Australian Politics Forum - Why are Scientists always "WRONG"

General True Blue

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Why are Scientists always "WRONG"
Sep 17^th, 2014 at 6:57pm

it's like they enjoy being wrong..

or is it that they just swing with the tide to get the "tax payers" dollar?

Quote:

Sugar could be worse for your blood pressure than salt, shock new research reveals
For years the public have been urged to slash their salt intake
It had been thought salt increases the risk of strokes by a quarter and it has been blamed on 3 million deaths worldwide annually
But study claims sugar is more related to blood pressure than sodium

Sugar - not salt - is to blame for high blood pressure, US researchers claim.

They argue that high sugar levels affect a key area of the brain which causes the heart rate to quicken and blood pressure to rise.

The scientists from New York and Kansas also highlight a recent study of 8,670 French adults which found no link between salt and high blood pressure.

For years the public have been urged to slash their salt intake and guidelines state it should be restricted to a teaspoon a day.

Experts say it increases the risk of strokes by a quarter and it has been blamed on 3 million deaths worldwide annually.

But in an article in the American Journal of Cardiology, researchers led by Dr James DiNicolantonio state ‘It is sugar not the salt that may be the actual causative factor for high blood pressure.

‘This notion is supported by meta analyses of randomised control trials (large-scale studies) suggesting that sugar is more strongly related to blood pressure in humans than sodium.

For years the public have been urged to slash their salt intake and guidelines state it should be restricted to a teaspoon a day

for years the public have been urged to slash their salt intake and guidelines state it should be restricted to a teaspoon a day

‘Encouraging consumers to hold the sugar, not the salt, may be the better dietary strategy to achieve blood pressure control

thoughts?

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"its not rocket surgery"

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Laugh till you cry Gold Member Offline Posts: 13879 In your happy place Gender:	Re: Why are Scientists always "WRONG" Reply #1 - Sep 17^th, 2014 at 7:00pm Next they will be absolving cigarettes, alcohol and dope.
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General True Blue Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 144 Gender:	Re: Why are Scientists always "WRONG" Reply #2 - Sep 17^th, 2014 at 7:04pm Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 17^th, 2014 at 7:00pm: Next they will be absolving cigarettes, alcohol and dope. you don't have to be a rocket surgeon to work that one out for yourself..
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red baron Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10204 Blue Mountains Gender:	Re: Why are Scientists always "WRONG" Reply #3 - Sep 17^th, 2014 at 7:20pm How about eat whatever you like but in moderation. People unnecessarily send themselves batty over what they should and should not eat. Eat well, sleep well, exercise well oh yes and the most important one, love well, simple as that.
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longweekend58

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Re: Why are Scientists always "WRONG"
Reply #4 - Sep 17^th, 2014 at 7:24pm

General True Blue wrote on Sep 17^th, 2014 at 7:04pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Sep 17^th, 2014 at 7:00pm:

Next they will be absolving cigarettes, alcohol and dope.

you don't have to be a rocket surgeon to work that one out for yourself..

although up until the 50s smoking was considered good for your health.

same with the cholesterol scare when then got modified to GOOD cholesterol and BAD cholesterol and even now, the relationship between yoru cholesterol level and heart attacks is more circumstantial than proven.

Thalidomode anyone?

The ether theory?

the point is that science is amazing and fabulous and worthy of our support. Just not our gullibility or our blind trust. we leave that to climate hysterics.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Re: Why are Scientists always "WRONG"
Reply #5 - Sep 17^th, 2014 at 7:54pm

General True Blue wrote on Sep 17^th, 2014 at 6:57pm:

thoughts?

People just try to be a bit too academic when it comes to food, rather than listening to their body.

You can tell yourself that that chocolate bar is "good for you" and justify it with some attention-grabbing headline you saw once, but deep down inside, I think pretty much everyone knows they're lying to themselves.

But your body is not fooled.

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In the fullness of time...

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General True Blue

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Re: Why are Scientists always "WRONG"
Reply #6 - Sep 17^th, 2014 at 8:14pm

ok, as some of you may know..

I've lost over 10 kilograms of late...

I did NO extra exercise.. now one pushup..

I did it by eating all natural FRESH foods...

no canned foods, no preservatives, no artificianything, no frozen dinners etc etc etc... nothing

milk.. drink what comes straight out of the cow for crying out loud.. meat? cook it up and eat it, just don't eat great lumps of fat..

don't be obsessed by fat.. just trim off the lumps..

put in a bit of salt while cooking...

eat REAL BUTTER.. not margarines..

the thing that makes people fat is, GET THIS

Quantity... Shocked

stick to the ONE CUP rule...

smoko...... one cup of soup
lunch........one cup of soup or stew
dinner...... one cup of stew

fresh stew full of meat, or chicken, vegetables... eat more fruit etc..

its not rocket surgery... we just eat TOO MUCH.

why?

because we can... big fat aussies stuffing their faces until they die and then wonder why.. Roll Eyes

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"its not rocket surgery"

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General True Blue

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Re: Why are Scientists always "WRONG"
Reply #7 - Sep 17^th, 2014 at 8:21pm

but oh, guess what...

some nitwit academic will come along and give a great long list of reasons why aussies are so freaking fat and unhealthy...

don't eat this and don't eat that..

lets get all complicated and see if we can get a government grant etc.. Roll Eyes

when the "real" reason is simply "quantity"..

oh wow.. im a freaking genius.. Roll Eyes

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"its not rocket surgery"

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longweekend58

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Re: Why are Scientists always "WRONG"
Reply #8 - Sep 17^th, 2014 at 8:26pm

General True Blue wrote on Sep 17^th, 2014 at 8:21pm:

but oh, guess what...

some nitwit academic will come along and give a great long list of reasons why aussies are so freaking fat and unhealthy...

