its the same with the cacophony about closing Guantanamo Bay.. all that chest beating seemed to stop since Obama promised to close it down in 2008....yet its still open...

GITMO ON OBAMA'S WATCH:

Well over a decade has passed since the first prisoner arrived in Guantánamo Bay, making it the longest-standing war prison in U.S. history. Almost 800 men have passed through Guantánamo’s cells. Today, 155 men remain. Fashioned as an “island outside the law” where terrorism suspects could be detained without process and interrogated without restraint, Guantánamo has been a catastrophic failure on every front. It is long past time for this shameful episode in American history to be brought to a close.



but where are all those protesters done?

cods wrote on Jul 27^th, 2014 at 5:37pm:

Interesting this one as it epitomises the bizarre relationship the US has with war and punishment since WW2.

Kennedy's Vietnam 'police action' became Johnson's war which, in its turn, became Nixon's war until Ford ended it, for which he is not (nor was) exactly eulogised.

Carter, who thought his fellow Americans wanted peace with the world, gave it to them, then suffered a soul-destroying backlash through which he had to endure the harshest contempt of many critics and former friends (who refused to speak to him).

Reagan was credited with ending the Soviet Union (which, in fact by the 80's, despite whoever would have been in the Whitehouse at the time, was destined for collapse).

Bush the first, despite his success with Gulf war 1, was criticised for 'not going all the way to Baghdad'.

Clinton's presidency, of course, was held hostage to that other American obsession, sexual intrigue.

Bush the second, who invaded Iraq based on lies and created 'Guantanamo', then 'Afghanistan' has not suffered nearly as much contempt in the US as he deserves. Certainly not nearly as much contempt as the 'peacenik' Carter faced with the Iranian hostage crisis.

And now it Obama's turn to be criticised for Guantanamo - it's now his prison - with not a single country or ally (including Australia), willing to accept the remaining prisoners.

We are yet to see how Republicans are going to refashion ISIS as an 'Obama failure'... But you can be sure they will try it.

The US is the only nation that muses publicly about bombing countries (a la Iran and Syria and - possibly - soon to be Russia) and many of its federal and state legislators are heavily criticising Obama for not joining in on this open musing.

So the question is, what should Obama do with Guantanamo and how should he do it?

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 7:08am:

Way more cynical was the initial betrayal of the long-suffering Kurds. Only after world outrage at pathetic scenes of their escape through the snow covered hills of northern Iraq, from vengeful Iraqi forces, was the US shamed into establishing no-fly zones. To this day, despite Iraqi Kurdistan's progress and commitment to establishing a modern democratic state, the US (and most or the west) mostly offer only lip service to Kurdish efforts towards independence or greater guarantees of protection. So much for America's rhetorical apotheosis of democracy.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 7:08am:

More to the point is that, whatever they may not have been prior to Guantanamo, they sure are more likely to be now... Injustice inflicted nearly always breeds vengeance.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 7:08am:

Bearing in mind that it was Bush's deal with al Maliki that ended US presence in Iraq... It was the Bush administration that left the corrupt Maliki government to deal with the Sunnis in Iraq as it saw fit... To persecute them with Shi'ite militia backed by his Iranian allies.

Datalife wrote on Jul 27^th, 2014 at 4:23pm:


http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/07/ten_reasons_i_am_no_longer_a_leftist.html

And here's a working link.

Dnarever wrote on Jul 27^th, 2014 at 7:42pm:




you read it though dont you?.. a bit like the Independent from wiseone you never complained about.. even when they claimed everyone else did it bar THOMO..he was so innocent..

and here you are twisting and turning..

at least that leftie got it right...

hows your good mates gillard and krudd these days.???... see they didnt last in politics did they?....

how long do you give shortarse..

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 8:34am:

Yes, well... My point referred to those Kurds who were trying to live in Iraqi Kurdistan, not become Assyrian Christians and migrate to Australia.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 8:34am:

Given the abysmal record of US and British intelligence, I'd bet those remaining at Guantanamo did nothing worthy of being arrested for. After all, the US was happy to have them repatriated or allow them to emigrate to any country that would have them (including Australia). None obliged and not so much because they were considered guilty but because of what Guantanamo had/.has probably turned them into.  Its interesting that Blair requested all British citizens be repatriated to Britain... A request that the Americans were happy to oblige.

American motivation here was largely fueled by blind revenge. They really didn't care who suffered, so long as they were foreign.

Stories were legion, during the early years after 9/11, of Sikhs being attacked in the US.

The American Empire is not heeding the cautionary tale of ancient Greece... From enlightenment (nascent democracy), to oligarchy, to dictatorship, to destruction... The US, it appears, will tread a similar path... With 'justice for all' its first casualty.

Wow! Wake a Norven monkey...

Bluuddy Awwwful init!

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 2:43pm:




I would hazard a guess and say more real terrorists were in there than any innocent bystanders.... you know people pulled off buses..

