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« Last Modified by: Armchair_Politician on: Oct 23rd, 2014 at 5:59am »

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The left fail basic mathematics (Read 5447 times)
sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Armpit is confused, again
Reply #45 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 12:56pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 7:12am:
If one's pay does not keep up with the CPI, it is commonly known as an "effective pay cut".

It's an economic term, and has nothing to do with the 'left' or the 'right' side of politics.

Basic economic terms: "effective pay cut" and "real pay cut". Please learn the difference.




Armpit yet again showing us all how dumb he is.
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Re: The left fail basic mathematics
Reply #46 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 1:01pm
 
DaS Energy wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 12:30pm:
King FriYAY II wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:28am:
What TF is Extra Recreational Leave?

Where can i get me some of that?

Many here didn't get a pay rise for 2 years. We are struggling to stay profitable in a harsh and competitive environment. I didn't mind at all, the company needs the money more than me.

I bet no union dog ever thinks that way!!!


Question.

No politics just one Australian to another, would your power bill cut by at least a half help?

DaS Energy developments aren't for sale, they are given!


It sure would.

Wink
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Re: The left fail basic mathematics
Reply #47 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 1:26pm
 
John Smith wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 12:31pm:
King FriYAY II wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 12:29pm:
John Smith wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 12:27pm:
King FriYAY II wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 12:12pm:
I am one of the "bosses".


typical .... expect your staff to work for you for free?

when was the lasdt time you handed your staff a$400 - $500 each just for the sake of it?


I said I would work for free if it meant keeping the company running and people in jobs in the long term/

If you can't bother reading, just bugger off.


As the 'boss' it is your job to keep the company running, the staffs job is to do what they are 'PAID' to do. Perhaps you'd like your staff to take out a loan each so as to help with your cash flow too?

that'll help keep the busisness running won't it? Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy



What is it with you people? You come into a thread speaking crap, and when it’s pointed out to you, you come back with more incidental crap.

So me and many more that work here would put in extra hours, or work a few public holidays, or not squeal for a pay rise if it meant improvement in long term work prospects.

I feel sorry for any useless piece of crap that wouldn’t do the same.

Roll Eyes

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Re: The left fail basic mathematics
Reply #48 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 1:35pm
 
King FriYAY II wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 1:01pm:
DaS Energy wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 12:30pm:
King FriYAY II wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:28am:
What TF is Extra Recreational Leave?

Where can i get me some of that?

Many here didn't get a pay rise for 2 years. We are struggling to stay profitable in a harsh and competitive environment. I didn't mind at all, the company needs the money more than me.

I bet no union dog ever thinks that way!!!


Question.

No politics just one Australian to another, would your power bill cut by at least a half help?

DaS Energy developments aren't for sale, they are given!


It sure would.

Wink


Should you wish to talk, we happy to give fully that we know, could you PM please!
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Re: The left fail basic mathematics
Reply #49 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 3:23pm
 
King FriYAY II wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:28am:
What TF is Extra Recreational Leave?



Most genuine shift workers get an extra weeks leave as part compensation. Soldiers are effectively shift workers so they were given an extra weeks ARL.

They also get an extra day over x'mas I have no problem with this either. They can work incredible hours and they can have people shooting at them. I think they deserve to be treated very well.
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Re: The left fail basic mathematics
Reply #50 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 3:41pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 3:23pm:
King FriYAY II wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:28am:
What TF is Extra Recreational Leave?



Most genuine shift workers get an extra weeks leave as part compensation. Soldiers are effectively shift workers so they were given an extra weeks ARL.

They also get an extra day over x'mas I have no problem with this either. They can work incredible hours and they can have people shooting at them. I think they deserve to be treated very well.


Never heard of it and i know a lot of shift workers.

I thought they got compensation in the form of a shift allowance.

ERL for your average shift worker is crap IMO.

Soldiers - maybe, but not someone working at the local factory.
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Re: The left fail basic mathematics
Reply #51 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 4:05pm
 
King FriYAY II wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 3:41pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 3:23pm:
King FriYAY II wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:28am:
What TF is Extra Recreational Leave?



