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Anti-vaccinationists (Read 9645 times)
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Re: Anti-vaccinationists
Reply #30 - Oct 21st, 2014 at 8:24am
 
gone wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 4:02am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 12:49am:
Another question for the anti-Vaccinationists.

If they or a loved one was bitten by a venomous animal, say a snake or a spider or a jellyfish here in Australia would they refuse the anti-Venom knowing how they are manufactured?

Afterall, the manufacture of anti-Venom is done thusly:
Quote:
Antivenom is created by milking venom from the desired snake, spider or insect. The venom is then diluted and injected into a horse, sheep, rabbit, or goat. The subject animal will undergo an immune response to the venom, producing antibodies against the venom's active molecule which can then be harvested from the animal's blood and used to treat envenomation.

[Source]

Effectively, anti-Venoms are the results of a similar biological process to Vaccination.   The animal produces antibodies after being infected (envenomed?)  with the venom.  Surely, if Vaccination did not work, as is claimed by the anti-Vaccinationists, then anti-Venom would not work.

So, which anti-Vaccinationist will stand by their claims, step forward and allow themselves to be bitten by say, a Taipan snake and then refuse the anti-Venom?   Anyone?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Oh, please  Roll Eyes Venom is completely different than a virus. And anti venom is completely different than vaccine. A ridiculous comparison. You're running out out arguments.  Grin




INstead of just stating its a ridiculous comparison, could you please point to scientific, logical reasons why its different.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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Re: Anti-vaccinationists
Reply #31 - Oct 21st, 2014 at 8:25am
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 6:20am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 12:40am:
Comprehensive review shows no link between vaccinations and autism.  Science as usual trumps superstition.   Roll Eyes

This is not so much superstition as it is an anti-science rant.




Seems to be more of an anti-capitalism rant mixed with some conspiracy theory. Eventually most anti-vaccinationsts get down this path, since to argue against vaccinations based on science usually ends in disaster.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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Re: Anti-vaccinationists
Reply #32 - Oct 21st, 2014 at 10:27am
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Oct 21st, 2014 at 8:25am:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 6:20am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 12:40am:
Comprehensive review shows no link between vaccinations and autism.  Science as usual trumps superstition.   Roll Eyes

This is not so much superstition as it is an anti-science rant.




Seems to be more of an anti-capitalism rant mixed with some conspiracy theory. Eventually most anti-vaccinationsts get down this path, since to argue against vaccinations based on science usually ends in disaster.

Their 'proofs' against vaccination usually fall into the camps of either pseudo-science or 'intuition'.

The glaring paradox of their position is that, while they reject out of hand the science behind vaccination, they then rant about the 'certainty' of their own anti-vaccination intuition while using appeal to emotion to hammer their point.

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Re: Anti-vaccinationists
Reply #33 - Oct 21st, 2014 at 10:48am
 
gone wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 6:20pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 6:20am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 12:40am:
Comprehensive review shows no link between vaccinations and autism.  Science as usual trumps superstition.   Roll Eyes

This is not so much superstition as it is an anti-science rant.



So when they bring the Ebo-Lie vaccine to Australia, are you going to take it?  Grin


Only if there is an Ebola outbreak here, which is exceedingly unlikely.

So, if there is an Ebola outbreak in Australia will you refuse the Vaccine?

Will you travel to West Africa without being vaccinated?  Please say yes.  I do enjoy watching evolution in action.   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin
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Re: Anti-vaccinationists
Reply #34 - Oct 21st, 2014 at 6:34pm
 
http://www.naturalnews.com/038420_flu_shots_toxins_chemical_preservatives.html

'Preservative-free' vaccines and flu shots still contain deadly toxins

Thursday, December 20, 2012 by: S. D. Wells

(NaturalNews) The preservative-free lie is being perpetuated for concerned parents and health enthusiasts, so you will still go to the school, clinic, pharmacy, grocery store, or whatever other "jab shop" that administers flu shots, and get injected with toxins, even though they may have "left out" one or two of the toxins you heard or read bad things about. Maybe preservative-free means you still get the toxic preservatives, but its only trace amounts that are being injecting into your blood. Let's take the food toxin metaphor, as an example of what is going on in the "preservative-free" vaccine world. (http://vaxtruth.org/2011/08/vaccine-ingredients/)

