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Congratulations Denmark. No more halal. (Read 31782 times)
Mattyfisk
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Re: Congratulations Denmark. No more halal.
Reply #105 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 12:20am
 
Yes, friends, One Nation stickers are another suitable form of evidence on the Islam board. FD has been Googling Halal food for days, and has finally come up with penultimate proof.

Great research, FD. Alternatively, you could have posted statistics on food in general, or something on Kosher or Satvic diets, or a photo of toddlers holding up a sign saying BEHEAD ALL THOSE WHO INSULT THE PROPHET.

Still, a bumper sticker will do nicely - especially when it’s from a good source like One Nation.
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Yadda
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Re: Congratulations Denmark. No more halal.
Reply #106 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 12:35am
 
Stratos wrote on Feb 25th, 2014 at 10:31pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 25th, 2014 at 10:11pm:
These stickers are being sold by one nation candidates.


Lol, One Nation and their calm impartial views on Muslims.





Nice one Stratos !



OK, Stephanie Banister, is a good, 'in your face', example of what is wrong with politics in the West.

Politics in the West - is often being 'driven' and 'informed', by the ignorant and by the uninformed [a failing of character, which also seems to infect much of our mainstream media today !].

And unfortunately, people like Stephanie Banister seek to present themselves as 'trend setters', when in fact they are trend and 'fashion' followers, who do not feel that they have enough time [or the intellectual capacity ?] to properly inform themselves, about important political/social issues ?

In short they are fakers and deceivers, imo.

What was it that i said - about what is wrong with politics in the West ?.......

Oh yes, in conclusion, with a good media directer/manager, i have little doubt that Stephanie Banister could pass for a good/typical Australian pollie.






Yadda wrote on Jan 14th, 2013 at 10:02am:

Western pollies, and moslems, have so much in common, imo.




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« Last Edit: Feb 26th, 2014 at 6:40am by Yadda »  

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Congratulations Denmark. No more halal.
Reply #107 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 7:31am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 25th, 2014 at 10:11pm:
These stickers are being sold by one nation candidates. I think you can still buy them online. No government is forcing anyone to buy them (or giving businesses the "option" of paying tens of thousands of dollars for them or be barred from the market).


Actually, being "barred" from a market is not anti-capitalist - it is consistent with the free-market principle that a trader can trade with whomever they damn well please - with whatever conditions they please.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Congratulations Denmark. No more halal.
Reply #108 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 4:19pm
 
Yadda wrote on Feb 26th, 2014 at 12:35am:
Politics in the West - is often being 'driven' and 'informed', by the ignorant and by the uninformed [a failing of character, which also seems to infect much of our mainstream media today !].

And unfortunately, people like Stephanie Banister seek to present themselves as 'trend setters',


Ah.
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Soren
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Re: Congratulations Denmark. No more halal.
Reply #109 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 10:26pm
 
To recap:





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polite_gandalf
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Re: Congratulations Denmark. No more halal.
Reply #110 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 7:44am
 
you seriously expect me to waste 5 minutes of my life listening to that git?

I'll give you the 2 second summary: halal sux because islam sux.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Congratulations Denmark. No more halal.
Reply #111 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 1:06pm
 
I bet that idiot from One Nation has a better grasp of market capitalism than Gandalf. How is it possible for someone to live in Australia and not have the faintest idea what capitalism means?

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 26th, 2014 at 7:31am:
freediver wrote on Feb 25th, 2014 at 10:11pm:
These stickers are being sold by one nation candidates. I think you can still buy them online. No government is forcing anyone to buy them (or giving businesses the "option" of paying tens of thousands of dollars for them or be barred from the market).


Actually, being "barred" from a market is not anti-capitalist - it is consistent with the free-market principle that a trader can trade with whomever they damn well please - with whatever conditions they please.


Again you demonstrate a complete inability to grasp the most basic principles of free market capitalism. The "traders" cannot trade with whomever they damn well please, under whatever conditions they please, because foreign governments prevent it, and set up regional monopolies within Australia to extort as much money as possible from those attempting to trade. Even Muslims are complaining about this, because they cannot offer lower prices for the same certification services. It has to be a monopoly, and it has to charge prices so high it is on the verge of forcing people out of the market.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Congratulations Denmark. No more halal.
Reply #112 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 3:15pm
 
FD's certainly got a bee in his bonnet about this one.

freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 1:06pm:
The "traders" cannot trade with whomever they damn well please, under whatever conditions they please, because foreign governments prevent it


No, because in this case "foreign governments" (if the MUI can even be considered government - which I'm not even sure about) is simply just another trader. Its so much simpler than you're making it out to be - you can even forget about the the meat product, since all we're talking about here is the selling and buying of halal certificates - which consists of:

1. Indonesian MUI selling halal certificates
2. Australian abattoir's buying halal certificates

Thats all this is about, and its completely irrelevant if one of the traders is partly or wholly a "foreign government".

And yes, the MUI can sell their product (the certificates) on whatever terms it damn well pleases. If its an unreasonable price, the buyer can simply choose not to buy it (which they did) - and the MUI is the loser. The buyers will simply turn to another seller of halal certificate (obviously MUI controlled suppliers are not the only ones - Australia sells frozen meat to many other muslim countries besides Indonesia), or, if the MUI wants to get back into the Australian halal-certificate-selling market, they will have to offer a more competitive price. Thats how capitalism works FD.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Soren
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Re: Congratulations Denmark. No more halal.
Reply #113 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 9:06pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 7:44am:
you seriously expect me to waste 5 minutes of my life listening to that git?

I'll give you the 2 second summary: halal sux because islam sux.




Islam does suck. And you will dodge the reasons why it sux because facing them would mean the collapse of Islam.


