their own money far better than any Government would, we are committed - in fact we have an obligation - to ensure we return as much of their money back to them as possible"

Margaret Thatcher, 1984 Conservative Conference.

A mantra that should be followed to this day. People will ALWAYS spend their money better than big Government.


But they spend it on what they want, as frivolous as that may be with no regard to what is good for the country, society or planet. If we left it for people to hire their armed forces for example, how would that work? The people know best after all. It's nothing more than inane wingnut sloganeering.
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Team Froggie
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Re: Increase in fuel excise
Reply #109 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 8:30pm
 
"The English are an embarrassing and ugly race as well as a lumpen and louty, coarse, unsubtle, beady-eyed, beefy-bummed herd."

AA Gill, Writer - London Times

Wink
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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Increase in fuel excise
Reply #110 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 8:31pm
 
No you're taking that to an extreme.

My point is on taxation should be set and then worked to fund the necessities of the country.

Armed forces being a prime one to answer.

However once you have that, then a surplus indicates that we are collecting too much. Rather than add to nonsense social program spending - it is far better to return the money back to its owners - the people - by way of tax cuts and offset programmes.

You'll find many moan on tax cuts are those who don't get much back - they then seem to ignore the fact those fkers never actually paid anything in the first place.

Quite how the lower economic groups and unemployed have the nerve to moan about people getting tax back that they never paid in the first place is quite beyond me.

A Government has an obligation to ensure that once the core needs are satisfied - then the money is returned to the people.

How come the United States - which has the largest military spend in the world - is able to tax me at $10,000 less per year than my same role in Australia?
It's because a lot of the social programes which are pretty surplus to core needs are not entertained.

People should always see their money returned - which they will then spend and circulate in the economy in the free market capitalist fashion that we so encourage around the world.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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Setanta
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Re: Increase in fuel excise
Reply #111 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 9:12pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 31st, 2014 at 8:31pm:
No you're taking that to an extreme.

My point is on taxation should be set and then worked to fund the necessities of the country.

Armed forces being a prime one to answer.

However once you have that, then a surplus indicates that we are collecting too much. Rather than add to nonsense social program spending - it is far better to return the money back to its owners - the people - by way of tax cuts and offset programmes.

You'll find many moan on tax cuts are those who don't get much back - they then seem to ignore the fact those fkers never actually paid anything in the first place.

Quite how the lower economic groups and unemployed have the nerve to moan about people getting tax back that they never paid in the first place is quite beyond me.

A Government has an obligation to ensure that once the core needs are satisfied - then the money is returned to the people.

How come the United States - which has the largest military spend in the world - is able to tax me at $10,000 less per year than my same role in Australia?
It's because a lot of the social programes which are pretty surplus to core needs are not entertained.

People should always see their money returned - which they will then spend and circulate in the economy in the free market capitalist fashion that we so encourage around the world.


The Govt are bloody well equipped to do more than defense and all things that are relied upon by the society should be in the hands of Govt. Defence/water/power/telecommunications should all be run by and for the people. The truth is people spend money foolishly.
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Re: Increase in fuel excise
Reply #112 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 9:15pm
 
Life_goes_on wrote on Oct 31st, 2014 at 5:15pm:
Isn't a rise in fuel prices a good thing?

If you're going to champion the so-called Carbon Tax, then I fail to see how you can't support a rise in the fuel excise.

Okay, I can see why the Greens don't support it - it's because they're f-ckin' idiots.


one has nothing to do with the other unless the govt. offers to put all the money raised into renewables ...

people don't mind paying for a cause, as long as that cause isn't politicians pockets
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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Re: Increase in fuel excise
Reply #113 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 9:18pm
 
Does anyone know if any other Australian government have broken more than 10 election promises in their first budget or does Abbott hold the record ?
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Re: Increase in fuel excise
Reply #114 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 9:19pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 31st, 2014 at 9:18pm:
Does anyone know if any other Australian government have broken more than 10 election promises in their first budget or does Abbott hold the record ?


Core or non core?
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philperth2010
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Re: Increase in fuel excise
Reply #115 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 9:21pm
 
That is why Howards tax benefit schemes that tax people then hand it back was such a waste of money in bloated bureaucracy, the baby bonus that pays short sighted people to have children that cannot afford them.....The tax breaks on superannuation that are more expensive than the aged pension.....Now we have Abbott with his expensive PPL scheme, Direct Action policy, Bloated military spending, Increase to the GST and indexed taxation that will increase the overall tax burden over time.....And Abbott has only been in office for one year!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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crocodile
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Re: Increase in fuel excise
Reply #116 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 10:34pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Oct 31st, 2014 at 5:32pm:
you wont get much of a job as a CEo or especially CFO if deficits (ie losses) are nothing to worry about or increases in debt.

Already one of them, but that's beside the point


1. somewhat doubtful considering your laissez-faire attitude to making a loss.  Businesses make profits and if not, are in trouble.


Good companies borrow to expand and to cover difficult times.

No ! They borrow in good times and expand. Companies aren't governments.


