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Gun laws in Australia (Read 205845 times)
Pho Huc
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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #2130 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 10:40am
 
Panther wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 5:26pm:
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 11:12am:
Panther wrote on Nov 16th, 2015 at 9:01am:


In light of the Terror Attacks in Paris, & the likelihood of similar terrorist activity here (not if, but when) do you think it's high time that we start a political dialog concerning approval of firearms for law abiding citizens, citizens who wish to own & keep firearms for the sole purpose of personal protection  --  all predicated on that any potential approval would be dependent on passing a predetermined battery of screening tests, ensuring that those selected for approval have an extremely low likelihood, if any, of using these firearms for criminal activity?



Quote:
The police can't stop an intruder, mugger, or stalker from hurting you. They can pursue him only after he has hurt or killed you.
Protecting yourself from harm is your responsibility, and you are far less likely to be hurt in a neighborhood of gun-owners than in one of disarmed citizens — even if you don't own a gun yourself.



What say you?





Id rather see more effort put into programs designed to reduce the chance of terrorist incidents than  a knee jerk law change in response to a temporary change in social climate. As the US can attest, once people have their guns they can be quite unreasonable about relinquishing them, even if they have no further need of them. In 40-50 years it will be a new problem presenting society, and I would rather avoid the legacies a proliferation of firearms ensures.   


Relinquish them???  Why relinquish a viable option, maybe the only option, for defending yourself & your family......



So, you don't believe in bringing a gun to a gunfight, reason & logic coupled with the rule of law will stop them in their tracks.....

You'd rather the cops.....only 1/2 hr away.....to enforce the law & take the guns away from those balaclava wearing desperadoes banging on your back door.....Tell your kids not to worry......Hey, offer em tea & biscuits.....ignore the tall one eying up your 12 year old daughter like a rare steak........sure, tell em a few jokes till the good guys with guns show up, take away the bad guys guns, & save the day......  Shocked Roll Eyes

 




There are many hypothetical situations that allow guns to be used in a defensive way.
Please try to remember that hypothetical and realistic are not the same thing. 

Hypothetically when I get attacked by a horde of zombies I want a Saiga 12 and many clips.
Realistically, i'm more likely to shoot one of my friends with it showing off when drunk, than kill a zombie.   

This is called separating fantasy from reality, and something many gun owners struggle with. 

More kids are killed by the guns their parents buy to protect them than are saved by them.

Rationally the safest thing for your kids is to keep guns the hell away.
People have an infinite capacity for self delusion though.

In your mind you possessing a gun makes it less probable that your daughter will be raped (and a hats off to the fine marketing departments of NRA and Co for that notion).

People go to extreme lengths to protect their family from strangers but most violent crimes against children are perpetrated by their own families. Possessing guns does little to prevent this. 

If easy availability of guns prevented or reduced crime the US would have significantly lower levels of violent crime compared with similar countries.   

It has elevated levels of violent crime compared to other developed countries.

Thus to state: Guns = Less crime would be patently absurd.

I don't like violent crime. Thus I support gun control.
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Panther
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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #2131 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 11:57am
 
Pho Huc wrote on Dec 7th, 2015 at 10:40am:
Panther wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 5:26pm:
Pho Huc wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 11:12am:
Panther wrote on Nov 16th, 2015 at 9:01am:

In light of the Terror Attacks in Paris, & the likelihood of similar terrorist activity here (not if, but when) do you think it's high time that we start a political dialog concerning approval of firearms for law abiding citizens, citizens who wish to own & keep firearms for the sole purpose of personal protection  --  all predicated on that any potential approval would be dependent on passing a predetermined battery of screening tests, ensuring that those selected for approval have an extremely low likelihood, if any, of using these firearms for criminal activity?


[quote]The police can't stop an intruder, mugger, or stalker from hurting you. They can pursue him only after he has hurt or killed you.
Protecting yourself from harm is your responsibility, and you are far less likely to be hurt in a neighborhood of gun-owners than in one of disarmed citizens — even if you don't own a gun yourself.



What say you?


Id rather see more effort put into programs designed to reduce the chance of terrorist incidents than  a knee jerk law change in response to a temporary change in social climate. As the US can attest, once people have their guns they can be quite unreasonable about relinquishing them, even if they have no further need of them. In 40-50 years it will be a new problem presenting society, and I would rather avoid the legacies a proliferation of firearms ensures.   


Relinquish them???  Why relinquish a viable option, maybe the only option, for defending yourself & your family......

