Australian Politics Forum - Gun laws in Australia

gizmo_2655

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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #285 - Aug 18^th, 2014 at 5:41pm

gone wrote on Aug 18^th, 2014 at 4:58pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2014 at 3:17pm:

That would be because they all do National Service, and are part of the Swiss armed forces.

Not all. The women don't do compulsory military service, and men only do it until about age of 40 (roughly, as far as I remember), and many get away with medical problems(real or simulated Wink

) anyway. But anyone sane and peaceful can get a gun licence in no time.

Would you like to bet on that??

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #286 - Aug 18^th, 2014 at 5:43pm

gone wrote on Aug 18^th, 2014 at 4:58pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2014 at 3:17pm:

That would be because they all do National Service, and are part of the Swiss armed forces.

Not all. The women don't do compulsory military service, and men only do it until about age of 40 (roughly, as far as I remember), and many get away with medical problems(real or simulated Wink

) anyway. But anyone sane and peaceful can get a gun licence in no time.

Ok, but the women do voluntary military service..which works out the same.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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freediver

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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #287 - Aug 18^th, 2014 at 6:41pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 17^th, 2014 at 10:55pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2014 at 6:19pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 17^th, 2014 at 2:32pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2014 at 12:56pm:

Of course it's not wrong. It is a question. Why have laws if they are not 100% effective? Why tie your shoelaces if they are just going to come undone again? I remember as a child pointing out to my parents that there is no point cleaning my room because it will just get messy again. I probably would have appreciated NRA propaganda at that age. Now I just feel stupid for bothering to explain to people why it is wrong.

The point though, is that bringing in gun laws doesn't really affect criminals that much, because when you get arrested for being in possession (for example) of 30 kilos of methamphetamine, having (or not having) a 9mm pistol in your pocket isn't going to greatly affect whether you go to jail.

Only a tiny minority of criminals are gong to be in possession of 30kg of meth. Most will be lucky to have $50 or enough drugs to get high. I'd trust the guy with 30kg of meth far more, because you don't get in that situation by waving guns in peoples faces, and the only people he is likely to kill is other criminals. The street junkie on the other hand is unpredictable with a gun. In Australia, they do not normally have them, because our gun laws work, despite the NRA rhetoric about them making no difference.

The idea that criminals are going to own guns regardless is so pervasive because the NRA works so hard to lower the IQ of the gun debate at every opportunity. The are living proof that no matter stupid the claim, if you make it simple enough and repeat it often enough, some people are going to believe it.

You do realise that the NRA has almost nothing to do with the gun law debate here in Australia. And to constantly bring it (the NRA) into most of your response is a really pathetic attempt to conjure up a 'bogeyman' argument.

I talk about the NRA because I was responding to other people bringing it up or mindlessly parroting NRA propaganda. Check the history of this discussion. It is not me who keeps bringing up the NRA and my biggest complaint has been other people lowering the IQ of the debate by quoting the NRA.

Quote:

Oh and by the way, for some criminals, a firearm is like nail gun to a builder. Something that helps them do their job more effectively, so while a lot of criminals do, initially do those hold ups you are so happy to point out with knives, syringes or clubs, once they have stolen enough money there is a fairly good chance they will buy a firearm so they can steal more money, with greater confidence.

Either that or get high. If they were into the whole upwardly mobile business they would not be holding up convenience stores.

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I identify as Mail because all I do is SendIT!

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gone

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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #288 - Aug 19^th, 2014 at 12:02am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2014 at 5:43pm:

gone wrote on Aug 18^th, 2014 at 4:58pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2014 at 3:17pm:

That would be because they all do National Service, and are part of the Swiss armed forces.

Not all. The women don't do compulsory military service, and men only do it until about age of 40 (roughly, as far as I remember), and many get away with medical problems(real or simulated Wink

) anyway. But anyone sane and peaceful can get a gun licence in no time.

Ok, but the women do voluntary military service..which works out the same.

A VERY small number, yes. Roughly 1000 women are in the Swiss army Wink

All the other 4 million Swiss women aren't.

You were trying to make a point that gun ownership in Switzerland was somehow linked to military service, but it isn't.

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Jasin

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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #289 - Aug 19^th, 2014 at 12:51am

Switzerland is really a premier MEDICAL nation
and the world's best at that.

Only a USA perception of Switzerland would see it as
a Military/Political thing and focus/promote it as that.

I can only wonder then if it is the 'Retarded Swiss' who carry Guns - WTF for? Huh

Everyone knows that the olive-skinned Reptilian 'green' race of Draconians that come from South America should only have guns. Wink

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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MumboJumbo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1474 Gender:	Re: Gun laws in Australia Reply #290 - Aug 19^th, 2014 at 6:19pm "Commentary: I think this meatbag has hostile intentions, Master! This is going to be fun!" -HK-47
Back to top	See Profile For Update wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2015 at 2:58pm: Why the bugger did I get stuck on a planet chalked full of imbeciles? IP Logged

gizmo_2655

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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #291 - Aug 20^th, 2014 at 10:01am

gone wrote on Aug 19^th, 2014 at 12:02am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2014 at 5:43pm:

gone wrote on Aug 18^th, 2014 at 4:58pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2014 at 3:17pm:

That would be because they all do National Service, and are part of the Swiss armed forces.