As a political ideology, Islam is completely fvkd and should be actively resisted by every honest and right thinking person.

In political terms it is the worst kind of bloody and backward tyranny imaginable.

Islam has never made the separation between politics and spirituality - and it will never do it because it has painted itself into a corner about it. And so it is a religion under the guise of political ideology of the most  activist kind - or a fervent if not virulent political ideology disguised as a religion.

As politics and spirituality have never been separated in Islam and never will be, you cannot dodge this essential and defining characteristic of your religio-political creed.





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polite_gandalf
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Re: Congratulations Denmark. No more halal.
Reply #114 - Feb 28th, 2014 at 9:34am
 
Quote:
freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 7:34pm:
It is astonishing that someone could get this so obviously wrong and be so unaware of how clueless they are:

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 3:15pm:
No, because in this case "foreign governments" (if the MUI can even be considered government - which I'm not even sure about) is simply just another trader.


No they aren't. They are a barrier to trade. If you consider the government to be a trader in this context you are a socialist. At the very least, you are about as from from the principles of free market capitalism as you can get.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 3:15pm:
Its so much simpler than you're making it out to be - you can even forget about the the meat product, since all we're talking about here is the selling and buying of halal certificates - which consists of:


Certificates are not the product of interest. They are part of the barrier to trade.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 3:15pm:
Thats all this is about, and its completely irrelevant if one of the traders is partly or wholly a "foreign government".


No it isn't, because the whole point of free market capitalism is that the government does not dictate who is allowed to participate in the market by issueing certificates and saying who is allowed to sell them and for how much. Again, you have no concept at all of what free market capitalism is. You see goods and money changing hands without people being shot and assume that means it is capititalism. It isn't. You have no clue.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 3:15pm:
And yes, the MUI can sell their product (the certificates) on whatever terms it damn well pleases. If its an unreasonable price, the buyer can simply choose not to buy it (which they did) - and the MUI is the loser.


The buyer is also the loser. The potential customers are also losers. Everyone loses.

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 3:15pm:
Thats how capitalism works FD.


It is the opposite of capitalism.



FD's Spam thread removed as per FD's own advise to "start discussions and get people thinking, not to spam the board with your own agenda." Also deleted two follow-up mock threads.

Meanwhile...

Quote:
Certificates are not the product of interest. They are part of the barrier to trade.


Certificates are the only product of interest in this case, and until you understand that the trading in certificates is the only relevant point here, you will continue to be confused and continue with this bizarre game of histrionics.

- QLD abattoirs want to buy halal certificates - for what purpose is completely irrelevant
- MUI sells said abattoirs the certificates it wants.
- MUI gets greedy and charges exorbitant fees for these certificates
- abattoirs respond by boycotting MUI and starts looking for better deal

Its really that simple. Confusing the issue with irrelevant details like monopolies and foreign governments is nothing but red herrings to the central point I was making.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Soren
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Re: Congratulations Denmark. No more halal.
Reply #115 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 1:42pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 7:44am:
you seriously expect me to waste 5 minutes of my life listening to that git?

I'll give you the 2 second summary: halal sux because islam sux.




This is as good a summary of the relationship between Islam and the West: we do not have any shared ground.

The very basics of our positions are mutually exclusive; it is not possible to stand on Western princples and concede that Islam has any valid arguments. Equally, the Islamic mindset is so completely alien and hostile to Western principles that there is no possibility for a conviction Muslim to concede any Western principle as being shared and which therefore could be the start of some working-out of anything shared and mutually recognised.
Islam's defenders will make tactical concessions to the various freedoms the West stands for only for the strategic purpose of eventually abolishing them. The Egyptian example, and soon the Afghan one, shows how1 democracy is used to introduce the end of democracy and the beginning of sharia.
Western Muslims operate in the same manner - tactical evocation of their freedoms to agitate for sharia which is designed to end everyone's freedoms.


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polite_gandalf
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Re: Congratulations Denmark. No more halal.
Reply #116 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 5:47pm
 
Soren wrote on Mar 1st, 2014 at 1:42pm:
The Egyptian example, and soon the Afghan one, shows how1 democracy is used to introduce the end of democracy and the beginning of sharia.


Not sure what you're on about there - Egyptian democracy was dismantled by what we would term the "anti-islamists" - the facebook trendoids in Tahrir square demanding the overthrow of the islamists, and the despotic military gladly obliging. And in Afghanistan, I don't recall the taliban ever cynically embracing democracy to end it - they have been ruthlessly open about their desire to smash it to pieces.

Soren wrote on Mar 1st, 2014 at 1:42pm:
Western Muslims operate in the same manner - tactical evocation of their freedoms to agitate for sharia which is designed to end everyone's freedoms.


There is a significant body of muslims who are anti-sharia. Look at the surveys of French muslims (for example) - that would be what FD would describe as "finding out what muslims actually think"
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Congratulations Denmark. No more halal.
Reply #117 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 6:25pm
 
Finding out what Muslims actually think?

Oh, G, you are a one...
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Congratulations Denmark. No more halal.
Reply #118 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 6:37pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Mar 1st, 2014 at 6:25pm:
Finding out what Muslims actually think?

Oh, G, you are a one...


Radical concept I know. FD used to think it was overrated, and for years he stuck doggedly to the idea that the only muslim opinions we needed to know about were Abu and Falah's. That is until he stumbled across a survey that had a majority of Malaysian muslims supporting death for apostasy. Then suddenly he was all "oh isn't this 'finding out what muslims actually think' thing wonderful!" Of course muslim opinions supporting liberal/secular things will be discarded, and we will be promptly told to defer back to Abu and Falah.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Congratulations Denmark. No more halal.
Reply #119 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 6:44pm
 
So what does the survey say Gandalf?
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