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Another Shooting Range Death in Perth? (Read 9681 times)
|dev|null
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Re: Another Shooting Range Death in Perth?
Reply #45 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:24am
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 9:22am:
|dev|null wrote on Oct 22nd, 2014 at 11:33am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Oct 22nd, 2014 at 9:23am:
And the US laws (or system) actually hasn't turned out all that bad. Despite all the misrepresentation used by the anti-gun lobbies.


32,163 gun deaths in 2011 suggest otherwise.

How can that appalling statistic be "misrepresentation"?   Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin


About 20,000 of them are firearm suicides which is about half of all suicides, 80% of firearm suicides are done by white men.

Are anti gun bigots like you showing concern for all those white men who end their lives with a firearm, what about the other 20,000 who kill themselves by other methods any concern for them or does that not fit in with your bigotry towards law abiding firearm owners?

Of course anti gun bigots like the greens are all for assisted suicide, providing you don't use a gun.

www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm


Gizmo tried to claim firearms issues had been "misrepresented".  32,000 dead is an appalling statistic, no matter what the cause. 

If it was road deaths, there would be calls for measures to be taken to reduce that number.  You'd see mandatory safety belt laws, improved vehicle safety measures, increased policing, etc. 

If it was drug deaths, there be calls for greater punitive measures, drug rehabilitation, more policing, etc. 

Because it's guns, hey everything is off-limits?  That's a sick society that sanctions it's citizens killing each other and themselves.   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin
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ian
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Re: Another Shooting Range Death in Perth?
Reply #46 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:28am
 
... wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:16am:
ian wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 10:39am:
No wonder our kids are fcked up


Our kids? 

Your kids might be buggered up, but I suspect thats genetic.
congratulations.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Another Shooting Range Death in Perth?
Reply #47 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:39am
 
|dev|null wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:24am:
Because it's guns, hey everything is off-limits?  That's a sick society that sanctions it's citizens killing each other and themselves.   




Sick, indeed.

...

...
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Another Shooting Range Death in Perth?
Reply #48 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 12:01pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 12:25am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Oct 22nd, 2014 at 9:23am:
Sure. Austria, Czech Republic, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, The Netherlands, Slovakia and Sweden.


Austria - All firearms, except black powder are regulated and require licenses.

Czech Republic - "Gun ownership in the Czech Republic is regulated by gun laws adhering to the European Firearms Directive."  In otherwords a license is required and types of firearm are regulated.

Finland - "The ownership and use of firearms in Finland is regulated by the country's Firearms Act of 1998. "

France - "In France, to buy a firearm, a hunting license or a shooting sport license is necessary. All semi-automatic rifles with a capacity greater than 3 rounds, all handguns and all rifles chambered in 'military' calibers, including bolt action, require permits. "

Germany - "Gun ownership in Germany is regulated by the Federal Weapons Act (German: Waffengesetz), 1972; it extends previous gun legislation. It is considered a restrictive law.[29]" In otherwords access to firearms is controlled and licenses are required.

Ireland - "Firearms generally require a firearms certificate" - access to firearms is restricted and licenses are required.

Italy - Licenses are required, the number and type of firearms which can be owned are restricted and regulated.

The Netherlands - "...gun ownership is restricted to law enforcement, hunters, and target shooters. Self-defense is not a valid reason to own guns. To obtain a hunting license one must pass a hunters safety course. To get one for target shooting, one must be a member of a shooting club for a year. People with felonies, drug addictions, and mental illnesses may not possess any firearms."

Slovakia - "Gun ownership in Slovakia is regulated principally by law 190/2003.[51] A gun license is necessary to purchase most firearms. Air guns with muzzle energy up to 15 J, gas pistols and non-repeating muzzle-loaded guns are available to anybody above 18 without permission. Fully automatic guns, sound supressors and hollow-point bullets (when used for self-defense) are forbidden."

