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200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill,... (Read 3241 times)
BatteriesNotIncluded
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200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill,...
Aug 21st, 2014 at 6:35pm
 
200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill, Suggests Academic: 100-Mile Range Is The Sweet Spot
AUGUST 19, 2014 BY NIKKI GORDON-BLOOMFIELD


It’s the same reason restaurants needlessly pile our plates ever-higher with far more than our dietary needs dictate: the more you get, the more you want.
But like picking an all-you-can eat buffet over a modest meal off the menu, car buyers will always pick size, performance and — in the case of electric cars — range over more sensible notions like affordability, common sense and scientific data.

Which car would you choose? Turns out the LEAF may be the smarter option.

As a consequence those whose needs might be met by a medium-range electric car like a Nissan LEAF or Chevrolet Spark might find themselves lusting after a range-extended electric car like the BMW i3 REx or Chevrolet Volt instead — just to make sure. Even those considering a Tesla Model S will find that their fear of running out of charge, however irrational, will cause them to spend extra money and opt for the longer-range 85 kilowatt-hour Tesla Model S over the bast model 60 kilowatt-hour model.
Yet the purchase decision to opt for a longer-range electric vehicle in order to mimic the range capabilities of a traditional gasoline or diesel car is both illogical and financially unsound, argues a new report (via GreenCarReports) from a senior researcher at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Knoxville, Tennessee.

The study, entitled  Optimizing and Diversifying Electric Vehicle Driving Range for U.S. Drivers, personal transportation requirements of more than 36,500 drivers in the U.S., examining their individual driving patterns and “household flexibility” to see just what kind of ranges an electric car would need to be in order to allow a switch from gasoline to electric. Moreover, it calculated how electric car range would change as the cost of lithium-ion battery packs decreases and the number of public charging stations increased.

For now, sub-100 mile electric cars make the best financial sense.

What it found was that electric cars with ranges of less than 100 miles are far more cost effective to buy and a far more logical financial decision over longer range electric cars — at least until the cost of battery packs fall to less than $100 per kilowatt-hour.
Based on our own experience of electric car ranges, we’d have to agree. While it’s nice to have a car capable of driving more than 250 miles per charge, the reality of everyday driving is that in most cases a range of under 100 miles will suffice. When it comes to longer-distance driving, being able to rapid charge every few hours in the time it takes to grab a meal or a coffee is enough.

What’s more, the money you’ll save on buying a larger-range electric vehicle can be spent elsewhere: buy a second plug-in car, or perhaps even save up for that next-generation battery pack several years in the future.
Of course, we don’t always do what’s best for our wallets, ruling with our hearts sometimes rather than our heads. But do you agree that 100-miles is more than enough for your daily driving needs? And would you seriously consider spending less on a smaller-range car if you could save money in the long run?

http://transportevolved.com/2014/08/19/200-mile-electric-cars-overkill-suggests-...
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ian
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Re: 200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill,...
Reply #1 - Aug 21st, 2014 at 8:22pm
 
what a load of crap. And as we all know like anything else that "100 km" range will be plus or minus 25 percent or so. Cars have 400 km ranges for as reason.
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: 200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill,...
Reply #2 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 3:59pm
 
ian wrote on Aug 21st, 2014 at 8:22pm:
what a load of crap. And as we all know like anything else that "100 km" range will be plus or minus 25 percent or so. Cars have 400 km ranges for as reason.

Fair enough, plus or minus 25%... but so the thread can be rendered intelligible do you think a 200 mile(so I suppose a ~320 km) range is asking too much?

