Australian Politics Forum - Why does the government reward bludgers?

ImSpartacus2

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Re: Why does the government reward bludgers?
Reply #45 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 5:55am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 4:40am:

Aussie wrote on Mar 13^th, 2014 at 8:41pm:

TheGreenLight wrote on Mar 13^th, 2014 at 7:44pm:

I turn 65 soon, and i am not entitled to receive a pension. I have saved all my life, and apparently too much, I can live off of the money and Super that I have saved over the years. I know people who have blown all of their money, or at least a lot of it, and they get $20,000 a year from the taxpayer, and I get bigger all. Both sides do this, Labor and the Coalition. Why is this? Where is the incentive to save, where is the incentive to be prudent and wise with your money? Why do we reward those who waste their money? bugger I have completely lost it with all sides of politics in this country.

All good points, but I'm not so sure about people wasting their money etc.

You, like me, are one of the Baby Boomers. There are zillions of us and we are causing a transitional nightmare. Few of us have meaningful 'super,' because it was not compulsory when we were making any worthwhile money. It was only later in our working life that the 'super' came along, so we are behind the eight ball......with Super.

Only one other alternative, which is the Aged Pension.

There are not "zillions" of baby boomers. In fact the whole "baby boomer" thing is propaganda. There are just lots more ppl and the governments squandered our money and sold off the things that made money (electricity, post office, telecom etc).

SOB

Well said SOB

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TheGreenLight

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Re: Why does the government reward bludgers?
Reply #46 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 6:49am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 4:41am:

TheGreenLight wrote on Mar 13^th, 2014 at 9:01pm:

[ftp][/ftp]Aussie wrote on Mar 13^th, 2014 at 8:41pm:

TheGreenLight wrote on Mar 13^th, 2014 at 7:44pm:

I turn 65 soon, and i am not entitled to receive a pension. I have saved all my life, and apparently too much, I can live off of the money and Super that I have saved over the years. I know people who have blown all of their money, or at least a lot of it, and they get $20,000 a year from the taxpayer, and I get bigger all. Both sides do this, Labor and the Coalition. Why is this? Where is the incentive to save, where is the incentive to be prudent and wise with your money? Why do we reward those who waste their money? bugger I have completely lost it with all sides of politics in this country.

All good points, but I'm not so sure about people wasting their money etc.

You, like me, are one of the Baby Boomers. There are zillions of us and we are causing a transitional nightmare. Few of us have meaningful 'super,' because it was not compulsory when we were making any worthwhile money. It was only later in our working life that the 'super' came along, so we are behind the eight ball......with Super.

Only one other alternative, which is the Aged Pension.

I understand where you're coming from, but let me give you an example. A bfriend of mine and i earned roughly the same amount of money all our lives. He had to have the best of everything. Every time we'd go out for lunch or dinner he'd order one of the most expensive meals on the menu. He wasted his money like it was going out of his fashion, and hardly saved a dime. I scrimped and saved all my life, when I was married and when I was single. Now that he's blown his, he is entitled to taxpayer money at the rate of $20,000 a year. I am entitled to stuff all.

He enjoyed life while you did not? Seriously - you want to live on 20k a year? He hasnt got the best of everything now.

SOB

Why can't anyone but john_g grasp the point of this thread?

It's not that I need the money, it's the whole principle of the situation.

If he squandered his money, why should the taxpayer fork out $20,000 a year, and give the prudent people like me, not a cent?

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Why does the government reward bludgers?
Reply #47 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 7:07am

TheGreenLight wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 6:49am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 4:41am:

TheGreenLight wrote on Mar 13^th, 2014 at 9:01pm:

[ftp][/ftp]Aussie wrote on Mar 13^th, 2014 at 8:41pm:

TheGreenLight wrote on Mar 13^th, 2014 at 7:44pm:

I turn 65 soon, and i am not entitled to receive a pension. I have saved all my life, and apparently too much, I can live off of the money and Super that I have saved over the years. I know people who have blown all of their money, or at least a lot of it, and they get $20,000 a year from the taxpayer, and I get bigger all. Both sides do this, Labor and the Coalition. Why is this? Where is the incentive to save, where is the incentive to be prudent and wise with your money? Why do we reward those who waste their money? bugger I have completely lost it with all sides of politics in this country.

All good points, but I'm not so sure about people wasting their money etc.

You, like me, are one of the Baby Boomers. There are zillions of us and we are causing a transitional nightmare. Few of us have meaningful 'super,' because it was not compulsory when we were making any worthwhile money. It was only later in our working life that the 'super' came along, so we are behind the eight ball......with Super.

Only one other alternative, which is the Aged Pension.

I understand where you're coming from, but let me give you an example. A bfriend of mine and i earned roughly the same amount of money all our lives. He had to have the best of everything. Every time we'd go out for lunch or dinner he'd order one of the most expensive meals on the menu. He wasted his money like it was going out of his fashion, and hardly saved a dime. I scrimped and saved all my life, when I was married and when I was single. Now that he's blown his, he is entitled to taxpayer money at the rate of $20,000 a year. I am entitled to stuff all.