Most genuine shift workers get an extra weeks leave as part compensation. Soldiers are effectively shift workers so they were given an extra weeks ARL.

They also get an extra day over x'mas I have no problem with this either. They can work incredible hours and they can have people shooting at them. I think they deserve to be treated very well.


Never heard of it and i know a lot of shift workers.

I thought they got compensation in the form of a shift allowance.

ERL for your average shift worker is crap IMO.

Soldiers - maybe, but not someone working at the local factory.

I get a weeks extra leave for being a shift worker. Under my award it is because I often work on public holidays as they fall on my rostered day on. Most workers get roughly a weeks public holidays a year on top of their four weeks annual leave why shouldn't shift workers as well?
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Re: The left fail basic mathematics
Reply #52 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 4:15pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:46am:
King FriYAY II wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:28am:
What TF is Extra Recreational Leave?



"If during the year you had to work outside your usual hours, and were not given time off or extra pay, you may be granted up to five days' extra recreation leave. Leave will not usually be given unless the extra work was long and hard. You may take this leave at any time during the year."


Where does that come from, as I recall ERL has nothing to do with shift work but it was a discretionary grant for especially arduous duties, for eg troops deployed in a demanding situation might be granted days but those who remained in garrison might not.  I guess if it is removed the OC/COs grant will be utilised instead.
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Re: The left fail basic mathematics
Reply #53 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 4:31pm
 
King FriYAY II wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 3:41pm:
Dnarever wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 3:23pm:
King FriYAY II wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:28am:
What TF is Extra Recreational Leave?



Most genuine shift workers get an extra weeks leave as part compensation. Soldiers are effectively shift workers so they were given an extra weeks ARL.

They also get an extra day over x'mas I have no problem with this either. They can work incredible hours and they can have people shooting at them. I think they deserve to be treated very well.


Never heard of it and i know a lot of shift workers.

I thought they got compensation in the form of a shift allowance.

ERL for your average shift worker is crap IMO.

Soldiers - maybe, but not someone working at the local factory.


Never heard of it and i know a lot of shift workers.


It has always been there and is well deserved.

It was part of John Howards 1996 industrial relations regulation and is part of the NES leave entitlements in the fair work regulation.

I only worked shifts once without the extra weeks leave and that was with an absolutely miserable substandard  grub of an employer.
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Re: The left fail basic mathematics
Reply #54 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 5:02pm
 
A few observations -
1) Wages/benefits increases, which do not keep pace with inflation, are effectively a "pay cut".
2) Any "Effective pay cut/s", necessarily involve a "Reduction of Disposable Income". 
3) "Reductions in Disposable Income", will then result in either a "Reduction in spending on some items" &/OR an "Increase in Debt Levels", to fund a continuation of Spending.
4) Either or both, of item 4, will result in adverse reactions, within the Local Economy & that will reflect in the Global Economy, to "some" extent.
5) Either &/or both, of item 4 alternatives, can be absorbed within a Growing Economy, within a relatively short time and this has happened often in the past.
BUT, AS IS BEING SHOWN TIME & TIME AGAIN, THROUGHOUT THE GLOBAL ECONOMY, THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT & THE USUAL SHORT TERM FIXES SIMPLY ARE NOT AVAILABLE/WORKING, BECAUSE OF A NUMBER OF MAJOR GLOBAL FACTORS!
6) THOSE GLOBAL FACTORS BEING -
A) DEMOGRAPHICS - AN AGING POPULATION, WHERE POPULATION GROWTH IS ALSO  DECLINING, PRIOR TO ACTUALLY DECLINING.
B) ENERGY  - DECLINING SUPPLY & INCREASING PRICE RELATIVITY.
C) CLIMATE CHANGE - FORCING PRODUCTION DECLINES & PRICE INCREASES

As I said, THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT!


Oh & btw, both Labor & Liberal have lost the plot & they have for sometime, but they are not lonely, as there are plenty of other Politicians & Central Bankers from around the planet, who are in the same club!
Cheers!
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Re: The left fail basic mathematics
Reply #55 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 6:04pm
 
Datalife wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 4:15pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:46am:
King FriYAY II wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:28am:
What TF is Extra Recreational Leave?



