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Patriotism v. Racism? (Read 7071 times)
Black_Flag
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Patriotism v. Racism?
Oct 16th, 2014 at 6:07pm
 
Hi all, first off I'm new here but I would like to ask you what you think of the late confusion over the meaning of patriotism and racism in Australia?

My thought was started over the recent "Woolies T-Shirt" scandal that depicted an Australian flag with the words "Love it or leave it."

Of course... everyone in Australia seemingly jumped onto their high horses in an attempt to do nothing besides cause a fuss over a minor issue.

Many people (mostly Lefties) said that it was racist, the meaning of racism is "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a difference race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

I think racism is definitely a part of this, but not on behalf of the manufacturer, the seller or the wearer. Is it not a fair call that if you are not willing to join into Australia's culture and love the freedoms and opportunities that exist in this beautiful country... that you should go and find a place better suited to you?

Most people tried to read between the lines of the slogan, saying that it was a repeat of "F**k off we're full", and other outright racist remarks, however, it wasn't. It said "Love it or leave it". It does not specify a group, gender, race or culture that should leave? It could have applied to anyone who read it? So how is it racist?

I think that in Australia's new heightened fear of being politically incorrect we have become just that. Hanging an Australian flag or wearing a certain T-Shirt, is somehow racist. To show love for a country that provides extremely well for everyone?

The thought that some people cannot read a simple T-Shirt that does not infer race, color or religion - that your first response was to create a divide through Australia. Instantly break down Australian society into groups that are based on color, race and religion. That is the real discrimination.

Patriotism and racism are two very separate things and should NEVER be confused.

I'm keen to read some replies.
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Freedumb
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Re: Patriotism v. Racism?
Reply #1 - Oct 16th, 2014 at 6:44pm
 
Black_Flag wrote on Oct 16th, 2014 at 6:07pm:
Hi all, first off I'm new here but I would like to ask you what you think of the late confusion over the meaning of patriotism and racism in Australia?

My thought was started over the recent "Woolies T-Shirt" scandal that depicted an Australian flag with the words "Love it or leave it."

Of course... everyone in Australia seemingly jumped onto their high horses in an attempt to do nothing besides cause a fuss over a minor issue.

Many people (mostly Lefties) said that it was racist, the meaning of racism is "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a difference race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

I think racism is definitely a part of this, but not on behalf of the manufacturer, the seller or the wearer. Is it not a fair call that if you are not willing to join into Australia's culture and love the freedoms and opportunities that exist in this beautiful country... that you should go and find a place better suited to you?

Most people tried to read between the lines of the slogan, saying that it was a repeat of "F**k off we're full", and other outright racist remarks, however, it wasn't. It said "Love it or leave it". It does not specify a group, gender, race or culture that should leave? It could have applied to anyone who read it? So how is it racist?

I think that in Australia's new heightened fear of being politically incorrect we have become just that. Hanging an Australian flag or wearing a certain T-Shirt, is somehow racist. To show love for a country that provides extremely well for everyone?

The thought that some people cannot read a simple T-Shirt that does not infer race, color or religion - that your first response was to create a divide through Australia. Instantly break down Australian society into groups that are based on color, race and religion. That is the real discrimination.

Patriotism and racism are two very separate things and should NEVER be confused.

I'm keen to read some replies. 


I agree. The problem lies in the fact that many people are that paranoid about racism they end up making assumptions that they are when nothing is actually implied about religion/race/culture etc. In a way it kind of makes them the actual racist, or "reverse-racist".

By the way, Bubba_Zanetti/Animal Mutha (and whatever other name you go under). You must have a lot of accounts here.  Wink
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And what it wouldn't be, it would.
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Annie Anthrax
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Re: Patriotism v. Racism?
Reply #2 - Oct 16th, 2014 at 6:45pm
 
Quote:
Most people tried to read between the lines of the slogan, saying that it was a repeat of "F**k off we're full", and other outright racist remarks, however, it wasn't. It said "Love it or leave it". It does not specify a group, gender, race or culture that should leave?


Which group, gender, race or culture does "bugger off we're full" specify?
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Raven
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Re: Patriotism v. Racism?
Reply #3 - Oct 16th, 2014 at 6:46pm
 
Most likely the real problem people had with the shirt is that they feel their view of what constitutes "Australia" is under challenge. Love it or leave it is a gesture of indignity and affront.

