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Ten reasons why I am no longer a leftist (Read 1955 times)
cods
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Re: Ten reasons why I am no longer a leftist
Reply #15 - Jul 28th, 2014 at 6:10pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 2:43pm:
Given the abysmal record of US and British intelligence, I'd bet those remaining at Guantanamo did nothing worthy of being arrested for.


Wrong again ...

Five extremist thugs at Gitmo were just recently exchanged for one American deserter in Afghanistan.

This caused outrage because these 5 were well documented as very bad dudes indeed.




I would hazard a guess and say more real terrorists were in there than any innocent bystanders.... you know people pulled off buses..

I find it hard to believe that after all these years those that are truly innocent havent come up with the evidence...and by doing so would take the US to the highest court in the land.
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Soren
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Re: Ten reasons why I am no longer a leftist
Reply #16 - Jul 28th, 2014 at 7:47pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 6:35am:
cods wrote on Jul 27th, 2014 at 5:37pm:
its the same with the cacophony about closing Guantanamo Bay.. all that chest beating seemed to stop since Obama promised to close it down in 2008....yet its still open...

GITMO ON OBAMA'S WATCH:

Well over a decade has passed since the first prisoner arrived in Guantánamo Bay, making it the longest-standing war prison in U.S. history. Almost 800 men have passed through Guantánamo’s cells. Today, 155 men remain. Fashioned as an “island outside the law” where terrorism suspects could be detained without process and interrogated without restraint, Guantánamo has been a catastrophic failure on every front. It is long past time for this shameful episode in American history to be brought to a close.



but where are all those protesters done? Cool Cool


Interesting this one as it epitomises the bizarre relationship the US has with war and punishment since WW2.

Kennedy's Vietnam 'police action' became Johnson's war which, in its turn, became Nixon's war until Ford ended it, for which he is not (nor was) exactly eulogised.

Carter, who thought his fellow Americans wanted peace with the world, gave it to them, then suffered a soul-destroying backlash through which he had to endure the harshest contempt of many critics and former friends (who refused to speak to him).

Reagan was credited with ending the Soviet Union (which, in fact by the 80's, despite whoever would have been in the Whitehouse at the time, was destined for collapse).

Bush the first, despite his success with Gulf war 1, was criticised for 'not going all the way to Baghdad'.

Clinton's presidency, of course, was held hostage to that other American obsession, sexual intrigue.

Bush the second, who invaded Iraq based on lies and created 'Guantanamo', then 'Afghanistan' has not suffered nearly as much contempt in the US as he deserves. Certainly not nearly as much contempt as the 'peacenik' Carter faced with the Iranian hostage crisis.

And now it Obama's turn to be criticised for Guantanamo - it's now his prison - with not a single country or ally (including Australia), willing to accept the remaining prisoners.

We are yet to see how Republicans are going to refashion ISIS as an 'Obama failure'... But you can be sure they will try it.

The US is the only nation that muses publicly about bombing countries (a la Iran and Syria and - possibly - soon to be Russia) and many of its federal and state legislators are heavily criticising Obama for not joining in on this open musing.

So the question is, what should Obama do with Guantanamo and how should he do it?



Thank you for the nice summary of why America can do no right.

It goes in too hard - problem.
Goes in carefully - problem.
Goes in from the air only - problem.
Doesn't go in at all - problem.
Engages - problem
Keeps out - problem.
Gives money - problem.
Gives weapons - problem.
Doesn't give anything - problem.
Like the Jews, America is the source of all problems for the Numpty Nation.

America exists - that's the unforgiven problem for most people who have never a good word for the single most significant force for good in the world.



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Lord Herbert
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Re: Ten reasons why I am no longer a leftist
Reply #17 - Jul 28th, 2014 at 8:06pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 4:44pm:
Interesting, though... Who had the vote when the 'British' were inventing democracy? The unlanded?, Women?


Gibberish.

Democracy came of age when the most uneducated and least important people in society had a vote equal to that of the most educated aristocrat ... and that, dear helian, was a concept first brought to reality by the British.

It's one of the reasons why some of the wogs here are so obsessively vindictive against the British for putting their own little ethnic nationhoods into the shade.

Smiley


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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Ten reasons why I am no longer a leftist
Reply #18 - Jul 28th, 2014 at 9:02pm
 
Soren wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 7:47pm:

Thank you for the nice summary of why America can do no right.

It goes in too hard - problem.
Goes in carefully - problem.
Goes in from the air only - problem.
Doesn't go in at all - problem.
Engages - problem
Keeps out - problem.
Gives money - problem.
Gives weapons - problem.
Doesn't give anything - problem.