"If during the year you had to work outside your usual hours, and were not given time off or extra pay, you may be granted up to five days' extra recreation leave. Leave will not usually be given unless the extra work was long and hard. You may take this leave at any time during the year."


Where does that come from, as I recall ERL has nothing to do with shift work but it was a discretionary grant for especially arduous duties, for eg troops deployed in a demanding situation might be granted days but those who remained in garrison might not.  I guess if it is removed the OC/COs grant will be utilised instead.



Member's Guide to ADF Pay and Conditions in Australia.

http://www.defence.gov.au/dpe/pac/MG_5_3.htm
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Re: The left fail basic mathematics
Reply #56 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 6:22pm
 
King FriYAY II wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 12:14pm:
Bam wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 12:05pm:
King FriYAY II wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:39am:
crocodile wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:38am:
King FriYAY II wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:28am:
What TF is Extra Recreational Leave?

Where can i get me some of that?

Many here didn't get a pay rise for 2 years. We are struggling to stay profitable in a harsh and competitive environment. I didn't mind at all, the company needs the money more than me.

I bet no union dog ever thinks that way!!!


Sorry Kingy, it's literally not your fault. A decade and a half of declining productivity growth will always end in pressure on wages.


So will decades and decades of pay rises.

So what you're saying here is that trickle down is a myth.

I've never said a thing about trickle down.

Fair enough, you didn't. Not directly, anyway.

However, your assertion that decades of pay rises puts pressure on wages makes an interesting argument against the trickle down myth. If trickle down was true, increasing pay would not add pressure.
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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.
 
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Re: The left fail basic mathematics
Reply #57 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 7:05pm
 
perceptions_now wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 5:02pm:
A few observations -
1) Wages/benefits increases, which do not keep pace with inflation, are effectively a "pay cut".
2) Any "Effective pay cut/s", necessarily involve a "Reduction of Disposable Income". 
3) "Reductions in Disposable Income", will then result in either a "Reduction in spending on some items" &/OR an "Increase in Debt Levels", to fund a continuation of Spending.
4) Either or both, of item 4, will result in adverse reactions, within the Local Economy & that will reflect in the Global Economy, to "some" extent.
5) Either &/or both, of item 4 alternatives, can be absorbed within a Growing Economy, within a relatively short time and this has happened often in the past.
BUT, AS IS BEING SHOWN TIME & TIME AGAIN, THROUGHOUT THE GLOBAL ECONOMY, THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT & THE USUAL SHORT TERM FIXES SIMPLY ARE NOT AVAILABLE/WORKING, BECAUSE OF A NUMBER OF MAJOR GLOBAL FACTORS!
6) THOSE GLOBAL FACTORS BEING -
A) DEMOGRAPHICS - AN AGING POPULATION, WHERE POPULATION GROWTH IS ALSO  DECLINING, PRIOR TO ACTUALLY DECLINING.
B) ENERGY  - DECLINING SUPPLY & INCREASING PRICE RELATIVITY.
C) CLIMATE CHANGE - FORCING PRODUCTION DECLINES & PRICE INCREASES

As I said, THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT!


Oh & btw, both Labor & Liberal have lost the plot & they have for sometime, but they are not lonely, as there are plenty of other Politicians & Central Bankers from around the planet, who are in the same club!
Cheers!

I have seen you write this same thing now for years but I've never seen you write what you think they should do instead.
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Re: The left fail basic mathematics
Reply #58 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 7:41pm
 
This time is different because the household sector is highly indebted, thanks to Howard & Costello fanning the real estate boom 2001–7. There is zero appetite for taking on more credit, even at present low interest rates. The solution is for the govt to run small deficits for some years yet. Even that probably won’t work with the shambles trash talking the economy and trying to bring in a harsh and unfair Budget.