Sweden - "Gun ownership requires license and is regulated by the weapon law (Vapenlagen 1996:67)[54] further regulations are found in weapon decree (Vapenförordningen 1996:70)[55] and FAP 551-3 - RPSFS 2009:13 "Rikspolisstyrelsens föreskrifter och allmänna råd om vapenlagstiftningen".[56]

The law doesn't ban any specific firearms or weapons, it merely states the requirements to own one. Everything from pepperspray to fully automatic machine guns are technically legal, and licenses to civilians can be given in "special" cases."

[Source]

I am unsure what definition of "unqualified" or "unregulated" you're using, Gizmo but it appears at odds to what are the actual conditions in those nations you have named.    Roll Eyes

Quote:
And the US laws (or system) actually hasn't turned out all that bad. Despite all the misrepresentation used by the anti-gun lobbies.


As HB has pointed out, the US has a very high rate of gun deaths, Gizmo.  Not sure what you mean by "hasn't turned out all that bad," but more Americans die from gun shots in peacetime than have died because of enemy action in both Iraq and Afghanistan combined.   The total number that HB supplied - 32,163 is nearly equivalent to the number of US military wounded in Iraq in 10 years of fighting (32,223 wounded in action).   No society can sustain that sort of death rate annually and there not be repercussions.


Well I should perhaps have removed 'unqualified' from your post before answering...
Because even the US doesn't have 'unqualified' gun ownership everywhere. State laws vary considerably.

However, my point remains the same. Most countries are quite ok with the concept of firearms possession for hunting and target shooting, so trying to change Olympic shooting competitions to a virtual reality system would probably be laughed at.
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Another Shooting Range Death in Perth?
Reply #49 - Oct 24th, 2014 at 11:25am
 
|dev|null wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:24am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 9:22am:
|dev|null wrote on Oct 22nd, 2014 at 11:33am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Oct 22nd, 2014 at 9:23am:
And the US laws (or system) actually hasn't turned out all that bad. Despite all the misrepresentation used by the anti-gun lobbies.


32,163 gun deaths in 2011 suggest otherwise.

How can that appalling statistic be "misrepresentation"?   Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin


About 20,000 of them are firearm suicides which is about half of all suicides, 80% of firearm suicides are done by white men.

Are anti gun bigots like you showing concern for all those white men who end their lives with a firearm, what about the other 20,000 who kill themselves by other methods any concern for them or does that not fit in with your bigotry towards law abiding firearm owners?

Of course anti gun bigots like the greens are all for assisted suicide, providing you don't use a gun.

www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm


Gizmo tried to claim firearms issues had been "misrepresented".  32,000 dead is an appalling statistic, no matter what the cause. 

If it was road deaths, there would be calls for measures to be taken to reduce that number.  You'd see mandatory safety belt laws, improved vehicle safety measures, increased policing, etc. 

If it was drug deaths, there be calls for greater punitive measures, drug rehabilitation, more policing, etc. 

Because it's guns, hey everything is off-limits?  That's a sick society that sanctions it's citizens killing each other and themselves.   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin


There are about 40,000 suicide deaths in the USA every year, do you have any concern for the other 20,000 who don't use a firearm to kill themselves?

Quote:
Unintentional fall deaths- 27,483
Motor vehicle deaths- 33,783
Unintentional poisoning deaths - 36,280
www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/accidental-injury.htm

Firearm homicides- 11,068
www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm


Far more people die from accidental falls and accidental poisoning in the USA compared to firearm homicides.

The Americans had a war on illegal drugs how did that work out?

Can you cite where America sanctions its citizens killing each other or is it against the law to murder someone in the USA?

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greggerypeccary
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Re: Another Shooting Range Death in Perth?
Reply #50 - Oct 24th, 2014 at 11:28am
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 24th, 2014 at 11:25am:
Far more people die from accidental falls and accidental poisoning in the USA compared to firearm homicides.




And your point is?
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ian
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Re: Another Shooting Range Death in Perth?
Reply #51 - Oct 24th, 2014 at 12:04pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 24th, 2014 at 11:25am:
|dev|null wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:24am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 23rd, 2014 at 9:22am:
|dev|null wrote on Oct 22nd, 2014 at 11:33am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Oct 22nd, 2014 at 9:23am:
And the US laws (or system) actually hasn't turned out all that bad. Despite all the misrepresentation used by the anti-gun lobbies.


