Australian Politics Forum - Open letter to moderate muslims

Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17506 Gender:	Open letter to moderate muslims Oct 10^th, 2014 at 5:09pm A good article worth reading- www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/an-open-letter-to-moderate_b_5930764.html What are your thoughts on the lack of credibility he claims you have Gandalf?
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wally1 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2055 Gender:	Re: Open letter to moderate muslims Reply #1 - Oct 10^th, 2014 at 5:26pm I dont understand this bloke. He is athiest Muslim.That is confusing, so does he believe in God or not?
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Open letter to moderate muslims Reply #2 - Oct 10^th, 2014 at 6:16pm wally1 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2014 at 5:26pm: I dont understand this bloke. He is athiest Muslim.That is confusing, so does he believe in God or not? You have to think for yourself and so you are stumped. Who's surprised?
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Brian Ross

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Re: Open letter to moderate muslims
Reply #3 - Oct 10^th, 2014 at 6:25pm

So, Baron, you agree with the author when he states?
Quote:

I'm not going to accuse you of staying silent in the face of the horrific atrocities being committed around the world by your co-religionists. Most of you have loudly and unequivocally condemned groups like the Islamic State (ISIS), and gone out of your way to dissociate yourselves from them. You have helped successfully isolate ISIS and significantly damage its credibility.

I'm also not going to accuse you of being sympathetic to fundamentalists' causes like violent jihad or conversion by force. I know you condemn their primitive tactics like the rest of us, maybe even more so, considering the majority of victims of Islamic terrorists are moderate Muslims like yourselves. On this, I am with you.

But I do want to talk to you about your increasingly waning credibility -- a concern many of you have articulated as well.

You're feeling more misunderstood than ever, as Islamic fundamentalists hijack the image of Muslims, ostentatiously presenting themselves as the "voice of Islam." And worse, everyone seems to be buying it.

[Source]

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Open letter to moderate muslims
Reply #4 - Oct 10^th, 2014 at 6:26pm

wally1 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2014 at 5:26pm:

I dont understand this bloke.

He is athiest Muslim.That is confusing, so does he believe in God or not?

I would say he is an ex muslim when he says atheist muslim.

A jewish atheist would be an ex jew.

Do Agnostics believe in god?

Do atheists believe in Jinns or fairy tales?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Open letter to moderate muslims
Reply #5 - Oct 10^th, 2014 at 6:27pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 10^th, 2014 at 6:25pm:

So, Baron, you agree with the author when he states?
Quote:

I'm not going to accuse you of staying silent in the face of the horrific atrocities being committed around the world by your co-religionists. Most of you have loudly and unequivocally condemned groups like the Islamic State (ISIS), and gone out of your way to dissociate yourselves from them. You have helped successfully isolate ISIS and significantly damage its credibility.

I'm also not going to accuse you of being sympathetic to fundamentalists' causes like violent jihad or conversion by force. I know you condemn their primitive tactics like the rest of us, maybe even more so, considering the majority of victims of Islamic terrorists are moderate Muslims like yourselves. On this, I am with you.

But I do want to talk to you about your increasingly waning credibility -- a concern many of you have articulated as well.

You're feeling more misunderstood than ever, as Islamic fundamentalists hijack the image of Muslims, ostentatiously presenting themselves as the "voice of Islam." And worse, everyone seems to be buying it.

[Source]

You should cut and paste the whole article brian then i will tell you what i agree with.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 39575	Re: Open letter to moderate muslims Reply #6 - Oct 10^th, 2014 at 6:37pm It won't fit, Baron. I am though, interested if you agree with those paragraphs in particular. Do you?
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Yadda

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Re: Open letter to moderate muslims
Reply #7 - Oct 10^th, 2014 at 6:44pm

from the article in the OP...
Quote:

"What would you do if this situation was reversed? What are non-Muslims supposed to think when even moderate Muslims like yourselves defend the very same words and book that these fundamentalists effortlessly quote as justification for killing them -- as perfect and infallible?"

The article makes clear, is that if anyone who is NOT a moslem legitimately scrutinises ISLAM [its religious texts] and its doctrines, a moslem will call them a bigot or an ISLAMOPHOBE.

from the article...
Quote:

"Yes, it's wrong and unfair for anyone to judge a religion by the actions of its followers, be they progressive Muslims or al Qaeda."

!!!!!!!!!
Really ?

Quote:

"But it is appropriate and intellectually honest to judge it by the contents of its canonical texts -- texts that are now accessible online to anyone and everyone at the tap of a finger. "

Yes, it is!

from the article...
Quote:

"For starters, it might help to read not only the Quran, but the other Abrahamic texts. When you do, you'll see that the Old Testament has just as much violence, if not more, than the Quran. Stoning blasphemers, stoning fornicators, killing homosexuals -- it's all in there. When you get about ten verses deep into Deuteronomy 20, you may even swear you're reading a rulebook for ISIS."