So, you don't believe in bringing a gun to a gunfight, reason & logic coupled with the rule of law will stop them in their tracks.....

You'd rather the cops.....only 1/2 hr away.....to enforce the law & take the guns away from those balaclava wearing desperadoes banging on your back door.....Tell your kids not to worry......Hey, offer em tea & biscuits.....ignore the tall one eying up your 12 year old daughter like a rare steak........sure, tell em a few jokes till the good guys with guns show up, take away the bad guys guns, & save the day......  Shocked Roll Eyes

 




There are many hypothetical situations that allow guns to be used in a defensive way.
Please try to remember that hypothetical and realistic are not the same thing. 


The only fact is is that non-qualified personnel have problems understanding the benefits of defensive gun use by trained users.....the fact is they can't....are you trained in the use of firearms? If not, your not even qualified to make your above statement, much less use a firearm.


More kids are killed by the guns their parents buy to protect them than are saved by them.


Really,Please provide your bona fide source & statistical proof



Rationally the safest thing for your kids is to keep guns the hell away.
People have an infinite capacity for self delusion though.

In your mind you possessing a gun makes it less probable that your daughter will be raped (and a hats off to the fine marketing departments of NRA and Co for that notion).

People go to extreme lengths to protect their family from strangers but most violent crimes against children are perpetrated by their own families. Possessing guns does little to prevent this. 

That's idiotic. You wouldn't buy a motorcycle to hit a cricket ball, so why would you expect a gun to eliminate child abuse. (even though a teen well trained in the use of a firearm can make an abusive dad take his belt & back off, probably without firing a shot)
Bottom line, guns are not meant to, they are meant to be used correctly against external threats. Enforce established laws if you want to eradicate more child abuse.


If easy availability of guns prevented or reduced crime the US would have significantly lower levels of violent crime compared with similar countries. 

They have......violent crime has been on the decline in the USA for years, you seem to only read the front page tabloid headlines.....meant to sell media, rather than actual government statistics which will prove you wrong.

As far as comparing to "similar countries", there are none that are truly comparative (historically, politically, & culturally)

It has elevated levels of violent crime compared to other developed countries.
Wrong, See previous above.


Thus to state: Guns = Less crime would be patently absurd.

Statistically, you are absolutely incorrect.


I dont like violent crime. Thus I support gun control.

Show me a specific law on the books that will absolutely stop anyone from getting a firearm illegally (or anything for that matter), & go on a killing spree....
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« Last Edit: Dec 7th, 2015 at 12:37pm by Panther »  

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When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Panther
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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #2132 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 12:23pm
 
The above may or may not be completely relevant here in Australia, where the combination of history, politics, & culture is quite different than in the United States, making a realistic comparison virtually impossible/inaccurate at best..

In America more guns on the streets in the hands of qualified, law abiding citizens has proven to have lowered violent crime, but if the exact same recipe were applied here in Australia, it might not have the same desired affects.

Discussing 'similar', or quite 'different', laws affecting both Australia & America could be more thoroughly discussed in  the appropriate thread.
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« Last Edit: Dec 7th, 2015 at 12:31pm by Panther »  

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When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Pho Huc
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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #2133 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 6:03pm
 

There are many hypothetical situations that allow guns to be used in a defensive way.
Please try to remember that hypothetical and realistic are not the same thing. 


The only fact is is that non-qualified personnel have problems understanding the benefits of defensive gun use by trained users.....the fact is they can't....are you trained in the use of firearms? If not, your not even qualified to make your above statement, much less use a firearm.


A- By that logic, only drug users and dealers would be qualified to provide input into the structure of drug laws.

B- I have a class A/B longarms license and several longarms.
I just sold my 9mm Luger last year.

C-Guns a tool for amplifying personal power. "Do what i want or i will perforate your body."  Its not that complicated.


More kids are killed by the guns their parents buy to protect them than are saved by them.


Really,Please provide your bona fide source & statistical proof


Extrapolated from the fact the 61% of child murders are committed by their parents(google fillicide then take you pick). Since most children are murdered by their parents it seems obvious that guns owned by the parents are more likely used to kill rather than save their children.
Obviously this relates to the notoriously difficult to quantify category of non-homicidal defensive gun use so i am not going to argue thus point. 


Rationally the safest thing for your kids is to keep guns the hell away.
People have an infinite capacity for self delusion though.