He enjoyed life while you did not? Seriously - you want to live on 20k a year? He hasnt got the best of everything now.

SOB

Why can't anyone but john_g grasp the point of this thread?

It's not that I need the money, it's the whole principle of the situation.

If he squandered his money, why should the taxpayer fork out $20,000 a year, and give the prudent people like me, not a cent?

Because "prudent" ppl like you dont need it. Thing is - you must have a heck of a lot to not get anything.

SOB

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BlOoDy RiPpEr Gold Member Offline aussie-patriot.com Posts: 2475 Sydney Gender:	Re: Why does the government reward bludgers? Reply #48 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 7:44am Its a bit like my parents, they both worked all their lives 7 days a week both in their 70's, things like family holidays never happened because they had to work all year round. now and cant receive a pension. My father still works and my mum just retired for the third time due to health reasons.
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miketrees

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Re: Why does the government reward bludgers?
Reply #49 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 8:15am

There's no such thing as a 'Lefty' or a 'Righty'. In reality, we all know what's fair and what isn't. Subscribing to 'Lefty' or 'Righty' thinking, is an exercise in deliberate self delusion. It's a deferral of conscience, in order to take the path of least resistance. Or a deliberate obfuscation, in the service of vested interests. It's a completely disingenuous charade.

Thanks Whinny the Poo you demonstrated my point brilliantly.

Everybody thinks they know what fair is.

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Winston Smith

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Re: Why does the government reward bludgers?
Reply #50 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 10:18am

miketrees wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 8:15am:

There's no such thing as a 'Lefty' or a 'Righty'. In reality, we all know what's fair and what isn't. Subscribing to 'Lefty' or 'Righty' thinking, is an exercise in deliberate self delusion. It's a deferral of conscience, in order to take the path of least resistance. Or a deliberate obfuscation, in the service of vested interests. It's a completely disingenuous charade.

Thanks Whinny the Poo you demonstrated my point brilliantly.

Everybody thinks they know what fair is.

What you're alluding to, isn't about fairness.

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mozzaok

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Re: Why does the government reward bludgers?
Reply #51 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 1:27pm

Setanta wrote on Mar 13^th, 2014 at 8:47pm:

TheGreenLight wrote on Mar 13^th, 2014 at 7:44pm:

I turn 65 soon, and i am not entitled to receive a pension. I have saved all my life, and apparently too much, I can live off of the money and Super that I have saved over the years. I know people who have blown all of their money, or at least a lot of it, and they get $20,000 a year from the taxpayer, and I get bigger all. Both sides do this, Labor and the Coalition. Why is this? Where is the incentive to save, where is the incentive to be prudent and wise with your money? Why do we reward those who waste their money? bugger I have completely lost it with all sides of politics in this country.

What of those that couldn't put any aside because they were never paid enough to? Yep, they blew all their money because they had no choice, saving or eating, tough choice. If you could save enough that you don't get the pension, thank your lucky stars you were not on minimum wage for your working life. How about you donate all your savings and property to charity, then you can try and live on 20k a year paying rent.

My heart bleeds for you. Cry

LMAO Very, very well said Setanta.

You have to love folks who most likely pilloried any and all getting any type of government benefit, now blowing their stack, because they have too much money to get a full pension themselves.
Solid Gold.

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mantra

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Re: Why does the government reward bludgers?
Reply #52 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 2:09pm

There are plenty of self funded retirees who are on a full pension as long as the interest they earn from their investments doesn't exceed $80,000 a year. This is very generous considering the state of the economy.

If you exceed an income of $80,000 - the pension is reduced accordingly. If you have no need for the pension - why would you want it? Your taxes over the years would probably have paid for your children's education and medical care for your whole family. If any of your immediate family were unemployed or sick - then your taxes would also have contributed to their welfare benefits.

Australia has become a very greedy place. We want everything for nothing.

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Neferti

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Re: Why does the government reward bludgers?
Reply #53 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 3:10pm

mantra wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 2:09pm:

There are plenty of self funded retirees who are on a full pension as long as the interest they earn from their investments doesn't exceed $80,000 a year. This is very generous considering the state of the economy.

If you exceed an income of $80,000 - the pension is reduced accordingly. If you have no need for the pension - why would you want it? Your taxes over the years would probably have paid for your children's education and medical care for your whole family. If any of your immediate family were unemployed or sick - then your taxes would also have contributed to their welfare benefits.

Australia has become a very greedy place. We want everything for nothing.

You have absolutely no idea, do you? You are just regurgitating nonsense, as usual. Here, take a look for yourself.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/themes/older-australians

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Kat

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Re: Why does the government reward bludgers?
Reply #54 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 3:34pm

mantra wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 2:09pm:

There are plenty of self funded retirees who are on a full pension as long as the interest they earn from their investments doesn't exceed $80,000 a year. This is very generous considering the state of the economy.