It rankles not so much because it's racist, or bigoted, but because it is so weirdly distant from the truth: a hostile defence of an idea of this country that either never truly existed or has long since been transformed by the march of people, ideas and simple time.

A country is inherently progressive, a notion that evolves with the people and ideas it contains. The inertia in that process is the sort of conservatism so angry at that transformation it is driven to the threat of love it or leave; a conservatism that fixes on an imagined figment, a precious impression of the past.

Love it or leave is the loss of a reality that is essentially imagined, or narrowly self-reflective and nostalgic.

It's not patriotism rather it is a shrine to a past that never was but for some will always be.
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Re: Patriotism v. Racism?
Reply #4 - Oct 16th, 2014 at 6:50pm
 
I think I see (maybe) where you are coming from Raven, but it is simpler than that.

It is 'Team Australia.'

It is 'You are either with us or against us.'

It is (as Mike Carlton pointed out) 'Are you still beating your Wife?'
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Re: Patriotism v. Racism?
Reply #5 - Oct 16th, 2014 at 7:35pm
 
Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 16th, 2014 at 6:45pm:
Quote:
Most people tried to read between the lines of the slogan, saying that it was a repeat of "F**k off we're full", and other outright racist remarks, however, it wasn't. It said "Love it or leave it". It does not specify a group, gender, race or culture that should leave?


Which group, gender, race or culture does "bugger off we're full" specify?



the Brits who else?..
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cods
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Re: Patriotism v. Racism?
Reply #6 - Oct 16th, 2014 at 7:37pm
 
Raven wrote on Oct 16th, 2014 at 6:46pm:
Most likely the real problem people had with the shirt is that they feel their view of what constitutes "Australia" is under challenge. Love it or leave it is a gesture of indignity and affront.

It rankles not so much because it's racist, or bigoted, but because it is so weirdly distant from the truth: a hostile defence of an idea of this country that either never truly existed or has long since been transformed by the march of people, ideas and simple time.

A country is inherently progressive, a notion that evolves with the people and ideas it contains. The inertia in that process is the sort of conservatism so angry at that transformation it is driven to the threat of love it or leave; a conservatism that fixes on an imagined figment, a precious impression of the past.

Love it or leave is the loss of a reality that is essentially imagined, or narrowly self-reflective and nostalgic.

It's not patriotism rather it is a shrine to a past that never was but for some will always be.



I use the expression TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT  a lot??..

what does that say about me?...

you come to my house you get the choice of one meal and one dessert..

its called TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT>.

dont mess with me.
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Re: Patriotism v. Racism?
Reply #7 - Oct 16th, 2014 at 7:57pm
 
Raven I understand that patriotism usually refers to heritage. But patriotism could also be used today, there is a lot to love our country for.
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Black_Flag
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Re: Patriotism v. Racism?
Reply #8 - Oct 16th, 2014 at 8:02pm
 
Freedumb. I understand what you mean. And i think you must have me confused with someone else. This is my first account. I chose the name Black Flag because it has a number of anarchist connotations. A Black Flag is obviously the opposite to the white flag of surrender. "We live free or die" was used alongside a black flag by the Catalan army and militia corps during the final stages of the War of the Spanish Succession. It is also in reference to the "Jolly Roger" (pirate flag), a skull one a black flag, the pirates represent a disregard for law and authority, also, pirate ships were run according to a very basic democratic system.
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Re: Patriotism v. Racism?
Reply #9 - Oct 16th, 2014 at 8:36pm
 
Black_Flag wrote on Oct 16th, 2014 at 8:02pm:
Freedumb. I understand what you mean. And i think you must have me confused with someone else. This is my first account. I chose the name Black Flag because it has a number of anarchist connotations. A Black Flag is obviously the opposite to the white flag of surrender. "We live free or die" was used alongside a black flag by the Catalan army and militia corps during the final stages of the War of the Spanish Succession. It is also in reference to the "Jolly Roger" (pirate flag), a skull one a black flag, the pirates represent a disregard for law and authority, also, pirate ships were run according to a very basic democratic system.


