Hi all, first off I'm new here but I would like to ask you what you think of the late confusion over the meaning of patriotism and racism in Australia?

My thought was started over the recent "Woolies T-Shirt" scandal that depicted an Australian flag with the words "Love it or leave it."

Of course... everyone in Australia seemingly jumped onto their high horses in an attempt to do nothing besides cause a fuss over a minor issue.

Many people (mostly Lefties) said that it was racist, the meaning of racism is "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a difference race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

I think racism is definitely a part of this, but not on behalf of the manufacturer, the seller or the wearer. Is it not a fair call that if you are not willing to join into Australia's culture and love the freedoms and opportunities that exist in this beautiful country... that you should go and find a place better suited to you?

Most people tried to read between the lines of the slogan, saying that it was a repeat of "F**k off we're full", and other outright racist remarks, however, it wasn't. It said "Love it or leave it". It does not specify a group, gender, race or culture that should leave? It could have applied to anyone who read it? So how is it racist?

I think that in Australia's new heightened fear of being politically incorrect we have become just that. Hanging an Australian flag or wearing a certain T-Shirt, is somehow racist. To show love for a country that provides extremely well for everyone?

The thought that some people cannot read a simple T-Shirt that does not infer race, color or religion - that your first response was to create a divide through Australia. Instantly break down Australian society into groups that are based on color, race and religion. That is the real discrimination.

Patriotism and racism are two very separate things and should NEVER be confused.

I'm keen to read some replies.

Quote:


Which group, gender, race or culture does "bugger off we're full" specify?

I think I see (maybe) where you are coming from Raven, but it is simpler than that.

It is 'Team Australia.'

It is 'You are either with us or against us.'

It is (as Mike Carlton pointed out) 'Are you still beating your Wife?'

Raven wrote on Oct 16^th, 2014 at 6:46pm:



I use the expression TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT  a lot??..

what does that say about me?...

you come to my house you get the choice of one meal and one dessert..

its called TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT>.

dont mess with me.

Freedumb. I understand what you mean. And i think you must have me confused with someone else. This is my first account. I chose the name Black Flag because it has a number of anarchist connotations. A Black Flag is obviously the opposite to the white flag of surrender. "We live free or die" was used alongside a black flag by the Catalan army and militia corps during the final stages of the War of the Spanish Succession. It is also in reference to the "Jolly Roger" (pirate flag), a skull one a black flag, the pirates represent a disregard for law and authority, also, pirate ships were run according to a very basic democratic system.

Black_Flag wrote on Oct 16^th, 2014 at 8:02pm:


I apologise if I've made the wrong accusation.

Are you interested in anarchism?

I actually thought your username was referring to the band Black Flag.

Aussie. I read it in an article and that's the best i remember it, rough paraphrasing you might say.

Black_Flag wrote on Oct 16^th, 2014 at 9:49pm:


Hear, hear.

That's one, among many things, that annoy me about the current system.

For instance, in WA they created "super towns". In a small, deadbeat town about 800 kms away from where I live now, the dole office was upgraded. The town I live in, in the meantime, is going to the dogs. Ironically, a lot of the money in WA comes from this place as it is a major mining operation. Is it fair that money should come out of here and be spent on useless actions like upgrading a dole office? Give me a break.

Freedumb. I'm sorry to hear about your town. Unfortunately, that is the reality of this current system. It saddens me how quickly people's hard-earned money can just be taken  away and never seen again. In some places its robbery but in Parliament its called policy.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 16^th, 2014 at 6:45pm:


Basically, the "bugger off, we're full" thing is aimed at any subset that wasn't born in Australia.

Hmmmmmm.....Tweddle Dumb and Tweedle Dee.  The Circus is back in town.

Freedumb, JaSin, and now 'Black Jack.'  All very deju vu.  (It could, of course, be well passed this pretty experienced observer's bed time.)

Mods?