32,163 gun deaths in 2011 suggest otherwise.

How can that appalling statistic be "misrepresentation"?   Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin


About 20,000 of them are firearm suicides which is about half of all suicides, 80% of firearm suicides are done by white men.

Are anti gun bigots like you showing concern for all those white men who end their lives with a firearm, what about the other 20,000 who kill themselves by other methods any concern for them or does that not fit in with your bigotry towards law abiding firearm owners?

Of course anti gun bigots like the greens are all for assisted suicide, providing you don't use a gun.

www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm


Gizmo tried to claim firearms issues had been "misrepresented".  32,000 dead is an appalling statistic, no matter what the cause. 

If it was road deaths, there would be calls for measures to be taken to reduce that number.  You'd see mandatory safety belt laws, improved vehicle safety measures, increased policing, etc. 

If it was drug deaths, there be calls for greater punitive measures, drug rehabilitation, more policing, etc. 

Because it's guns, hey everything is off-limits?  That's a sick society that sanctions it's citizens killing each other and themselves.   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin


There are about 40,000 suicide deaths in the USA every year, do you have any concern for the other 20,000 who don't use a firearm to kill themselves?

Quote:
Unintentional fall deaths- 27,483
Motor vehicle deaths- 33,783
Unintentional poisoning deaths - 36,280
www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/accidental-injury.htm

Firearm homicides- 11,068
www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm


Far more people die from accidental falls and accidental poisoning in the USA compared to firearm homicides.

The Americans had a war on illegal drugs how did that work out?

Can you cite where America sanctions its citizens killing each other or is it against the law to murder someone in the USA?

Increased gun ownership  leads to increased gun deaths in any society. there is zero dispute about this. You can argue as much as you like about peoples rights to own firearms and you may or may not have a point but the main point remains, more guns = more deaths.
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Re: Another Shooting Range Death in Perth?
Reply #52 - Oct 24th, 2014 at 1:57pm
 
Baron why do you keep comparing apples and oranges?

You always compare firearm homicides to deaths by other means.  Why not compare TOTAL firearm deaths to deaths by other means?  It would be more intellectually honest!   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Another Shooting Range Death in Perth?
Reply #53 - Oct 25th, 2014 at 11:04am
 
ian wrote on Oct 24th, 2014 at 12:04pm:
Increased gun ownership  leads to increased gun deaths in any society. there is zero dispute about this. You can argue as much as you like about peoples rights to own firearms and you may or may not have a point but the main point remains, more guns = more deaths.


Increased gun ownership does not result in increased deaths,the only people who dispute this fact are ignorant of the evidence and push their anti gun bigotry.

Dr Samara McPhedran did a study in NSW which has the highest rate of gun crime in Australia and found increasing numbers of firearms did not result in more deaths and in fact firearm deaths declined in NSW while firearm numbers increased by over 20%.
Quote:
2001- registered firearms 619643, firearm murders 28, attempt murder 47 robbery with firearm 1006, stolen firearm 851
2010- registered firearms 748,216,firearm murders 17, attempt murder 11, robbery with firearm 411, firearms stolen 569

gameconnsw.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/McPhedran_More_Guns_More_or_Less_Crime...


Your hypothesis is flawed the evidence does not back up your claim as it is documented firearm crimes have decreased while gun numbers have risen in NSW.

Of course if you claimed increasing numbers of illegally owned firearms could increase firearm crimes i could agree with that, the evidence shows increasing numbers of legally owned firearms can see a reduction in firearm crimes.

Which demographic is responsible for the majority of gun crimes in NSW, the Glocks stolen by this family are not available for legal ownership, the SKS they used was outlawed in 1996, how much did this family contribute to the crime statistics Dr McPhedran supplied?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwiche-Razzak-Fahda_family_conflict

When you examine the buzzwords and one liners from the anti gun bigots they have no substance.