True. And its America's own who ask and answer those questions in like kind...

The fate of empire.
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Ten reasons why I am no longer a leftist
Reply #19 - Jul 28th, 2014 at 9:17pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 8:06pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 4:44pm:
Interesting, though... Who had the vote when the 'British' were inventing democracy? The unlanded?, Women?


Gibberish.

Democracy came of age when the most uneducated and least important people in society had a vote equal to that of the most educated aristocrat ... and that, dear helian, was a concept first brought to reality by the British.


That would have been as a result of American democracy.

The 'British' had the class system (until its virtual destruction in the mid 20th century) which prevented true democracy.

I had to smile about Gore Vidal's characterisation of Roosevelt's contempt for Churchill, as Winston thought he had a friend in Franklin.
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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Dnarever
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Re: Ten reasons why I am no longer a leftist
Reply #20 - Jul 28th, 2014 at 9:31pm
 
cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 10:31am:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 27th, 2014 at 7:42pm:
Good work Data - it is difficult to find such rubbish, much of it is nonsense and probably more applicable to the conservatives anyway.




you read it though dont you?.. a bit like the Independent from wiseone you never complained about.. even when they claimed everyone else did it bar THOMO..he was so innocent..

and here you are twisting and turning..

at least that leftie got it right...

hows your good mates gillard and krudd these days.???... see they didnt last in politics did they?.... ;
how long do you give shortarse.. )



how long do you give shortarse

I think Abbott will last to the end of this term.

a bit like the Independent from wiseone you never complained about.. even when they claimed everyone else did it bar THOMO..he was so innocent..

Don't read the independent much - must have missed that story.
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Ten reasons why I am no longer a leftist
Reply #21 - Jul 28th, 2014 at 10:22pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 9:02pm:
Soren wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 7:47pm:

Thank you for the nice summary of why America can do no right.

It goes in too hard - problem.
Goes in carefully - problem.
Goes in from the air only - problem.
Doesn't go in at all - problem.
Engages - problem
Keeps out - problem.
Gives money - problem.
Gives weapons - problem.
Doesn't give anything - problem.


True. And its America's own who ask and answer those questions in like kind...

The fate of empire.

So the question is, what should Obama do with Guantanamo and how should he do it?
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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Kat
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Re: Ten reasons why I am no longer a leftist
Reply #22 - Jul 29th, 2014 at 1:24am
 
Well, what a waste of bandwidth and ten minutes of my time that was...
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...
 
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Ten reasons why I am no longer a leftist
Reply #23 - Jul 29th, 2014 at 7:15am
 
Kat wrote on Jul 29th, 2014 at 1:24am:
Well, what a waste of bandwidth and ten minutes of my time that was...

Don't worry... Don't wait to read it... Just make up 10 reasons why you're not a 'leftist' in 15 seconds... I'd bet it would be as coherent as reading others' cuts and pastes.

What the US considers left would be in Australia considered far right, so no point using the US Republican experience to define the Australian right or characterise the Australian left.

The terms are largely redundant in 21st century western politics... A better term I've read coined is the 'extreme centre'...

Maybe someone could drum up 10 reasons why they're not a moderate centrist, or a small 'c' centrist.
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cods
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Re: Ten reasons why I am no longer a leftist
Reply #24 - Jul 29th, 2014 at 7:29am
 
Dnarever wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 9:31pm:
cods wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 10:31am:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 27th, 2014 at 7:42pm:
Good work Data - it is difficult to find such rubbish, much of it is nonsense and probably more applicable to the conservatives anyway.




you read it though dont you?.. a bit like the Independent from wiseone you never complained about.. even when they claimed everyone else did it bar THOMO..he was so innocent..

and here you are twisting and turning..

at least that leftie got it right...

hows your good mates gillard and krudd these days.???... see they didnt last in politics did they?.... ;
how long do you give shortarse.. )



how long do you give shortarse

I think Abbott will last to the end of this term.

a bit like the Independent from wiseone you never complained about.. even when they claimed everyone else did it bar THOMO..he was so innocent..

Don't read the independent much - must have missed that story.





ha.ha.. missing the question as per usual you sure your not greenswhine on another day???...lol..

nup shortarse wont be there at the next election.just as Mr 76% wasnt..

oops now who stabbed him in the back... now who was it????????.....do you remember dna?


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cods
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Re: Ten reasons why I am no longer a leftist
Reply #25 - Jul 29th, 2014 at 7:31am
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 8:06pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 4:44pm:
Interesting, though... Who had the vote when the 'British' were inventing democracy? The unlanded?, Women?


Gibberish.

