Is it?

moses wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 4:40pm:


Everything you argue in this post makes sense until your last sentence.

Jews do accept their doctrine to be final and perfect and never to be changed, but they’re not violent aggressors.

Given your argument for the cause of militant Islam is Muhammed himself, how do you account for the non-violence of Jews and the example of their prophet Moses?

However, if what you’re arguing is that the belief in a literal and unchanging nature of Islamic doctrine is the cause of Islamic militarism, then we agree completely. To me, this literalist stream of thought is the enemy of life. It’s brutal, judgemental, callous and inflexible.

Muslims do not largely agree on an inflexible, literal interpretation of the Koran, and the Koran itself specifies that things don’t work that way. Islamic jurisprudence, for example, is largely interpretive, based on the judgements of Islamic scholars applying Islamic principles, not proscribed, immutible laws.

You could argue that there are more branches and schools of Islamic belief than there are in Christianity and Judaism, but the spectrum of Christian and Jewish beliefs is interesting too. There are pacifist Muslims. There are fighters. There are vegetarians, meat-eaters, mystics, literalists, poets, fundamentalists, singers, dancers, those who refuse to sing or dance. There are Muslim yogis, Muslim suicide bombers, Muslim intellectuals, Muslim knuckleheads, and all justify their actions through their professed submission to God. After all, Muslims are compelled to believe just this: there is no God but Allah and Muhammed is His prophet.

After that, all they should do is pray, fast at Ramadan, go to Mecca once, and give money to poor people. Some Muslims do these things; many don’t.

Most Muslims don’t read or follow the Koran, just as I doubt you’ve read your Bible. The ones who do have widely different views on what it all means.

But yes, those Muslim fundamentalists who believe in external jihad or Muslim conquest or Islamic supremacy are, I believe, completely misguided. I believe the same goes for Christians or Jews who think the same.

Submission to God is not an intellectual pursuit, but an internal committment. It’s not about obedience to a set of immutable rules, but a relationship with other beings and yourself. This requires compassion, service, meditation and some discipline. The Koran contains these teachings, just as it contains all the bloodthirsty stuff you like to read.

To understand Islam a little better, you need to know more than Herbie’s UK Daily Mail articles and Yadda’s Stormfront posts. It helps to actually know someone who follows this path. If all you want is a caricatured enemy, you can have one: pick anyone you like.

But if you want to engage with the world, yourself, and maybe even your God, you’ll find you need to let the enemies go.

Yes, many Muslims need to learn this too.

Karnal wrote: Quote:


Once again you shy away from the fact islamic doctrine is the root cause of islamic terrorism.

You are shackled I know by the fact that islam has only one prophet.

So their entire doctrine is based on the ranting of a blood crazed homicidal maniac and sexual deviate muhammad.

Judaic doctrine has many different human sources e.g.:

(I goggled O.T. prophets)  (I presume the Torah to be the same) there are:

48 Prophets:

1) Abraham 2) Isaac 3) Jacob 4) Moses 5) Aaron 6) Joshua 7) Pinchas the High Priest 8) Elkanah (father of Samuel) 9) Eli the High Priest 10) Samuel 11) Gad 12) Nathan 13) King David 14) King Solomon 15) Eido 16) Michiyahu ben Yimlah 17) Obadiah 18) Achiyah of Shiloh 19) Yahu ben Chanani 20) Azariah ben Oded 21) Chaziel son of Metaniah 22) Eliezer of Morisha 23) Hosea 24) Amos 25) Micah 26) Amotz 27) Elijah 28) Elisha 29) Jonah 30) Isaiah 31) Joel 32) Nahum 33) Habakkuk 34) Zephaniah 35) Uriah from Kiryat Yearim 36) Jeremiah 37) Ezekiel 38) Shmaya 39) Baruch 40) Neriah 41) Seriah 42) Mechasiah 43) Haggai 44) Zechariah 45) Malachi 46) Mordechai 47) Chanani 48) Oded

7 Prophetesses:

1) Sarah (wife of Abraham, mother of all Jews) 2) Miriam (sister to Moses) 3) Deborah (the only female among the Judges) 4) Chanah (mother of Samuel) 5) Abigail 6) Chuldah 7) Esther (of Purim fame)

Maybe the number of prophets prophetesses has got something to do with it, maybe the Jews having an extremely higher I.Q. than muslims are better equiped to live in the 21st century, maybe islamic inbreding has got something to do with it, who knows?

I do know that muslims who commit atrocities quote their doctrine as justification, despite the best efforts of apologists, it is an inviolable fact islamic doctrine causes terrorism.

If muslims aren't prepared to critically examine their doctrine but choose to accept it as final, perfect and unchangeable, then they accept the atrocities their doctrine causes.

freediver wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 7:50pm:


Sometimes a question is just a question, FD.

I like the one about the good Muslims on here who want to take away the Freeeedom of decent white people.

I must admit, I can’t imagine Mo ordering them to do that.

Did the good Muslims make that one up themselves?

moses wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2014 at 6:27pm:


Sounds like you’re saying you don’t know, Moses. Fair enough.

I agree. I don’t know either, but I’m not blaming Muslims for what Mo did, or Mo for what Muslims do. I don’t generally blame Jews snd Christians for what prophets, saints, popes, priests and rabbis have done throughout history either. I do blame some Muslims, Christians and Jews for twisting the words of prophets in order to distance themselves from others. I don’t blame them all.

Interestingly, your IQ idea could be seen by some as indicating a racial element to all this.

We’ll keep that one to ourselves, eh?

Don’t tell FD.

Go ahead. Try the Aussie Muslims board.

Inbreeding is bad, regardless of race, BTW.