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Re: Another Shooting Range Death in Perth?
Reply #54 - Oct 25th, 2014 at 11:09am
 
|dev|null wrote on Oct 24th, 2014 at 1:57pm:
Baron why do you keep comparing apples and oranges?

You always compare firearm homicides to deaths by other means.  Why not compare TOTAL firearm deaths to deaths by other means?  It would be more intellectually honest! 



Deflection.

Without a valid argument, he has to do something.


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Re: Another Shooting Range Death in Perth?
Reply #55 - Oct 25th, 2014 at 11:12am
 
|dev|null wrote on Oct 24th, 2014 at 1:57pm:
Baron why do you keep comparing apples and oranges?

You always compare firearm homicides to deaths by other means.  Why not compare TOTAL firearm deaths to deaths by other means?  It would be more intellectually honest!   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy


If people like you were intellectually honest you would not tell lies in claiming our laws reduced suicides.

Where is the reduction in suicide deaths that gun grabbers claim-
Quote:
Death and injury> suicide any method
1993- 2,081
1994- 2,258
1995- 2,368
1996- 2,393
Gun laws imposed
1997- 2,720
1998- 2,683
1999-2,492
www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia


All the laws achieved was changing the method people use to kill themselves, firearms were the most common method of suicide and now hanging accounts for over half of all suicides.

Of course the anti gun bigots will never say anything about those who hang themselves because it doesn't fit in with their bigotry.
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Re: Another Shooting Range Death in Perth?
Reply #56 - Oct 25th, 2014 at 7:11pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 25th, 2014 at 11:12am:
|dev|null wrote on Oct 24th, 2014 at 1:57pm:
Baron why do you keep comparing apples and oranges?

You always compare firearm homicides to deaths by other means.  Why not compare TOTAL firearm deaths to deaths by other means?  It would be more intellectually honest!   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy


If people like you were intellectually honest you would not tell lies in claiming our laws reduced suicides.


Can you please point out where HB claimed that, Baron?

I think he has you though, why are you continually comparing apples and oranges?   Roll Eyes
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Re: Another Shooting Range Death in Perth?
Reply #57 - Oct 25th, 2014 at 7:24pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 25th, 2014 at 7:11pm:
Can you please point out where HB claimed that, Baron?

I think he has you though, why are you continually comparing apples and oranges?   



That's the modus operandi of pro-gun bigots.


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Re: Another Shooting Range Death in Perth?
Reply #58 - Nov 11th, 2014 at 5:43pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 25th, 2014 at 7:11pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 25th, 2014 at 11:12am:
|dev|null wrote on Oct 24th, 2014 at 1:57pm:
Baron why do you keep comparing apples and oranges?

You always compare firearm homicides to deaths by other means.  Why not compare TOTAL firearm deaths to deaths by other means?  It would be more intellectually honest!   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy


If people like you were intellectually honest you would not tell lies in claiming our laws reduced suicides.


Can you please point out where HB claimed that, Baron?

I think he has you though, why are you continually comparing apples and oranges?   Roll Eyes


It's being dishonest  claiming our gun laws reduced suicides, does that imply the numerous groups like beyond blue and lifeline had absolutely no impact on reducing suicides and our gun laws alone were responsible for this reduction?

Here is one leftist idiot saying 200 lives a year were saved from our gun laws, the actual suicide numbers showed a big increase in suicide deaths after the 1996 gun laws so where did these 200 saved lives come from, did he pluck a number from his ass?
www.smh.com.au/national/howards-gun-legacy--200-lives-saved-a-year-20100829-13xn...

Suicides are a separate issue.


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Re: Another Shooting Range Death in Perth?
Reply #59 - Nov 11th, 2014 at 5:54pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 11th, 2014 at 5:43pm:
Suicides are a separate issue.


I would generally agree, especially with young people who "suicide". I imagine that some teenage suicides are actually (HOPEFULLY)  a call for HELP that went wrong.
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