Democracy came of age when the most uneducated and least important people in society had a vote equal to that of the most educated aristocrat ... and that, dear helian, was a concept first brought to reality by the British.

It's one of the reasons why some of the wogs here are so obsessively vindictive against the British for putting their own little ethnic nationhoods into the shade.

Smiley





didnt the Magna Carta have something to do with it?  1215 and all that
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Ten reasons why I am no longer a leftist
Reply #26 - Jul 29th, 2014 at 7:53am
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 9:17pm:
That would have been as a result of American democracy.

The 'British' had the class system (until its virtual destruction in the mid 20th century) which prevented true democracy.

I had to smile about Gore Vidal's characterisation of Roosevelt's contempt for Churchill, as Winston thought he had a friend in Franklin.


Read Nixon's Inaugural Speech some time. He eulogised Britain's cultural heritage and various institutions as having contributed greatly to the American success story that has made it a beacon of freedom and First World power in a world stiff with dictatorships, pandemic poverty, military juntas, gulags, inequality, child labour, female chatteldom, oppression and barbarism.

Where do you think Australia's success originates from if not from its British heritage?
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Ten reasons why I am no longer a leftist
Reply #27 - Jul 29th, 2014 at 7:59am
 
cods wrote on Jul 29th, 2014 at 7:31am:
didnt the Magna Carta have something to do with it?  1215 and all that


It's interesting that the Brit-haters have no problem with Germany, Russia, China, Italy, Japan ... and the rest ... who were responsible for hideous genocides and barbarities in recent times. Not a bad word against them. They'll argue in support of these countries.

But Britain and America?

Whoooaaa!

"Evil Empires!"

"Satanic people!"

These haters are people struggling with a deep inferiority complex for which they can find no cure ... only temporary relief through being abusive and insulting to the Brits.

Smiley

The Tall Poppies Syndrome is alive and well in certain quarters.
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Ten reasons why I am no longer a leftist
Reply #28 - Jul 29th, 2014 at 8:08am
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 29th, 2014 at 7:53am:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jul 28th, 2014 at 9:17pm:
That would have been as a result of American democracy.

The 'British' had the class system (until its virtual destruction in the mid 20th century) which prevented true democracy.

I had to smile about Gore Vidal's characterisation of Roosevelt's contempt for Churchill, as Winston thought he had a friend in Franklin.


Read Nixon's Inaugural Speech some time. He eulogised Britain's cultural heritage and various institutions as having contributed greatly to the American success story that has made it a beacon of freedom and First World power in a world stiff with dictatorships, pandemic poverty, military juntas, gulags, inequality, child labour, female chatteldom, oppression and barbarism.

Where do you think Australia's success originates from if not from its British heritage?

Nixon! For gawd's sake you norven monkey!

He must've been distracted by Watergate... Or maybe trying to outdo Churchill's coining of the term 'Iron Curtain' with his own 'Red Sandwich'!

Or reminiscing about his description of the Great Wall of China to Mao Zedong "You know Mr Chairman... This really is a great wall".

But I would bet Nixon had genuinely kinder thoughts towards Britain maybe than nearly all the 18th and 19th century US Presidents and 20th C ones like Roosevelt, Eisenhower and Kennedy.

The British Empire and its aristocratic class system was (or should have been) to all Americans, the antithesis of all the Declaration of Independence and Constitution stood for (even if Thomas Jefferson prophesied that ultimately the US would be as venal a power as any in Europe).
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cods
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Re: Ten reasons why I am no longer a leftist
Reply #29 - Jul 29th, 2014 at 8:48am
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 29th, 2014 at 7:59am:
cods wrote on Jul 29th, 2014 at 7:31am:
didnt the Magna Carta have something to do with it?  1215 and all that


It's interesting that the Brit-haters have no problem with Germany, Russia, China, Italy, Japan ... and the rest ... who were responsible for hideous genocides and barbarities in recent times. Not a bad word against them. They'll argue in support of these countries.

But Britain and America?

Whoooaaa!

"Evil Empires!"

"Satanic people!"

These haters are people struggling with a deep inferiority complex for which they can find no cure ... only temporary relief through being abusive and insulting to the Brits.

Smiley

The Tall Poppies Syndrome is alive and well in certain quarters.



I am surprised you bother trying to argue with them....none of us were around ion the days of yore...so at the very best its all a guess....all I hope is we improve rather than go backwards...

some wouldnt want that to happen thats why they keep harping on and on endlessly about the Brits.. and its all negative never positive....

all I can say is I hope if they ever need help they never call on the Brits for it..or the yanks for that matter who cop it no matter what they do.

nothing like being a couch critic.
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