Not all. The women don't do compulsory military service, and men only do it until about age of 40 (roughly, as far as I remember), and many get away with medical problems(real or simulated Wink

) anyway. But anyone sane and peaceful can get a gun licence in no time.

Ok, but the women do voluntary military service..which works out the same.

A VERY small number, yes. Roughly 1000 women are in the Swiss army Wink

All the other 4 million Swiss women aren't.

You were trying to make a point that gun ownership in Switzerland was somehow linked to military service, but it isn't.

"Gun politics in Switzerland are unique in Europe. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations, however it is not allowed to keep the ammunition; Switzerland thus has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. In recent times a minority of political opposition has expressed a desire for tighter gun regulations. A referendum in February 2011 rejected stricter gun control."

Really??

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 46466 Gender:	Re: Gun laws in Australia Reply #292 - Aug 20^th, 2014 at 10:47pm Oh - so its a PRETEND Gun law in Switzerland for they don't really have the 'ammunition' that would otherwise 'arm' the Gun itself. I hear they use Water-Pistols in Namibia. Put the accessibility of Ammo in those Swiss guns and watch the blood flow.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: Gun laws in Australia Reply #293 - Aug 22^nd, 2014 at 3:24pm Question for those that want laxer gun control laws in Australia. Would that be for ALL Australian citizens and residents?
Back to top	"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013. "we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions." Freediver, 2007. IP Logged

BigOl64

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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #294 - Aug 22^nd, 2014 at 4:40pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2014 at 10:01am:

[

"Gun politics in Switzerland are unique in Europe. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations, however it is not allowed to keep the ammunition; Switzerland thus has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. In recent times a minority of political opposition has expressed a desire for tighter gun regulations. A referendum in February 2011 rejected stricter gun control."

Really??

While it is true that their 5.56 mm NATO ammunition is locked away from their service issue Semi Auto, their 223 civilian ammo for their personal semi auto remains at home.

Funny how they don't shoot up the place on a regular basis even though they have access to lots of guns and tonnes of ammo (75 mil rounds per year), they must be special, becuase that is the normal thing to do according to some on this board.

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« Last Edit: Aug 22^nd, 2014 at 4:56pm by BigOl64 »

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BigOl64

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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #295 - Aug 22^nd, 2014 at 4:44pm

Jasin wrote on Aug 20^th, 2014 at 10:47pm:

Oh - so its a PRETEND Gun law in Switzerland
for they don't really have the 'ammunition' that would otherwise 'arm' the Gun itself.

I hear they use Water-Pistols in Namibia. Grin

Put the accessibility of Ammo in those Swiss guns and watch the blood flow.

You are pretty friggen clueless aren't you?

It doesn't take that much effort to make yourself less stupid, ya know

Grin

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Life_goes_on

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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #296 - Aug 22^nd, 2014 at 5:12pm

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2014 at 4:40pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2014 at 10:01am:

[

"Gun politics in Switzerland are unique in Europe. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations, however it is not allowed to keep the ammunition; Switzerland thus has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. In recent times a minority of political opposition has expressed a desire for tighter gun regulations. A referendum in February 2011 rejected stricter gun control."

Really??

While it is true that their 5.56 mm NATO ammunition is locked away from their service issue Semi Auto, their 223 civilian ammo for their personal semi auto remains at home.

Funny how they don't shoot up the place on a regular basis even though they have access to lots of guns and tonnes of ammo (75 mil rounds per year), they must be special, becuase that is the normal thing to do according to some on this board.

Switzerland still manages to have a much higher firearm homicide rate than here - high enough to result more homicides in real figures than here - not just the per 100,000 rate - despite having only a bit more than one third of our population.

Granted they do have a much higher firearm ownership rate than here - but that's slowly changing. You're no longer able to automatically keep your service weapon and they no longer allow you to keep ammunition at home for your service weapon (if you're currently serving).

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"You're just one lucky motherf-cker" - Someone, 5th February 2013

Num num num num.

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: Gun laws in Australia Reply #297 - Aug 22^nd, 2014 at 5:15pm \|dev\|null wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2014 at 3:24pm: Question for those that want laxer gun control laws in Australia. Would that be for ALL Australian citizens and residents? Those that can pass the criminal and mental health check, yes.
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ian

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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #298 - Aug 22^nd, 2014 at 5:55pm

BigOl64 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2014 at 4:40pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2014 at 10:01am:

[

"Gun politics in Switzerland are unique in Europe. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations, however it is not allowed to keep the ammunition; Switzerland thus has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. In recent times a minority of political opposition has expressed a desire for tighter gun regulations. A referendum in February 2011 rejected stricter gun control."

Really??

While it is true that their 5.56 mm NATO ammunition is locked away from their service issue Semi Auto, their 223 civilian ammo for their personal semi auto remains at home.

Funny how they don't shoot up the place on a regular basis even though they have access to lots of guns and tonnes of ammo (75 mil rounds per year), they must be special, becuase that is the normal thing to do according to some on this board.

their firearm death rate is 3 times Australias. Now go put your dunce cap on and sit in the corner.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Gun laws in Australia Reply #299 - Aug 22^nd, 2014 at 5:56pm gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2014 at 5:15pm: \|dev\|null wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2014 at 3:24pm: Question for those that want laxer gun control laws in Australia. Would that be for ALL Australian citizens and residents? Those that can pass the criminal and mental health check, yes. what sort of checks do you propose be used?
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