Consider this: would you eat a meal if you knew it contained 10 toxins, but the cook said they left out the one you are allergic to? Is that enough for you to opt out of your "opt out" and go ahead and eat some cancer causing, neurological impairing toxic meal? People who are allergic to peanuts, soy, fish, and other common foods can have a deathly allergic reaction to even the smallest amounts of these ingredients, and that's just when it touches their skin or they eat a "trace" amount, so then we delve into injecting toxins in trace amounts. People who are allergic to penicillin cannot have even a trace amount of it, or they could die. So where's the logic? There is none. It's just bad business as usual for Big Pharma. (http://vaxtruth.org)

Injecting "trace amounts" of toxins

How different is it if you eat a lot of mercury, or you inject just a little? This is the argument which comes from most vaccine enthusiasts; "if it's just a trace amount, it doesn't matter." The same advice would come from the FDA, except for the fact that they consider trace amounts non-existent and they still label trace amounts of mercury as thimerosal-free. So let's do the math now. Let's add up all the heavy metals in the routine "consumption" process most go through, including flu shots, vaccines, boosters, food, water, lotions, cosmetics, deodorants and so on, and you have a major problem.

Injecting mercury, aluminum, monosodium glutamate and formaldehyde sends a massive shock wave through your system, and jolts your central nervous system. Your immune system basically "freaks out" as the toxic injection completely bypasses the digestive system all together. Add in the fact that most shots are combination shots and given in close succession, especially to children and infants, and the problems are compounded exponentially. (http://www.3aw.com.au)

The big cover up

Make no mistakes here, thimerosal is the preservative of choice for vaccine manufacturers. This practice dates back to the 1920s. Thimerosal contains nearly 50 percent mercury by weight. Mercury, or more precisely, ethylmercury, is used to kill the contaminants that can damage the vaccine; unfortunately, it kills a whole lot more when it gets in your blood and brain. (http://www.naturalnews.com)

Flu vaccines contain mercury! This is the big preservative-free lie, and it is documented. The following is from court house news (Courthouse News Service is a nationwide news service for lawyers and the news media):

Friday, March 23, 2012: "The Food and Drug Administration is not liable for approving a mercury-based vaccine preservative because more expensive, mercury-free vaccines are available upon request, a federal judge ruled. Thimerosal is a mercury-based compound that is FDA-approved as a vaccine preservative. Organizations such as the Coalition for Mercury-Free Drugs; however, have expressed concern about the preservative. As a precautionary measure, most vaccines administered to children or pregnant women do not include thimersosal, but the flu vaccine is a significant exception. Thimerosal-preserved flu vaccines are necessary to ensure sufficient supply at a reasonable price," according to the judgment." (http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/03/23/44979.htm)

An inside look at the main ingredients of "multi-jabs" (combo vaccines)

One major problem with the multi-jabs, even preservative-free ones, is that several vaccines at once enables the chance of the tiny amounts of viruses introduced by these vaccines and their genetic material to meet and "mingle." You see, then the recombination of such strains are super viruses, and can rise up later and attack the system. Still only worried about the preservatives?

Measles and Mumps Live Virus Vaccine: (M-M-Rvax) Made by Merck. Injected into one-year-old babies and contains gelatin, sorbitol, sodium chloride, bovine cow serum, and human albumin.

Diptheria, Tetanus and Polio Vaccine: Five injections given between two and six years of age, plus boosters "recommended" every 10 years. This monster jab contains formaldehyde, phenoxyethanol and aluminum phosphate.

DTaP, IPV, HBV and Hib: (Diphtheria, tetanus, polio, hepatitis B and Haemophilus influenza type B) Given to infants from two to 12 months old with boosters less than a year later. This beast of a shot contains aluminum hydroxide, formaldehyde, and bovine cow serum.

(http://news.softpedia.com)

Attention all humans, are you allergic to injecting any of the following ingredients directly into your blood?

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Re: Anti-vaccinationists
Reply #35 - Oct 21st, 2014 at 6:35pm
 
Okay, so you request the "preservative-free" flu shot or vaccine and you think you're better off than everyone else? Think again. What do all of the following "ingredients" do and why are they in the vaccines?

Bovine cow serum: Extracted from cow skin. When injected causes connective tissue disorders, arthritis and lupus; also shortness of breath, low blood pressure, chest pain and skin reactions.