Personally I don't think so as they are a legitimate commercial demand  but I posted the thread and article as it warrants discussion in my book....
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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ian
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Re: 200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill,...
Reply #3 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 4:06pm
 
well i misread it. 100 miles is about 160 kms. In my book an electric car with a range of 160 kms give or take 25 percent probably would be about right for most trips. The issue of course would be much shorter battery life with increased frequency of charging, this is the major problem with electric cars at the moment, battery cost. No electric car can compete with other fuels at the moment because of this.
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: 200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill,...
Reply #4 - Aug 22nd, 2014 at 6:12pm
 
ian wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 4:06pm:
well i misread it. 100 miles is about 160 kms. In my book an electric car with a range of 160 kms give or take 25 percent probably would be about right for most trips. The issue of course would be much shorter battery life with increased frequency of charging, this is the major problem with electric cars at the moment, battery cost. No electric car can compete with other fuels at the moment because of this.

fair enough: batteries are a known nuisance!
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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Panther
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Re: 200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill,...
Reply #5 - Oct 25th, 2014 at 12:53pm
 
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 6:12pm:
ian wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 4:06pm:
well i misread it. 100 miles is about 160 kms. In my book an electric car with a range of 160 kms give or take 25 percent probably would be about right for most trips. The issue of course would be much shorter battery life with increased frequency of charging, this is the major problem with electric cars at the moment, battery cost. No electric car can compete with other fuels at the moment because of this.

fair enough: batteries are a known nuisance!


And, while we're at it........
PRICE
......Would an electric car, with batteries that 'might' last longer, be within the average drivers budget, or would they be way too high ($35,000+ is out there)?

What will the average cost of replacing the battery fuel cells when they eventually fail?

Next, why electric.....to lower pollution?

If so, aren't we exchanging pollution out of the tailpipe, with pollution out of the smoke stack?

If you're saying alternative sources of electric energy, then will the cost of fuel (electricity) be the same, lower, or higher than fossil fueled electric power generation?

I guess what I'm asking, will it be less expensive for the average family, who may or may not be able to afford the car in the first place, or more expensive for that average family -- effectively making it an unrealistic proposition.

In the end, will the electric car really fly, or is that just wishful thinking ---- minus the thinking part?

Thanks in advance for your time, & knowledge. ...   


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« Last Edit: Oct 25th, 2014 at 1:12pm by Panther »  

"When the People fear government there is Tyranny;
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: 200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill,...
Reply #6 - Oct 27th, 2014 at 2:22pm
 
Panther wrote on Oct 25th, 2014 at 12:53pm:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 6:12pm:
ian wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 4:06pm:
well i misread it. 100 miles is about 160 kms. In my book an electric car with a range of 160 kms give or take 25 percent probably would be about right for most trips. The issue of course would be much shorter battery life with increased frequency of charging, this is the major problem with electric cars at the moment, battery cost. No electric car can compete with other fuels at the moment because of this.

fair enough: batteries are a known nuisance!


And, while we're at it........
PRICE
......Would an electric car, with batteries that 'might' last longer, be within the average drivers budget, or would they be way too high ($35,000+ is out there)?

What will the average cost of replacing the battery fuel cells when they eventually fail?

Next, why electric.....to lower pollution?

If so, aren't we exchanging pollution out of the tailpipe, with pollution out of the smoke stack?

If you're saying alternative sources of electric energy, then will the cost of fuel (electricity) be the same, lower, or higher than fossil fueled electric power generation?

I guess what I'm asking, will it be less expensive for the average family, who may or may not be able to afford the car in the first place, or more expensive for that average family -- effectively making it an unrealistic proposition.

In the end, will the electric car really fly, or is that just wishful thinking ---- minus the thinking part?

Thanks in advance for your time, & knowledge. http://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif   



Firstly, you get full points for asking the right questions.

Price is it. Opportunity cost, however, is the more basic concept underpinning all ideas of what is economic if we were to come closer to the point.

Stagnation is close to death. For me the price answer will be answered by the second hand electric car market (as most people simply don't buy new cars) making your question about the replacement of the battery the most important in my book. Ian brought up the idea of increased charging decreasing the value of the battery being able to hold a charge, which we all know is true with mobile devices so it will take the public a long time to accept electric vehicles as being anything less than a safety issue, basically, i think- let alone a reliability issue.