If you exceed an income of $80,000 - the pension is reduced accordingly. If you have no need for the pension - why would you want it? Your taxes over the years would probably have paid for your children's education and medical care for your whole family. If any of your immediate family were unemployed or sick - then your taxes would also have contributed to their welfare benefits.

Australia has become a very greedy place. We want everything for nothing.

And if it's at the expense of someone who's genuinely needy, then so much the better.

Especially if it's single parents and/or the unemployed.

Angry

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mantra

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Re: Why does the government reward bludgers?
Reply #55 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 3:56pm

Neferti wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 3:10pm:

mantra wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 2:09pm:

There are plenty of self funded retirees who are on a full pension as long as the interest they earn from their investments doesn't exceed $80,000 a year. This is very generous considering the state of the economy.

If you exceed an income of $80,000 - the pension is reduced accordingly. If you have no need for the pension - why would you want it? Your taxes over the years would probably have paid for your children's education and medical care for your whole family. If any of your immediate family were unemployed or sick - then your taxes would also have contributed to their welfare benefits.

Australia has become a very greedy place. We want everything for nothing.

You have absolutely no idea, do you? You are just regurgitating nonsense, as usual. Here, take a look for yourself.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/themes/older-australians

Yet another personal attack!

If you think I'm incorrect - and self funded retirees can't earn $80,000 pa and still collect a pension - please provide the evidence?

Your link proves nothing.

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Ex Dame Pansi Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 24168	Re: Why does the government reward bludgers? Reply #56 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 4:09pm
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woody2014

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Re: Why does the government reward bludgers?
Reply #57 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 4:22pm

mantra wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 3:56pm:

Neferti wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 3:10pm:

mantra wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 2:09pm:

There are plenty of self funded retirees who are on a full pension as long as the interest they earn from their investments doesn't exceed $80,000 a year. This is very generous considering the state of the economy.

If you exceed an income of $80,000 - the pension is reduced accordingly. If you have no need for the pension - why would you want it? Your taxes over the years would probably have paid for your children's education and medical care for your whole family. If any of your immediate family were unemployed or sick - then your taxes would also have contributed to their welfare benefits.

Australia has become a very greedy place. We want everything for nothing.

You have absolutely no idea, do you? You are just regurgitating nonsense, as usual. Here, take a look for yourself.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/themes/older-australians

Yet another personal attack!

If you think I'm incorrect - and self funded retirees can't earn $80,000 pa and still collect a pension - please provide the evidence?

Your link proves nothing.

The amount of part Age Pension you receive is not only based on the assets you have. It is also determined by your income. For each dollar of income you receive over the income limit, which is currently $268 for a couple combined, your pension will be reduced by 50 cents. In terms of the asset limit, your Age Pension is reduced by $1.50 for every $1000 over a certain threshold, until you reach the disqualifying amount. You will need to speak with a Centrelink Financial Information Services officer to ascertain what your payment rate will be.

As self-funded retirees, if you do not qualify for an Age Pension, you may be entitled to a Commonwealth Seniors Health Card (CSHC), which will give you access to concessions on pharmaceuticals, medical services, transport to name but a few. Also, as holders of a CSHC, you may also be eligible for a Seniors Supplement to assist with household bills.

maybe this will help

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mantra

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Re: Why does the government reward bludgers?
Reply #58 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 4:23pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 4:09pm:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1/s403x403/1504534_64415...

This is true, but it's not the philosophy of most conservative governments. They're doctrine is survival of the fittest and elimination of the weak. There's no chance of Australia remaining civilised while a neo-conservative government is in power.

Civilised....bring (a place or people) to a stage of social development considered to be more advanced.

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mantra

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Re: Why does the government reward bludgers?
Reply #59 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 4:27pm

woody2014 wrote on Mar 14^th, 2014 at 4:22pm:

The amount of part Age Pension you receive is not only based on the assets you have. It is also determined by your income. For each dollar of income you receive over the income limit, which is currently $268 for a couple combined, your pension will be reduced by 50 cents. In terms of the asset limit, your Age Pension is reduced by $1.50 for every $1000 over a certain threshold, until you reach the disqualifying amount. You will need to speak with a Centrelink Financial Information Services officer to ascertain what your payment rate will be.

As self-funded retirees, if you do not qualify for an Age Pension, you may be entitled to a Commonwealth Seniors Health Card (CSHC), which will give you access to concessions on pharmaceuticals, medical services, transport to name but a few. Also, as holders of a CSHC, you may also be eligible for a Seniors Supplement to assist with household bills.

That's a little ambiguous, although thanks for the info. It doesn't say specifically what the "certain threshold" is. The figure I provided has appeared fairly regularly in the media based on a couple with an income from investments. I don't think the family home is included in the threshold.

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