Sorbitol: Synthetic sweetener which metabolizes very slowly and aggravates IBS and gastrointestinal issues.

Gelatin: Derived from the collagen inside animals' skin and bones. Injecting gelatin poses the risk of infection from synthetic growth hormones and BSE infectivity (mad cow disease).

Sodium chloride: Raises blood pressure and inhibits muscle contraction and growth.

Egg protein: Vaccines are prepared in eggs (certainly not organic). May contain growth hormones, antibiotics, and salmonella bacteria.

Thimerosal: A neurotoxic mercury which causes autism: There are 25 mcg in one average flu vaccine, and the EPA safety limit is five micrograms, so children who are vaccinated simultaneously with multiple* vaccines receive over 10 times the safety limit of mercury in one day.

Human albumin: The protein portion of blood from pooled human venous plasma; when injected causes fever, chills, hives, rash, headache, nausea, breathing difficulty, and rapid heart rate. Injecting "pooled blood" can result in a loss of body cell mass and cause immunodeficiency virus infection, or contain SV40, AIDS, cancer or Hepatitis B from drug addicts.

Formaldehyde: Highly carcinogenic fluid used to embalm corpses. Ranked one of the most hazardous compounds to human health; can cause liver damage, gastrointestinal issues, reproductive deformation, respiratory distress and cancer. Plus, formaldehyde has been known to fail to deactivate the virus the vaccine is intended to cure, thus enabling a live virus to enter your blood and infect your system.

Phenoxyethanol: A glycol ether/chemical; highly toxic to the nervous system, kidneys, and liver. The FDA warns "can cause shut down of the central nervous system (CNS), vomiting and contact dermatitis" in cosmetics; imagine when injected into your blood.

Aluminum phosphate: Greatly increases toxicity of mercury, so caution about minimum mercury tolerance is therefore severely underestimated. CDC scientists and all doctors are well aware of this.

MSG (monosodium glutamate): When injected becomes a neurotoxin, causing CNS disorders and brain damage in children. (http://www.naturalnews.com/030868_vaccines_autism.html)

"Preservative-free" still gives you a 150 percent dose of FDA/EPA maximum

According to the CDC, vaccines labeled "thimerosal-free" often have a little asterisk to warn you: "This vaccine has 'trace' amounts of thimerosal, which the FDA says is equivalent to thimerosal-free products." There are basically two kinds of flu shots given: one contains 25 mcg of mercury and is often given as the "regular" flu shot to those with no special circumstances, and the other is labeled "thimerasol-free" (containing fewer than 3mcg of mercury) and is given to young children and pregnant women.

Take a look at "safe" and "un-safe" levels of mercury, per the FDA/EPA:
Two part per billion is the maximum amount of mercury that deems water "safe" for drinking. Anything over 200 ppb mercury is considered TOXIC. But guess what?

There is up to 300 ppb mercury in the "thimerosal-free" flu vaccine. There is 25,000 ppb mercury given in the regular flu shot. (http://www.naturalnews.com)

The Department of Defense classifies mercury as a hazardous material that could cause death if swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through the skin. Studies indicate that mercury tends to accumulate in the brains of primates and other animals after they are injected with vaccines. Mercury poisoning has been linked to cardiovascular disease, autism, seizures, mental retardation, hyperactivity, dyslexia and many other nervous system conditions.
(http://www.matchdoctor.com)

Want to protect your immune system? Leave out all the toxins. That's step number one. Especially leave out GMO, mercury, MSG and Aspartame. Step two? Look into Colloidal silver, Superfoods, mushroom powders, licorice root, garlic supplements, oil of oregano, cinnamon and much more. (http://store.naturalnews.com/Immunity-Response_c_11.html)

Sources for this article include:

http://vaxtruth.org

http://www.matchdoctor.com

http://www.naturalnews.com

http://www.3aw.com.au

http://www.naturalnews.com/030868_vaccines_autism.html

http://vaxtruth.org/2011/08/vaccine-ingredients/

http://news.softpedia.com

http://www.naturalnews.com
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ॐ May Much LOVE and CHRISTS LIGHT be upon and within us all.... namasté ▲ - : )  ╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯
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Re: Anti-vaccinationists
Reply #36 - Oct 21st, 2014 at 9:40pm
 
Wheres Mike Adams HPLC results.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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Re: Anti-vaccinationists
Reply #37 - Oct 22nd, 2014 at 12:12am
 
gone wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 4:02am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 12:49am:
Another question for the anti-Vaccinationists.