Freedumb wrote on Oct 16^th, 2014 at 9:03pm:



I feel really sorry for people in Vic they have now banned Baa Baa Black Sheep...from childcare centres...I wont bother explaining the reason...

if we dont screw up a whole generation.... we will be very very lucky...I wonder if Snow White is next.

Black_Flag wrote on Oct 17^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:



this was a fair while ago... I think they poshed it up before they sold it off....as the outside was done as well.. which is local govt owned...at least they seem to be able to sell off the carpark land to developers in this town....

Black_Flag wrote on Oct 17^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:


TABCORP went for a new look a few years ago, I am not positive but I think they may have at least partly if not fully funded the upgrades in selected outlets.

Aussie wrote on Oct 16^th, 2014 at 11:02pm:


Wot.

You're joking right? Do you think Black Flag is JaSin under a different name? If so, I don't think so. Jasin has a very distinct way of typing, and after what I said he wouldn't be responding to me at all 

Orr.... you think something else. I am not the OzPol whore if that's what you're thinking . I'm simply having a discussion with this member. I have civil conversations with other members similar to this as well, but there is absolutely nothing romantic/sexual/flirty about it.

Quote:


Nobody has "banned" Baa Baa Black Sheep. The same nonsense story makes an appearance every couple of years and always turns out to be absolute rubbish. It's the same as the banning of the Sydney City Christmas Decorations, the banning of Easter Parades in schools, the whole "thar stealing our Christmas" thing..... pure and utter bullshit, put out there to rile up the gullible.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 17^th, 2014 at 4:39pm:


??????????
hummmmmm I thought is was obvious... the word BLACK..even though there is such a thing as a black faced sheep...rather beautiful.. from my point of view..

but the word BLACK is a No No.in Vic

Freedumb wrote on Oct 17^th, 2014 at 4:12pm:


Jasin has a very distinct way of typing


Yes he looks to be naturally left handed but war taught right handed typing. I think he sometimes turns the keyboard upside down to type - very distinctive style.

Patriotism v. Racism?

Irrespective of the singlet you could be excused for thinking that to not be racist in todays Australia is unpatriotic.

cods wrote on Oct 17^th, 2014 at 5:08pm:


When I was very young I had a book about Big ears and Golly wogs, 15 or so years later I was playing footy with them. It did catch on.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 17^th, 2014 at 6:24pm:



so its racists like you that have now got rid of baa baa black sheep....shame on you shame...

Guys, just to confirm. I am no other person, if you need an intro to me I'm 17 from Brisbane, by not means an intellectual, just an underachieving kid with above average intelligence but struggle to show this intelligence because of modern education processes who reward kids who can regurgitate information, who think that because they can memorize what other people have recorded and said, that it makes them smart. I am very opinionated and strong willed in my beliefs. However, lately I realized that many of my previous views are unrefined and I have gone about refining them through reading certain influential autobiographies on both sides of politics, as well as other famous literary works such as Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" etc. My joining of this forum is an extension of that and to be honest, I am extremely happy with the communications and discussions that are on this website. I am not Jasin, or whoever else seems to be infamous on here.

Black_Flag wrote on Oct 17^th, 2014 at 10:08pm:


Welcome to the forum.

To explain, there is a certain individual in here who likes to come in under different nicknames and pretend to be a different person each time though it is obvious that it's the same person. I perceived you to be this person from your first post but I think otherwise now, so I apologise for that.

It's great that you're showing an interest in such matters. A lot of people, particularly of your age group wouldn't. I'm quite young myself, aged 23. Most people my age prefer getting drunk or drugged and posting selfies on Facebook.  Yours wouldn't be much different.

The people on this forum are great. They are very intelligent and informative. Of course you get people who try to insult you and what not but let's face it, it's human nature to do that. Just try not to get roped into the tit-for-tat game and you'll have a good experience here. There is a lot of diversity amongst the people here; religious beliefs, political views, opinions, etc.

Also, keep reading the stuff you are reading. Look for various sources, don't just stick to one. Expand your views, be willing to change your mind if something really sticks out for you and don't let pride and prejudice get in the way. It's okay to be wrong and ignorant, there is much to learn. People only use 10 per cent of their brains, after all (supposedly). 

