Australian Politics Forum - Julian Assange true Australian hero may be freed

Mnemonic

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Re: Julian Assange true Australian hero may be freed
Reply #30 - Aug 28^th, 2014 at 5:33pm

AiA wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 12:08am:

Assange is a hero, as is Snowden. Don't think either one of them will lead a very happy life however ...

Assange isn't a hero, not by my standards anyway. He didn't endure hardship of the kind that I would admire. For Assange to be a hero, he had to be as honourable as Rebiya Kadeer.

Unfortunately, he is nowhere near as honourable as Rebiya Kadeer. This was a guy who received sexual favours outside of marriage, doesn't have a stable family and has various illicit children (bastards) born out of wedlock. Assange is a man without honour. He is not a hero. He doesn't deserve the kind of recognition that true heroes like Rebiya Kadeer should receive.

Rebiya Kadeer dug herself out of dirt and grime.

Assange is a decadent, white collar narcissist who has spent most of his life in developed countries and doesn't have the stamina or mettle to endure years of mud and dirt being shoved in his face.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 12:11am:

Happiness is relative. Some people sacrifice for the greater good. Neither of these two heros did it for the money.

For a person to really be a hero, they have to have experienced excruciating hardship.

Like I said, a father of bastards does not deserve our admiration. This philanderer (Assange) needs a slap in the face.

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Mnemonic

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Re: Julian Assange true Australian hero may be freed
Reply #31 - Aug 28^th, 2014 at 5:40pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 12:15am:

The Swedes are renowned stooges of the USA and it appears Assange was set up by the two bimbos alleging that he didn't wear a condom during consensual sex. There is no question that there was any act that was not consensual on the part of the bimbos.

The bimbos probably got well paid for their services by USA.

This is the trouble with this modern culture of free sex. Men wouldn't be getting in trouble for "unwanted sex" in the first place if they had the "honour" to resist taking advantage of women. My view is, a man should not have sex with a woman outside of marriage even if she says "yes" and "wants it."

Sex is personal, especially for women. What you do before, during and after sex matters. Sex is not just a physical act and to truly respect a woman before, during and after sex, you must promise a lifetime of love and respect. This doesn't happen in today's culture of free and "no obligation" sex, where you can leave whenever you want. This means that truly dignified and respectable sex can only happen inside of marriage.

If you call them bimbos, you're blaming the women. How is that fair?

The free sex culture is mostly a pro-male one, where men can obtain sexual pleasure without first promising a lifetime of love and respect. A good man will do the right thing and wait for marriage. Free sex is male exploitation. A man who has sex outside of marriage has no honour.

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Laugh till you cry

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Re: Julian Assange true Australian hero may be freed
Reply #32 - Aug 28^th, 2014 at 6:12pm

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 5:40pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 12:15am:

The Swedes are renowned stooges of the USA and it appears Assange was set up by the two bimbos alleging that he didn't wear a condom during consensual sex. There is no question that there was any act that was not consensual on the part of the bimbos.

The bimbos probably got well paid for their services by USA.

This is the trouble with this modern culture of free sex. Men wouldn't be getting in trouble for "unwanted sex" in the first place if they had the "honour" to resist taking advantage of women. My view is, a man should not have sex with a woman outside of marriage even if she says "yes" and "wants it."

Sex is personal, especially for women. What you do before, during and after sex matters. Sex is not just a physical act and to truly respect a woman before, during and after sex, you must promise a lifetime of love and respect. This doesn't happen in today's culture of free and "no obligation" sex, where you can leave whenever you want. This means that truly dignified and respectable sex can only happen inside of marriage.

If you call them bimbos, you're blaming the women. How is that fair?

The free sex culture is mostly a pro-male one, where men can obtain sexual pleasure without first promising a lifetime of love and respect. A good man will do the right thing and wait for marriage. Free sex is male exploitation. A man who has sex outside of marriage has no honour.

You seem to be a professional virgin.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Julian Assange true Australian hero may be freed
Reply #33 - Aug 28^th, 2014 at 9:01pm

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 11:29am:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 12:05am:

My question is, what was stopping the US swearing out an extradition warrant against Assange when he was in the UK? Why do they have to wait until he's in Swedish custody? The US has an extradition treaty with the UK, so that part of the Assange story doesn't add up.

Perhap as as Karnal suggests, "sometimes a question is just a question" and perhaps the Swedes want Assange for, *GASP* sexual assault questioning, rather than to do the bidding of the US Justice department?

Of course, what was stopping the US intelligence services from grabbing Assange off the streets of the UK, like they have so many Terrorist suspects in other countries?

Sorry, I tend to think the whole Assange saga is a whole lot of attention seeking BS.

I imagine the extradition treaties between the UK and European counties is much easier then the standard UK/USA/Aust extradition treaties. EG the Aust/UK extradition treaty does not impose a duty on Aust to extradite someone for what is effectively questioning a suspect (quite an absurd idea when you think about it). Most extradition treaties and certainly the one between UK and the USA have what they call a duel criminality clause. That is, you have to show that the conduct for which the person is wanted in the requesting country is also a crime in the holding country. Also the requesting country needs to issue a warrant for that person's arrest on the charges for which his extradition is being sought. So I think the answer to your question rest with this (i) has the USA charged Assange with a criminal offence and issued a warrant for his arrest on those charges and if so (and I don't know the answer to that question) (ii) what are those charges and would the same conduct if undertaken in the UK have amounted to a crime in the UK. Last I heard it is not an offence for journalists to ply their trade in the UK.