If they or a loved one was bitten by a venomous animal, say a snake or a spider or a jellyfish here in Australia would they refuse the anti-Venom knowing how they are manufactured?

Afterall, the manufacture of anti-Venom is done thusly:
Quote:
Antivenom is created by milking venom from the desired snake, spider or insect. The venom is then diluted and injected into a horse, sheep, rabbit, or goat. The subject animal will undergo an immune response to the venom, producing antibodies against the venom's active molecule which can then be harvested from the animal's blood and used to treat envenomation.

[Source]

Effectively, anti-Venoms are the results of a similar biological process to Vaccination.   The animal produces antibodies after being infected (envenomed?)  with the venom.  Surely, if Vaccination did not work, as is claimed by the anti-Vaccinationists, then anti-Venom would not work.

So, which anti-Vaccinationist will stand by their claims, step forward and allow themselves to be bitten by say, a Taipan snake and then refuse the anti-Venom?   Anyone?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Oh, please  Roll Eyes Venom is completely different than a virus. And anti venom is completely different than vaccine. A ridiculous comparison. You're running out out arguments.  Grin


Anti-Venom is produced in exactly the same way as antibodies to virii are produced, Eagle-eye by injection of small quantities of the Venom to make the body respond to it.

If anti-Venom works, why don't Vaccines?   Roll Eyes

You have yet to produce an adequate explanation of why mass-vaccination campaigns have destroyed Smallpox and will soon destroy Polio.    Roll Eyes
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Anti-vaccinationists
Reply #38 - Oct 22nd, 2014 at 12:14am
 
gone wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 4:09am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 19th, 2014 at 12:37am:
I see no explanation for why Smallpox has been eliminated from those third world nations which don't have first world sanitation but where mass vaccination campaigns have been mounted. 

Vaccines have beaten back global diseases such as smallpox and polio


I gave you the explanation. Read above.


Where?  The claim about media lying about it?

How do you account for the academic papers which prove vaccines work through epidemiological studies?   Roll Eyes
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Anti-vaccinationists
Reply #39 - Oct 22nd, 2014 at 2:52am
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 6:30pm:
gone wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 6:20pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 6:20am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 12:40am:
Comprehensive review shows no link between vaccinations and autism.  Science as usual trumps superstition.   Roll Eyes

This is not so much superstition as it is an anti-science rant.



So when they bring the Ebo-Lie vaccine to Australia, are you going to take it?  Grin




Depends, I'd say at this stage no need to, since it isnt here.  The vaccine isn't for us, its for Africans.


You are not well informed. I read media from all over the world in two languages. I can guarantee you that the pharma giants want to sell their vaccines all over the world, including Australia. They are preparing the marketing campaign as we speak...Soon the media will pump out the propaganda and make you believe that you need it...And the government will buy them. After all, the pharma giants want your tax dollars...
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Re: Anti-vaccinationists
Reply #40 - Oct 22nd, 2014 at 3:40am
 
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Oct 21st, 2014 at 8:24am:
gone wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 4:02am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 12:49am:
Another question for the anti-Vaccinationists.

If they or a loved one was bitten by a venomous animal, say a snake or a spider or a jellyfish here in Australia would they refuse the anti-Venom knowing how they are manufactured?

Afterall, the manufacture of anti-Venom is done thusly:
Quote:
Antivenom is created by milking venom from the desired snake, spider or insect. The venom is then diluted and injected into a horse, sheep, rabbit, or goat. The subject animal will undergo an immune response to the venom, producing antibodies against the venom's active molecule which can then be harvested from the animal's blood and used to treat envenomation.

[Source]

Effectively, anti-Venoms are the results of a similar biological process to Vaccination.   The animal produces antibodies after being infected (envenomed?)  with the venom.  Surely, if Vaccination did not work, as is claimed by the anti-Vaccinationists, then anti-Venom would not work.