I find it hard to believe that after all these years those that are truly innocent havent come up with the evidence...and by doing so would take the US to the highest court in the land.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 4:44pm:


Gibberish.

Democracy came of age when the most uneducated and least important people in society had a vote equal to that of the most educated aristocrat ... and that, dear helian, was a concept first brought to reality by the British.

It's one of the reasons why some of the wogs here are so obsessively vindictive against the British for putting their own little ethnic nationhoods into the shade.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 8:06pm:

That would have been as a result of American democracy.

The 'British' had the class system (until its virtual destruction in the mid 20th century) which prevented true democracy.

I had to smile about Gore Vidal's characterisation of Roosevelt's contempt for Churchill, as Winston thought he had a friend in Franklin.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 9:02pm:

So the question is, what should Obama do with Guantanamo and how should he do it?

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2014 at 1:24am:

Don't worry... Don't wait to read it... Just make up 10 reasons why you're not a 'leftist' in 15 seconds... I'd bet it would be as coherent as reading others' cuts and pastes.

What the US considers left would be in Australia considered far right, so no point using the US Republican experience to define the Australian right or characterise the Australian left.

The terms are largely redundant in 21st century western politics... A better term I've read coined is the 'extreme centre'...

Maybe someone could drum up 10 reasons why they're not a moderate centrist, or a small 'c' centrist.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 28^th, 2014 at 8:06pm:



didnt the Magna Carta have something to do with it?  1215 and all that

cods wrote on Jul 29^th, 2014 at 7:31am:


It's interesting that the Brit-haters have no problem with Germany, Russia, China, Italy, Japan ... and the rest ... who were responsible for hideous genocides and barbarities in recent times. Not a bad word against them. They'll argue in support of these countries.

But Britain and America?

Whoooaaa!

"Evil Empires!"

"Satanic people!"

These haters are people struggling with a deep inferiority complex for which they can find no cure ... only temporary relief through being abusive and insulting to the Brits.



The Tall Poppies Syndrome is alive and well in certain quarters.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 29^th, 2014 at 7:59am:



I am surprised you bother trying to argue with them....none of us were around ion the days of yore...so at the very best its all a guess....all I hope is we improve rather than go backwards...

some wouldnt want that to happen thats why they keep harping on and on endlessly about the Brits.. and its all negative never positive....

all I can say is I hope if they ever need help they never call on the Brits for it..or the yanks for that matter who cop it no matter what they do.

nothing like being a couch critic.

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 29^th, 2014 at 8:52am:


Took a while for you to bite "you norven monkey" but it gives me a chance to reminisce on the closest friends of my family... A Newcastle / Geordie family to whom my siblings and I will be forever grateful for their time and to Geordie land for blessing us with them. Where our parents were strict, this family was as homely as something out of a schmaltzy British soap opera - old worldly, loving and uber family centric. We still keep in contact with them.

But one thing about the northerners... Don't mention the khakis or the darkies... Something we didn't realise infected even our Geordie second family until we were much older (we being white n'all).

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 29^th, 2014 at 8:52am:

And this from a working class norven monkey!

Reminds me of a line in a Simon Armitage (Yorkshireman) poem "You're Beautiful"... 'I'm ugly because once, at a dinner party, I defended the aristocracy and wasn't even drunk'.....

You haven't been drinking, have you, Herbert?

cods wrote on Jul 29^th, 2014 at 8:48am:


I think it was Whitlam (I could be wrong) who, without any referendum, and at the stroke of a pen, and imperiously of his own accord, removed Australians from coming under the honorific of being 'British Subjects'.

And then the Australian media whipped up a storm of anti-British bile when in response to this gratuitous initiative, the Brits ~ quite correctly ~ made Australian visitors to the UK queue up at the 'Aliens' customs counter instead of the 'British Subjects' walk-through.

 

Dnarever wrote on Jul 29^th, 2014 at 10:09am:




shortarse,.. pants down bill the dill...call him what you like.. hes a skunk.. a real stinkerroo...even been called a rapist...and we all know hes an adulterer dont we. .. calling him a skunk is being unkind to real skunks...

maybe just stick with bill the dill...or what about BRUTUS.....or.. maybe JUDAS. ...didnt he betray Jesus???

and we all know who bill betrayed dont we??? yuk yuk ...no matter what you say you cannot top that one..... would you trust bill the dill to feed your dog... I doubt it.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 29^th, 2014 at 1:58pm:


Are you kidding?

The very fact that Britain and Australia live in a free democracy means that the very least of us can aspire to the dizzying heights of the aristocratic elite through hard work, self-sacrifice, study, etc.

Look at all the knighted 'Sirs' and 'Dames' they now have in the UK who came from very humble beginnings ... many of them still only semi-literate and poorly educated.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 29^th, 2014 at 3:00pm:


Aristocracy, helian.

A little 'nouveau' I'll admit, but 'Sir' or 'Dame' sits well with the Chardonnay set down at the tennis club on the North Shore.