Prepare for deflation and recession, courtesy Abbott & the shambles.
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Re: The left fail basic mathematics
Reply #59 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 7:48pm
 
skippy. wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 7:05pm:
perceptions_now wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 5:02pm:
A few observations -
1) Wages/benefits increases, which do not keep pace with inflation, are effectively a "pay cut".
2) Any "Effective pay cut/s", necessarily involve a "Reduction of Disposable Income". 
3) "Reductions in Disposable Income", will then result in either a "Reduction in spending on some items" &/OR an "Increase in Debt Levels", to fund a continuation of Spending.
4) Either or both, of item 4, will result in adverse reactions, within the Local Economy & that will reflect in the Global Economy, to "some" extent.
5) Either &/or both, of item 4 alternatives, can be absorbed within a Growing Economy, within a relatively short time and this has happened often in the past.
BUT, AS IS BEING SHOWN TIME & TIME AGAIN, THROUGHOUT THE GLOBAL ECONOMY, THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT & THE USUAL SHORT TERM FIXES SIMPLY ARE NOT AVAILABLE/WORKING, BECAUSE OF A NUMBER OF MAJOR GLOBAL FACTORS!
6) THOSE GLOBAL FACTORS BEING -
A) DEMOGRAPHICS - AN AGING POPULATION, WHERE POPULATION GROWTH IS ALSO  DECLINING, PRIOR TO ACTUALLY DECLINING.
B) ENERGY  - DECLINING SUPPLY & INCREASING PRICE RELATIVITY.
C) CLIMATE CHANGE - FORCING PRODUCTION DECLINES & PRICE INCREASES

As I said, THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT!


Oh & btw, both Labor & Liberal have lost the plot & they have for sometime, but they are not lonely, as there are plenty of other Politicians & Central Bankers from around the planet, who are in the same club!
Cheers!

I have seen you write this same thing now for years but I've never seen you write what you think they should do instead.


Actually, I have.

But now, it's pretty much well past time for taking any effective action/s.

All of what was needed, should have been actioned over the last 20-40 years AND the actions would have been required over the larger part of the Global Economy, as well as more here!

Even now, it may not be too late, to take decisive action, to reduce the size of the problem, But now it would only be a slight reduce, rather than a slight worsening, IF the correct Local & Global actions had been started going back all those years.

That said, the correct actions, needed to address those major Global Risk Factors, which are now the basic causal factors behind current  events, those being -
A) DEMOGRAPHICS - AN AGING POPULATION, WHERE POPULATION GROWTH IS ALSO  DECLINING, PRIOR TO ACTUALLY DECLINING.
B) ENERGY  - DECLINING SUPPLY & INCREASING PRICE RELATIVITY.
C) CLIMATE CHANGE - FORCING PRODUCTION DECLINES & PRICE INCREASES

All of which have combined to force the Global Economy into historic  Debt levels and which we now, can not escape, because we didn't start when we should have. We should have started long ago, by retaining higher & fairer Taxes, particularly on the top 10% & we should not have gone quite so deep into providing benefits, unless they were definitely warranted, they were fair & they ensued that those who didn't need them, didn't get them.

So, in basic terms and these would certainly have impacted Global Economics into a much slower Growth rate And THE TOP 10% WOULD CERTAINLY NOW BE NO WHERE NEAR AS WELL OFF -
1) Demographic levels should have been leveled off, much sooner & that would have leveled off Demand for many Products & Services.
2) One of the Products which would then have had it's life span extended would have been Fossil Fuels (Oil in particular) and that would have given more time to change away from a Global Economy based on Fossil Fuels
3) BUT, we would still have needed the will of TPTB, to actually change away from Fossil Fuels, towards something that would be more sustainable, for the Global Climate, in the longer term.

UNFORTUNATELY, GREED HAS GOT IN THE WAY, FOR TPTB & FOR THE POLITICIANS (BOTH RIGHT & LEFT) AND THEY ALL LOOKED AT THEIR OWN SHORT TERM GAINS, NONE OF THEM LOOKED AT THE BEST, LONG TERM INTERESTS OF ALL!

Hopefully, that helps, a little?

Cheers!    
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