So, which anti-Vaccinationist will stand by their claims, step forward and allow themselves to be bitten by say, a Taipan snake and then refuse the anti-Venom?   Anyone?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Oh, please  Roll Eyes Venom is completely different than a virus. And anti venom is completely different than vaccine. A ridiculous comparison. You're running out out arguments.  Grin




INstead of just stating its a ridiculous comparison, could you please point to scientific, logical reasons why its different.


Venom is a dead chemical. A virus is a live organism that multiplies...
Antivenom neutralizes venom. If it would immunize, then - once taken - you could get bitten by the same snake over and over again and you wouldn't get sick. Now that would be cool.  Grin 
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Re: Anti-vaccinationists
Reply #41 - Oct 22nd, 2014 at 8:36am
 
gone wrote on Oct 22nd, 2014 at 2:52am:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 6:30pm:
gone wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 6:20pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 6:20am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 12:40am:
Comprehensive review shows no link between vaccinations and autism.  Science as usual trumps superstition.   Roll Eyes

This is not so much superstition as it is an anti-science rant.



So when they bring the Ebo-Lie vaccine to Australia, are you going to take it?  Grin




Depends, I'd say at this stage no need to, since it isnt here.  The vaccine isn't for us, its for Africans.


You are not well informed. I read media from all over the world in two languages. I can guarantee you that the pharma giants want to sell their vaccines all over the world, including Australia. They are preparing the marketing campaign as we speak...Soon the media will pump out the propaganda and make you believe that you need it...And the government will buy them. After all, the pharma giants want your tax dollars...



Well until the time they do, I'm going to sit here and say you're full of poo.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Re: Anti-vaccinationists
Reply #42 - Oct 22nd, 2014 at 8:37am
 
gone wrote on Oct 22nd, 2014 at 3:40am:
Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Oct 21st, 2014 at 8:24am:
gone wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 4:02am:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 20th, 2014 at 12:49am:
Another question for the anti-Vaccinationists.

If they or a loved one was bitten by a venomous animal, say a snake or a spider or a jellyfish here in Australia would they refuse the anti-Venom knowing how they are manufactured?

Afterall, the manufacture of anti-Venom is done thusly:
Quote:
Antivenom is created by milking venom from the desired snake, spider or insect. The venom is then diluted and injected into a horse, sheep, rabbit, or goat. The subject animal will undergo an immune response to the venom, producing antibodies against the venom's active molecule which can then be harvested from the animal's blood and used to treat envenomation.

[Source]

Effectively, anti-Venoms are the results of a similar biological process to Vaccination.   The animal produces antibodies after being infected (envenomed?)  with the venom.  Surely, if Vaccination did not work, as is claimed by the anti-Vaccinationists, then anti-Venom would not work.

So, which anti-Vaccinationist will stand by their claims, step forward and allow themselves to be bitten by say, a Taipan snake and then refuse the anti-Venom?   Anyone?    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Oh, please  Roll Eyes Venom is completely different than a virus. And anti venom is completely different than vaccine. A ridiculous comparison. You're running out out arguments.  Grin




INstead of just stating its a ridiculous comparison, could you please point to scientific, logical reasons why its different.


Venom is a dead chemical. A virus is a live organism that multiplies...
Antivenom neutralizes venom. If it would immunize, then - once taken - you could get bitten by the same snake over and over again and you wouldn't get sick. Now that would be cool.  Grin 



My understanding of typical anti-vax arguments is that it isn't so much the antibody or antigen thats the issue. But its what else is supposedly in it.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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Re: Anti-vaccinationists
Reply #43 - Oct 22nd, 2014 at 9:45am
 
The ultimate rebuttal to the anti-vaccine people is history isn't it?
Don't they know what infant mortality was like before community vaccination programs? Widespread deaths from diphtheria, whooping cough and all the rest.
Surely that's the end of the argument.
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Re: Anti-vaccinationists
Reply #44 - Oct 22nd, 2014 at 9:58am
 
bogarde73 wrote on Oct 22nd, 2014 at 9:45am:
The ultimate rebuttal to the anti-vaccine people is history isn't it?
Don't they know what infant mortality was like before community vaccination programs? Widespread deaths from diphtheria, whooping cough and all the rest.
Surely that's the end of the argument.



I would agree bogarde, but I've had long experience arguing with these people. Their comeback is that its due to improved hygiene. I think hygiene is part of it, but it doesn't explain all of it.
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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