PS Sorry there is a third thing also. The standard non European UK extradition treaties also include a prima facie case requirement. That is the requesting country must satisfy the holding country that they (the requesting country) have enough evidence against the accused to amount to a prima facie case against him/her; that is a case which on its face raises isuues of the defendants guilt which if left unanswered would result in a conviction. Its a high standard test and one whioch the americans might wisely have felt (along woith other issues ) that they could not have satisfied. Much better to get their lackey co@k suc%ing friends in the sweedish conservative govt to get hold of him and then get them to hand him over. God Bless Ecuador.

I agree with most of your points but the pragmatist in me points out that if the US wanted Julian, they'd have grabbed him long before he scuttled off to the Ecuadorian Embassy. According to the US Government, Wikileaks has done irrepairable damage to US Foreign Policy (despite the fact most of it's revelations merely confirm what various "inside" books written by journalists have been saying after they were told by the various US politicians and leaders whom were involved in said diplomacy). If they wanted him, do you really think they wouldn't have already sworn out a warrant for his arrest?

Sorry, this whole thing just sounds like attention seeking by someone who wants to avoid going in the slammer for his sexual indiscretions. Roll Eyes

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Julian Assange true Australian hero may be freed
Reply #34 - Aug 28^th, 2014 at 9:40pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 9:01pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 11:29am:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 12:05am:

My question is, what was stopping the US swearing out an extradition warrant against Assange when he was in the UK? Why do they have to wait until he's in Swedish custody? The US has an extradition treaty with the UK, so that part of the Assange story doesn't add up.

Perhap as as Karnal suggests, "sometimes a question is just a question" and perhaps the Swedes want Assange for, *GASP* sexual assault questioning, rather than to do the bidding of the US Justice department?

Of course, what was stopping the US intelligence services from grabbing Assange off the streets of the UK, like they have so many Terrorist suspects in other countries?

Sorry, I tend to think the whole Assange saga is a whole lot of attention seeking BS.

I imagine the extradition treaties between the UK and European counties is much easier then the standard UK/USA/Aust extradition treaties. EG the Aust/UK extradition treaty does not impose a duty on Aust to extradite someone for what is effectively questioning a suspect (quite an absurd idea when you think about it). Most extradition treaties and certainly the one between UK and the USA have what they call a duel criminality clause. That is, you have to show that the conduct for which the person is wanted in the requesting country is also a crime in the holding country. Also the requesting country needs to issue a warrant for that person's arrest on the charges for which his extradition is being sought. So I think the answer to your question rest with this (i) has the USA charged Assange with a criminal offence and issued a warrant for his arrest on those charges and if so (and I don't know the answer to that question) (ii) what are those charges and would the same conduct if undertaken in the UK have amounted to a crime in the UK. Last I heard it is not an offence for journalists to ply their trade in the UK.

PS Sorry there is a third thing also. The standard non European UK extradition treaties also include a prima facie case requirement. That is the requesting country must satisfy the holding country that they (the requesting country) have enough evidence against the accused to amount to a prima facie case against him/her; that is a case which on its face raises isuues of the defendants guilt which if left unanswered would result in a conviction. Its a high standard test and one whioch the americans might wisely have felt (along woith other issues ) that they could not have satisfied. Much better to get their lackey co@k suc%ing friends in the sweedish conservative govt to get hold of him and then get them to hand him over. God Bless Ecuador.

I agree with most of your points but the pragmatist in me points out that if the US wanted Julian, they'd have grabbed him long before he scuttled off to the Ecuadorian Embassy. According to the US Government, Wikileaks has done irrepairable damage to US Foreign Policy (despite the fact most of it's revelations merely confirm what various "inside" books written by journalists have been saying after they were told by the various US politicians and leaders whom were involved in said diplomacy). If they wanted him, do you really think they wouldn't have already sworn out a warrant for his arrest?

Sorry, this whole thing just sounds like attention seeking by someone who wants to avoid going in the slammer for his sexual indiscretions. Roll Eyes

I think you answered the question yourself. You said (correctly I believe) that "According to the US Government, Wikileaks has done irrepairable damage to US Foreign Policy" . And even though much of what Wikileaks exposed was already out there, what they did was (i) put the international spotlight on just how nasty the US is and (ii) how incompetent their security apparatus was to be breached sooo resoundly. And on top of that there were heaps of people in the US calling for him to be imprisoned and even executed. No, if I was Assange I would never have gone to Sweden esp since it was and still is the easiest thing in the world for them to send a prosecutor to the UK and question him there.

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Laugh till you cry

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Re: Julian Assange true Australian hero may be freed
Reply #35 - Aug 29^th, 2014 at 12:12am

The conflict could be resolved by the Swedish government giving an assurance it will not extradite Assange to the USA which it is blatantly refusing to do. Apparently the government has the authority to provide such an assurance irrespective of whatever courts decide in regard to extradition. The government can decline to extradite a person even if the court has ruled in favour of extradition.

Assange has stated that he would return to Sweden for questioning in case such an assurance was given.

The Swedish government is being devious and dishonest.

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