But companies and governments share a great deal in common, one if which is having to run a budget and service debt.


but in the end, if they aren't in surplus most fo the time they are headed for bankruptcy. 

Of course. As governments are the issuers of currency rather than the consumers there is not much use comparing a national economy to a company.


2. Of course there is.  You seem to imply that govts can spend, spend, spend and it doesn't really matter.  And the vast majority of people seem to recognise that ALL BORROWINGS bei it person business of govt have to be repaid or serviced.


Why is it whenever you mention government the idea of it running to budget just evaporates?

I don't believe I've ever said that. Running to budget does not mean must have continuous surpluses forever. Neutrality or even a small deficit is what should occur over the long term.


3. But we don't have that, do we?  we have large deficits and the occasional surplus.  and the surpluses howard ran were to put towards a pot of money for hard times - just as savvy businesses do.  See the rather strong comparison?


Ultimately, all debt has to be paid for or at least services. 

Of course but it doesn't need to paid out the national budget.


4. I am sure I must have misunderstood you.  If t a govt debt is to be serviced at all it must of course be serviced by the national budget.  Where exactly do YOU service the national debt from?

Ask the Greeks how that works out in the end!

That's plain silly. The Greeks didn't have their debt denominated in their own currency. As a sovereign nation in control of it's own floating fiat currency and with debt denominated it's own currency we don't have a "Greek" problem


5. Well that's just plain silly.  The greek currency IS the Euro and debt was denominated thus.  Or are you really silly enough to think the Greek problem would have been solved by converting to the drachma?  they ha dreached the position of being unable to service their debts ie bankruptcy.  Pure and simple.



It's getting a bit hard reading all the coloured writing.

1. Like I said, it's beside the point. Without disclosure of anonymity I can't prove it and you can't disprove it and I don't care.

2. I didn't imply that they can spend and it doesn't matter. However, as long as the accrued deficits and surpluses over the cycle does not grow ahead of trend growth, the deficits are of little importance. Not so for a private company. They do not have the same circumstances as a currency issuing sovereign nation.

3. According to the treasury documents, the net debt as of EOFY 2008 was -44 billion dollars.
http://www.budget.gov.au/2012-13/content/myefo/html/13_appendix_d.htm
The projected net debt is expected to climb to around 500 billion. The idea that the surpluses are used like a piggy bank for a rainy day is just nonsense.

4. You haven't misunderstood. Rather than answer it straight away, I'll ask you a question. If you can work it out you will have the answer. Take a few minutes to observe the two charts below. The first one is a chart of the Australian budget balance since the early '50s. The second is the government debt history since federation. I'll pick on the years after the war up to the early '70s because this period represented the longest run of deficits since the war and by far, the largest debt.

How do you suppose that a debt of 110% of GDP ( massively higher than todays ) was fully repaid by 1973 without a single budget surplus. I'll leave you to ponder on that.

5. The Greeks have zero control over the euro. You seem to be genuinely interested in this stuff. Without being flippant, a good macro textbook would be a good read.

...

...


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« Last Edit: Nov 1st, 2014 at 6:36am by crocodile »  

Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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Re: Increase in fuel excise
Reply #117 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 10:39pm
 
St George of the Garden wrote on Oct 31st, 2014 at 8:16pm:
Longy bloviated:
Quote:
But we don't have that, do we?  we have large deficits and the occasional surplus.  and the surpluses howard ran were to put towards a pot of money for hard times - just as savvy businesses do.  See the rather strong comparison?


All the surpluses Howard & Costello ran were spent the next financial year on tax cuts, pork, buying votes and the like.


I agree with you on the pork and vote buying. Both sides are pretty good at that. However, I will always welcome a tax cut. Anything surplus to requirements should be returned to the rightful owner.
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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.
 
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Bam
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Re: Increase in fuel excise
Reply #118 - Oct 31st, 2014 at 10:45pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Oct 31st, 2014 at 8:21pm:
"I always find it rather amusing that the people who moan the loudest and tell us how taxes should be spent tend to be from the socio-economic group that pays in the least and takes the most"

AA Gill, Writer - London Times

Probably because there are many dispossessed in society. They have as much right to express their opinion than anyone else.
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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Armchair_Politician
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Re: Increase in fuel excise
Reply #119 - Nov 1st, 2014 at 5:15am
 
John Smith wrote on Oct 31st, 2014 at 9:15pm:
Life_goes_on wrote on Oct 31st, 2014 at 5:15pm:
Isn't a rise in fuel prices a good thing?

If you're going to champion the so-called Carbon Tax, then I fail to see how you can't support a rise in the fuel excise.

Okay, I can see why the Greens don't support it - it's because they're f-ckin' idiots.


one has nothing to do with the other unless the govt. offers to put all the money raised into renewables ...

people don't mind paying for a cause, as long as that cause isn't politicians pockets


Did Labor put back what it collected from the carbon tax into renewables?
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Scott Morrison DID wipe the floor with Bull Shitten!!! Smiley Smiley Smiley
 
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