I certainly have my doubts too but I simply hope those issues will be solved and they won't be solved in my mind until they start getting bought in massive numbers so we have a catch 22 situation...

Of course, if fossil fuels still pump out the electricity to fill them the concept of electric vehicles is dead in the water.
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« Last Edit: Oct 27th, 2014 at 2:27pm by BatteriesNotIncluded »  

*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: 200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill,...
Reply #7 - Oct 27th, 2014 at 2:26pm
 
"In the end, will the electric car really fly, or is that just wishful thinking ---- minus the thinking part?"


To directly address this comment I would say the concept of opportunity cost- which underpins the concept of price - means electric cars will be developed to such a degree even you will have to be impressed.
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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Panther
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Re: 200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill,...
Reply #8 - Oct 27th, 2014 at 4:14pm
 
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Oct 27th, 2014 at 2:22pm:
Panther wrote on Oct 25th, 2014 at 12:53pm:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 6:12pm:
ian wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 4:06pm:
well i misread it. 100 miles is about 160 kms. In my book an electric car with a range of 160 kms give or take 25 percent probably would be about right for most trips. The issue of course would be much shorter battery life with increased frequency of charging, this is the major problem with electric cars at the moment, battery cost. No electric car can compete with other fuels at the moment because of this.

fair enough: batteries are a known nuisance!


And, while we're at it........
PRICE
......Would an electric car, with batteries that 'might' last longer, be within the average drivers budget, or would they be way too high ($35,000+ is out there)?

What will the average cost of replacing the battery fuel cells when they eventually fail?

Next, why electric.....to lower pollution?

If so, aren't we exchanging pollution out of the tailpipe, with pollution out of the smoke stack?

If you're saying alternative sources of electric energy, then will the cost of fuel (electricity) be the same, lower, or higher than fossil fueled electric power generation?

I guess what I'm asking, will it be less expensive for the average family, who may or may not be able to afford the car in the first place, or more expensive for that average family -- effectively making it an unrealistic proposition.

In the end, will the electric car really fly, or is that just wishful thinking ---- minus the thinking part?

Thanks in advance for your time, & knowledge. http://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif   



Firstly, you get full points for asking the right questions.

Price is it. Opportunity cost, however, is the more basic concept underpinning all ideas of what is economic if we were to come closer to the point.

Stagnation is close to death. For me the price answer will be answered by the second hand electric car market (as most people simply don't buy new cars) making your question about the replacement of the battery the most important in my book. Ian brought up the idea of increased charging decreasing the value of the battery being able to hold a charge, which we all know is true with mobile devices so it will take the public a long time to accept electric vehicles as being anything less than a safety issue, basically, i think- let alone a reliability issue.

I certainly have my doubts too but I simply hope those issues will be solved and they won't be solved in my mind until they start getting bought in massive numbers so we have a catch 22 situation...

Of course, if fossil fuels still pump out the electricity to fill them the concept of electric vehicles is dead in the water.


You only have to look at the sales figures in the USA to see that the concept meant well, but the feasibility issue(s) spun it straight to hell.

Sales never took off, & predictions are they never will, with whatever is selling to slump further yet..........except that is to the ultra-wealthy who need something new to talk about, & the 'squeeze-till-it-splinters' die hard tree huggers who need to be seen as doing something 'green' simply for green sake.

In the end, merely a brilliant idea that meant well, but turned into just an expensive fad that couldn't be made to work comfortably in the main stream.

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DaS Energy
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Re: 200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill,...
Reply #9 - Oct 28th, 2014 at 1:29pm
 

Cant find how many Kilowatts are taken from the grid to replace the Kilowatts stored in the batteries. Nor the recharge time from flat to full.
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Re: 200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill,...
Reply #10 - Oct 28th, 2014 at 7:45pm
 
DaS Energy wrote on Oct 28th, 2014 at 1:29pm:
Cant find how many Kilowatts are taken from the grid to replace the Kilowatts stored in the batteries. Nor the recharge time from flat to full.