Black_Flag wrote on Oct 16^th, 2014 at 7:57pm:


Indeed there is BF the positives of being Australian overwhelmingly outweigh any negatives.

However Love it or Leave it? What kind of country are we talking about? As Raven has said earlier, his idea of what Australia is, is different to what another's idea of Australia is.

Raven childhood was different to how the majority of Australians were raised, therefore his view of Australia is different then most.

Which view do we consider when we ask wether or not we Love it or Leave it?

cods wrote on Oct 17^th, 2014 at 9:49pm:


I didn't say it was racist just that I know them.

What is racist about big ears - Tony would be using that one for sure. I also know Gonzo. (The great Gonzo to some).

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 18^th, 2014 at 9:43am:



you know I used to cringe when they had those union stirrers on the News on TV and they all had bloody North Shields accents... I used to swear they were just brought over here to cause trouble....I spent many years in the Wollongong district you name it it was there..every kind..but the Northern English and the Scots accent seemed to be sh!t stirrers for a long time...

hangs head in shame.... you come here for a better life.. why bring all that with you?

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 18^th, 2014 at 10:26am:


At the place I worked we didn't have a solitary English union delegate ~ they were all little smart-arsed Greeks strutting around like little puffed-up bantam cocks.

They were the very same mentality that recently brought Greece onto its knees in total collapse as the Homeless Bum nation of Europe, needing Germany and Britain to flip a few coins into its begging bowl to keep it from disappearing all together.



I know I was just thinking it takes all kinds...I was going back quite a few years...60s and 70s..

yesterday wasnt it???

Dnarever wrote on Oct 17^th, 2014 at 5:04pm:

AHHH yes Dnarever  .. seems things are heading that way  ..have been for a long time..

Racism ?  very sad because it shows a definite  lack of intellect ..

people who espouse this type of hatred are actually low IQ individuals.. according to a recent study.

  Fancy that..??

No I find most ranters are just parrots repeating some words they don't actually comprehend.

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 18^th, 2014 at 9:43am:



That would be really good you racist pommy arselicker

jeez  where have all the below ave IQ posters gone..??   

Emma wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2014 at 1:30am:


Please explain.

cods wrote on Oct 24^th, 2014 at 7:21am:


"sheeeeeeze" a what?

Don't answer that. I know what she is. All heart and no brain. 

Emma wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2014 at 1:30am:



   Herbie got owned.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 24^th, 2014 at 1:06pm:
Patriots aren't the type of people to fill the country up with people who don't fit in and never will.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

Samuel Johnson, April 7, 1775

Bubba Zanetti wrote on Oct 24^th, 2014 at 1:39pm:




Conscripts too?

Bubba Zanetti wrote on Oct 24^th, 2014 at 1:39pm:


Being deliberately obtuse again?  What it doesn't mean is that all Patriots are scoundrels.  What it does mean is that scoundrels will, as a last resort, hide behind patriotism.  What a tool!   

|dev|null wrote on Oct 24^th, 2014 at 3:56pm:

So Orwell is now a scoundrel because of what Johnson said 250 years ago.

As long as you don't have to think you are happy.

cods wrote on Oct 24^th, 2014 at 4:19pm:



Cause for real concern there Cods   

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 24^th, 2014 at 1:05pm:


Pig's arse!

Emma is a loose cannon, which means she's all over the deck like a Boarding House pudding.

You could be next to receive a broadside from her. It all depends on the phases of the moon.

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 24^th, 2014 at 1:05pm:

[size=6][/size]

  Poor herbie,   

It all depends on the phases of the moon.   

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 25^th, 2014 at 3:04pm:

You do not realise, my silly little TAFE teacher, that you are not quoting me with that Boswell reference. I don't know why you attributed it to me, if not out of your customary dishonesty.

Emma wrote on Oct 27^th, 2014 at 1:05am:



What exactly is wrong with liking and preferring your own culture above all others?