All your own work there Mr Black Flag?
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Re: Patriotism v. Racism?
Reply #10 - Oct 16th, 2014 at 9:03pm
 
Black_Flag wrote on Oct 16th, 2014 at 8:02pm:
Freedumb. I understand what you mean. And i think you must have me confused with someone else. This is my first account. I chose the name Black Flag because it has a number of anarchist connotations. A Black Flag is obviously the opposite to the white flag of surrender. "We live free or die" was used alongside a black flag by the Catalan army and militia corps during the final stages of the War of the Spanish Succession. It is also in reference to the "Jolly Roger" (pirate flag), a skull one a black flag, the pirates represent a disregard for law and authority, also, pirate ships were run according to a very basic democratic system.


I apologise if I've made the wrong accusation.

Are you interested in anarchism?

I actually thought your username was referring to the band Black Flag.
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Nothing would be what it is,
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And contrary-wise - what it is, it wouldn't be.
And what it wouldn't be, it would.
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Black_Flag
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Re: Patriotism v. Racism?
Reply #11 - Oct 16th, 2014 at 9:49pm
 
Freedumb. I am not referring to the band, never heard of it. And yes, I have recently become increasingly interested in it, I know that i would never be active in an anarchist movement to overthrow government or whatever, but there are some radical movements that could be implemented under the right circumstances and with the right care. I have been looking into many avenues of anarchism, my main focus here in Capital-Anarchism. Where anarchism usually refers to the liberation of all assets and there is no real thing of personal ownership. Capital-Anarchism still respects an individuals property and ownership of movable items, but land and public assets like transportation and hospitals should be owned and run by individuals. Not by money taken from the community from the government and then pumped back into the community. A person should keep the exact amount they earn per year, without taxes, and the individual should decide what they want to invest in e.g. schooling, hospitals, land, transportation. I don't see why, with the current system, someone living in central Queensland should pay taxes that help fund projects that help ease congestion for peak hour traffic in Brisbane city.
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Black_Flag
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Re: Patriotism v. Racism?
Reply #12 - Oct 16th, 2014 at 9:52pm
 
Aussie. I read it in an article and that's the best i remember it, rough paraphrasing you might say.
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Re: Patriotism v. Racism?
Reply #13 - Oct 16th, 2014 at 9:53pm
 
From the 'singlet' thread, but worth repeating here, and I don't feel like re-typing it....

I wrote:

Quote:
I don't disapprove of the singlets per se, nor do I swallow the claims that the slogan is racist.

But it is Nationalistic and jingoistic, and that does disturb me. The real targets of these slogans isn't migrants
or boat-people, it's dissenting Aussies who won't sign to play on 'Team Australia'....


...While I love Australia as a country, I have no love at all for its current political and social situation, nor where it
is heading. And I will not be leaving, I will be remaining here to fight 'Team Australia' and its supporters and
return this country to what it once was before the neo-con 'invasion'. I do not and will not resile from that.

And for those who do not like that, I cordially suggest that you leave.



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« Last Edit: Oct 16th, 2014 at 9:58pm by Kat »  

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Re: Patriotism v. Racism?
Reply #14 - Oct 16th, 2014 at 9:58pm
 
Black_Flag wrote on Oct 16th, 2014 at 9:49pm:
Freedumb. I am not referring to the band, never heard of it. And yes, I have recently become increasingly interested in it, I know that i would never be active in an anarchist movement to overthrow government or whatever, but there are some radical movements that could be implemented under the right circumstances and with the right care. I have been looking into many avenues of anarchism, my main focus here in Capital-Anarchism. Where anarchism usually refers to the liberation of all assets and there is no real thing of personal ownership. Capital-Anarchism still respects an individuals property and ownership of movable items, but land and public assets like transportation and hospitals should be owned and run by individuals. Not by money taken from the community from the government and then pumped back into the community. A person should keep the exact amount they earn per year, without taxes, and the individual should decide what they want to invest in e.g. schooling, hospitals, land, transportation. I don't see why, with the current system, someone living in central Queensland should pay taxes that help fund projects that help ease congestion for peak hour traffic in Brisbane city.


Hear, hear.

That's one, among many things, that annoy me about the current system.

For instance, in WA they created "super towns". In a small, deadbeat town about 800 kms away from where I live now, the dole office was upgraded. The town I live in, in the meantime, is going to the dogs. Ironically, a lot of the money in WA comes from this place as it is a major mining operation. Is it fair that money should come out of here and be spent on useless actions like upgrading a dole office? Give me a break.
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Nothing would be what it is,
Because everything would be what it isn't.
And contrary-wise - what it is, it wouldn't be.
And what it wouldn't be, it would.
You see?

- Lewis Carroll
 
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