Good point:
if the needed stats for customer comfort aren't there then the tech simply aint selling to the public for a good circa ten years atleast.... in any meaningful way that is!
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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Re: 200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill,...
Reply #11 - Oct 28th, 2014 at 7:47pm
 
Panther wrote on Oct 27th, 2014 at 4:14pm:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Oct 27th, 2014 at 2:22pm:
Panther wrote on Oct 25th, 2014 at 12:53pm:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 6:12pm:
ian wrote on Aug 22nd, 2014 at 4:06pm:
well i misread it. 100 miles is about 160 kms. In my book an electric car with a range of 160 kms give or take 25 percent probably would be about right for most trips. The issue of course would be much shorter battery life with increased frequency of charging, this is the major problem with electric cars at the moment, battery cost. No electric car can compete with other fuels at the moment because of this.

fair enough: batteries are a known nuisance!


And, while we're at it........
PRICE
......Would an electric car, with batteries that 'might' last longer, be within the average drivers budget, or would they be way too high ($35,000+ is out there)?

What will the average cost of replacing the battery fuel cells when they eventually fail?

Next, why electric.....to lower pollution?

If so, aren't we exchanging pollution out of the tailpipe, with pollution out of the smoke stack?

If you're saying alternative sources of electric energy, then will the cost of fuel (electricity) be the same, lower, or higher than fossil fueled electric power generation?

I guess what I'm asking, will it be less expensive for the average family, who may or may not be able to afford the car in the first place, or more expensive for that average family -- effectively making it an unrealistic proposition.

In the end, will the electric car really fly, or is that just wishful thinking ---- minus the thinking part?

Thanks in advance for your time, & knowledge. http://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif   



Firstly, you get full points for asking the right questions.

Price is it. Opportunity cost, however, is the more basic concept underpinning all ideas of what is economic if we were to come closer to the point.

Stagnation is close to death. For me the price answer will be answered by the second hand electric car market (as most people simply don't buy new cars) making your question about the replacement of the battery the most important in my book. Ian brought up the idea of increased charging decreasing the value of the battery being able to hold a charge, which we all know is true with mobile devices so it will take the public a long time to accept electric vehicles as being anything less than a safety issue, basically, i think- let alone a reliability issue.

I certainly have my doubts too but I simply hope those issues will be solved and they won't be solved in my mind until they start getting bought in massive numbers so we have a catch 22 situation...

Of course, if fossil fuels still pump out the electricity to fill them the concept of electric vehicles is dead in the water.


You only have to look at the sales figures in the USA to see that the concept meant well, but the feasibility issue(s) spun it straight to hell.

Sales never took off, & predictions are they never will, with whatever is selling to slump further yet..........except that is to the ultra-wealthy who need something new to talk about, & the 'squeeze-till-it-splinters' die hard tree huggers who need to be seen as doing something 'green' simply for green sake.

In the end, merely a brilliant idea that meant well, but turned into just an expensive fad that couldn't be made to work comfortably in the main stream.


Something tells me you just start murmurs..

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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DifferentFrequency
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Re: 200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill,...
Reply #12 - Nov 18th, 2014 at 11:44pm
 
Depends on the size of the land mass you live on. Tongue
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: 200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill,...
Reply #13 - Nov 19th, 2014 at 12:00am
 
DifferentFrequency wrote on Nov 18th, 2014 at 11:44pm:
Depends on the size of the land mass you live on. Tongue

Solid contribution: brevity being the soul of wit and all!
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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Re: 200-Mile Electric Cars Are Overkill,...
Reply #14 - Nov 19th, 2014 at 8:56am
 
Well, you can debate the feasibility of your electric cars, & debate all the moral reasons that your Nanny says you must be compelled to own one, but for me good ole fossil fuel is & always will be my fuel of choice. I'm willing to pay whatever price, but know this full well, it will never be dictated to me as long as I live & breathe.

This is my ride of choice, when I'm here at 'home' 3 months +/- of the year.

Give me a Chevy any day!!


...


PS.....I run dual fuel
...

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