don't eat this and don't eat that..

lets get all complicated and see if we can get a government grant etc.. Roll Eyes

when the "real" reason is simply "quantity"..

oh wow.. im a freaking genius.. Roll Eyes

if it were that simple you WOULD be a genius. however it still remains unequivocally true that if you eat more than you burn you will gain weight and if you burn more than you eat you will lose weight. where it goes or comes off is another question.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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General True Blue

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Re: Why are Scientists always "WRONG"
Reply #9 - Sep 17^th, 2014 at 8:37pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 17^th, 2014 at 8:26pm:

General True Blue wrote on Sep 17^th, 2014 at 8:21pm:

but oh, guess what...

some nitwit academic will come along and give a great long list of reasons why aussies are so freaking fat and unhealthy...

don't eat this and don't eat that..

lets get all complicated and see if we can get a government grant etc.. Roll Eyes

when the "real" reason is simply "quantity"..

oh wow.. im a freaking genius.. Roll Eyes

if it were that simple you WOULD be a genius. however it still remains unequivocally true that if you eat more than you burn you will gain weight and if you burn more than you eat you will lose weight. where it goes or comes off is another question.

it is that simple..

but,

I've lost more off my bum that I had anticipated.. I need to lose more off me guts.. Grin

overall, lost all over with everything getting loose, just seems more off me butt than other areas..

but once you get down in weight.. it seems to be evening out over time..

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"its not rocket surgery"

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Mnemonic

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Re: Why are Scientists always "WRONG"
Reply #10 - Sep 17^th, 2014 at 8:47pm

General True Blue wrote on Sep 17^th, 2014 at 6:57pm:

Sugar could be worse for your blood pressure than salt, shock new research reveals
For years the public have been urged to slash their salt intake
It had been thought salt increases the risk of strokes by a quarter and it has been blamed on 3 million deaths worldwide annually
But study claims sugar is more related to blood pressure than sodium

Sugar - not salt - is to blame for high blood pressure, US researchers claim.

They argue that high sugar levels affect a key area of the brain which causes the heart rate to quicken and blood pressure to rise.

The scientists from New York and Kansas also highlight a recent study of 8,670 French adults which found no link between salt and high blood pressure.

Ah, so it's either the increase in surface tension caused by sodium ions or it's the higher pulse rate caused by sugar.

The human body is such a non-linear system that you can't really "predict" whether it's sugar or salt that is more likely to cause health problems. Besides, there are so many differences between individuals that who can really say for sure? The human body is resilient enough to cope with the amounts of the junk (safe enough not to kill us, but maybe not good in the long-term) we ingest that it doesn't become a problem until this non-linear system finally breaks down.

Health experts rely mainly on statistics, not on simulations. That's the problem. Nobody has developed a mathematical model to predict how salt or sugar affects our bodies. There are just too many physiological variations in human body systems.

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Freedumb

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Re: Why are Scientists always "WRONG"
Reply #11 - Sep 17^th, 2014 at 9:05pm

General True Blue wrote on Sep 17^th, 2014 at 8:21pm:

but oh, guess what...

some nitwit academic will come along and give a great long list of reasons why aussies are so freaking fat and unhealthy...

don't eat this and don't eat that..

lets get all complicated and see if we can get a government grant etc.. Roll Eyes

when the "real" reason is simply "quantity"..

oh wow.. im a freaking genius.. Roll Eyes

You are right, in combination with physical activity -- physical activity can be something as simple as house chores or walking the dog.
The reasons why the "experts" preach the carrot stick diet and the eight hours at gym per day BS is because both gyms and organic healthy foods are a huge money making industry.
One could argue that fast food is also a money generating industry, but both answers are correct.
If you go into a supermarket you'll notice that it's much cheaper to buy the organic health approved product than the unhealthy one. Junk food is cheaper than healthy food. Funnily enough, if you study those "lo-fat" or "lo-carb" energy bars you'll find that one is substituted for the other and has double the amount of which isn't good for you, making it no better than a chocolate bar.
You also need to take into account that many different things can contribute to obesity -- medication is an example. With some medications, you could eat like a rabbit and still gain cholesterol. In this day and age, medication is prescribed to every Tom, Dick and Harry for various reasons.

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Nothing would be what it is,
Because everything would be what it isn't.
And contrary-wise - what it is, it wouldn't be.
And what it wouldn't be, it would.
You see?

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Freedumb Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1101 WA Gender:	Re: Why are Scientists always "WRONG" Reply #12 - Sep 17^th, 2014 at 9:06pm And this, my friends, is why I don't put my complete and utter faith in credibility approved scientists.
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Kytro

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Re: Why are Scientists always "WRONG"
Reply #13 - Sep 17^th, 2014 at 9:21pm

General True Blue wrote on Sep 17^th, 2014 at 6:57pm:

it's like they enjoy being wrong..

or is it that they just swing with the tide to get the "tax payers" dollar?

thoughts?

If we knew all the answers, we wouldn't need to do research.

Body chemistry is extremely complex, and subject to genetic and environmental variation. Not every idea turns out to be true, and when it comes what is healthy eating we are a long way from a definitive answer. Many of the basics are good (like don't over-indulge) but things affect people differently making it harder to pinpoint causes.

This isn't a failure of science though, it's progress. You can't deny the impact science has had in terms of technological progress. It works better than anything else.

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Mnemonic Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1530 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Why are Scientists always "WRONG" Reply #14 - Sep 17^th, 2014 at 9:35pm Freedumb wrote on Sep 17^th, 2014 at 9:05pm: With some medications, you could eat like a rabbit and still gain cholesterol. In this day and age, medication is prescribed to every Tom, Dick and Harry for various reasons. Yep, that's right. It's the money and commercialisation that makes you fat.
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