No you couldn't think that the 'religious violence' cited in the Old Testament, has equivalence with 'a rulebook for ISIS'.

He is wrong.
The 'religious violence' cited in the Old Testament laws, were punishments which applied principally to individual Hebrews who were covenant breakers of their religious covenant laws.
But those punishments did NOT apply to 'strangers', because strangers had no covenant with the God of Israel.
[Whereas criminal laws, yes, applied to both Hebrews AND to strangers, living within the Hebrew 'camp'/nation.]

Exodus 19:8
And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

as per the injunction; A DEMAND THAT THE PEOPLE REMAIN HOLY, AND THAT THE PEOPLE KEEP THE COVENANT THAT THEY HAD MADE WITH THEIR GOD....

Leviticus 11:44
For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy:....

Leviticus 19:2
Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy.

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« Last Edit: Oct 10^th, 2014 at 6:50pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Open letter to moderate muslims
Reply #8 - Oct 10^th, 2014 at 6:48pm

Brian I too was surprised, and heartened, that Baron would post an article with those opening paragraphs and call it "a good article".

If we can get those two monkeys off our back, then that is real progress vis-a-vis muslim-non-muslim relationships. With those opening clarifications, I'm very happy to accept the criticisms contained in the article, and commend both the author and Baron for publishing it.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Open letter to moderate muslims
Reply #9 - Oct 10^th, 2014 at 7:41pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 10^th, 2014 at 6:48pm:

Brian I too was surprised, and heartened, that Baron would post an article with those opening paragraphs and call it "a good article".

If we can get those two monkeys off our back, then that is real progress vis-a-vis muslim-non-muslim relationships. With those opening clarifications, I'm very happy to accept the criticisms contained in the article, and commend both the author and Baron for publishing it.

I agree, Gandalf. I was surprised when I read those paragraphs and then checked again to see what the Baron had said. I predict that he will disown them. Unfortunate if he does, as it could have been a chance for a real breakthrough. I agree for the most part with the gist of the article which attempts to raise questions without name calling, without hysteria, and without bigotry, unlike our normal Islamophobic interlocutors do here in virtually every post. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Adamant

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Re: Open letter to moderate muslims
Reply #10 - Oct 10^th, 2014 at 8:12pm

wally1 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2014 at 5:26pm:

I dont understand this bloke.

He is athiest Muslim.That is confusing, so does he believe in God or not?

Atheist's. KNOW, NO GOD HAS EVER EXISTED!

Muslims.

Believe in fairy's, jinn's and all other mythological creatures as espoused by the most hateful, bigoted and racist prophet that has ever existed!

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In real life Gandalf is known as Mr 10%

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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: Open letter to moderate muslims Reply #11 - Oct 10^th, 2014 at 8:14pm wally1 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2014 at 5:26pm: I dont understand this bloke. He is athiest Muslim.That is confusing, so does he believe in God or not? Nice post- I haven't read the link of course but I trust the assertion is correct.
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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Open letter to moderate muslims
Reply #12 - Oct 10^th, 2014 at 8:19pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10^th, 2014 at 6:26pm:

wally1 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2014 at 5:26pm:

I dont understand this bloke.

He is athiest Muslim.That is confusing, so does he believe in God or not?

I would say he is an ex muslim when he says atheist muslim.

A jewish atheist would be an ex jew.

Do Agnostics believe in god?

Do atheists believe in Jinns or fairy tales?

A moment of levity, thank the lord

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: Open letter to moderate muslims Reply #13 - Oct 10^th, 2014 at 8:21pm Soren wrote on Oct 10^th, 2014 at 6:16pm: wally1 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2014 at 5:26pm: I dont understand this bloke. He is athiest Muslim.That is confusing, so does he believe in God or not? You have to think for yourself and so you are stumped. Who's surprised? A bit below the belt even for you I dare say matey
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ozzyoi

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Re: Open letter to moderate muslims
Reply #14 - Oct 11^th, 2014 at 12:27pm

Quote:

Do Agnostics believe in god?

Do atheists believe in Jinns or fairy tales?

One may need to look up the origins or those words and their meanings.

AG NOSTIC = UN - RECOGNIZABLE
(OBJECT), BUT ONE KNOWS SOMETHING IS THERE, NEEDS VISUAL PROOF.
------------------------,

A THEIST = ANTI - GOD
( NOT THERE AT ALL OR REFUSES TO COMPROMISE THAT THERE IS THE EXISTENCE OF A SPIRIT/CREATOR GREATER THAN THIS DIMENSION OF LIFE )

There is a God, once you remove the intellectual BS, pride and ego and organised religion from head-space, it's clearer within thoughts from intuition.

Read up, hope you seek and find it,
Clue: Sermon on the Mount !

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