In your mind you possessing a gun makes it less probable that your daughter will be raped (and a hats off to the fine marketing departments of NRA and Co for that notion).

People go to extreme lengths to protect their family from strangers but most violent crimes against children are perpetrated by their own families. Possessing guns does little to prevent this. 

That's idiotic. You wouldn't buy a motorcycle to hit a cricket ball, so why would you expect a gun to eliminate child abuse. (even though a teen well trained in the use of a firearm can make an abusive dad take his belt & back off, probably without firing a shot)
Bottom line, guns are not meant to, they are meant to be used correctly against external threats. Enforce established laws if you want to eradicate more child abuse.



I agree with you. Guns do not prevent child abuse or murder. The only reason I mentioned it was because it was salient to the point YOU made about defending your daughter from a would be rapist.
Most threats to children are from inside the family, giving the family guns does not remove the threat. As stated, your example, not mine.


If easy availability of guns prevented or reduced crime the US would have significantly lower levels of violent crime compared with similar countries. 

They have......violent crime has been on the decline in the USA for years, you seem to only read the front page tabloid headlines.....meant to sell media, rather than actual government statistics which will prove you wrong.

As far as comparing to "similar countries", there are none that are truly comparative (historically, politically, & culturally)


A- I am comparing the US to countries like AUS//NZ/CAN. They are   not identical, but they are close enough to draw comparisons. If you refuse to compare the US to those countries I would like to know why.   

B- I'm not comparing the US to its own historical violence rates, or commenting on such a relationship. I'm comparing it to countries with similar economic status, cultural make up, with widespread use of firearms. 


It has elevated levels of violent crime compared to other developed countries.
Wrong, See previous above.


Oh, please correct me by naming one developed country with higher murder rate than the US. I looked at the stats and I couldn't find one.


Thus to state: Guns = Less crime would be patently absurd.

Statistically, you are absolutely incorrect.


Please share these statistics that correlate an increase of gun ownership with a decrease in gun violence.


I dont like violent crime. Thus I support gun control.

Show me a specific law on the books that will absolutely stop anyone from getting a firearm illegally.



Erroneous logic. If a law prevents 99% of the population from committing an action, it is an effective law.  The fact that 1% of the population ignores it does not make the law pointless.
If you followed that logic their would be no laws.
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Panther
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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #2134 - Dec 10th, 2015 at 1:30pm
 
Pho Huc wrote on Dec 7th, 2015 at 6:03pm:
There are many hypothetical situations that allow guns to be used in a defensive way.
Please try to remember that hypothetical and realistic are not the same thing. 


The only fact is is that non-qualified personnel have problems understanding the benefits of defensive gun use by trained users.....the fact is they can't....are you trained in the use of firearms? If not, your not even qualified to make your above statement, much less use a firearm.


A- By that logic, only drug users and dealers would be qualified to provide input into the structure of drug laws.

B- I have a class A/B longarms license and several longarms.
I just sold my 9mm Luger last year.

C-Guns a tool for amplifying personal power. "Do what i want or i will perforate your body."  Its not that complicated.


More kids are killed by the guns their parents buy to protect them than are saved by them.


Really,Please provide your bona fide source & statistical proof


Extrapolated from the fact the 61% of child murders are committed by their parents(google fillicide then take you pick). Since most children are murdered by their parents it seems obvious that guns owned by the parents are more likely used to kill rather than save their children.
Obviously this relates to the notoriously difficult to quantify category of non-homicidal defensive gun use so i am not going to argue thus point. 


Rationally the safest thing for your kids is to keep guns the hell away.
People have an infinite capacity for self delusion though.

In your mind you possessing a gun makes it less probable that your daughter will be raped (and a hats off to the fine marketing departments of NRA and Co for that notion).

People go to extreme lengths to protect their family from strangers but most violent crimes against children are perpetrated by their own families. Possessing guns does little to prevent this. 

That's idiotic. You wouldn't buy a motorcycle to hit a cricket ball, so why would you expect a gun to eliminate child abuse. (even though a teen well trained in the use of a firearm can make an abusive dad take his belt & back off, probably without firing a shot)
Bottom line, guns are not meant to, they are meant to be used correctly against external threats. Enforce established laws if you want to eradicate more child abuse.



I agree with you. Guns do not prevent child abuse or murder. The only reason I mentioned it was because it was salient to the point YOU made about defending your daughter from a would be rapist.
Most threats to children are from inside the family, giving the family guns does not remove the threat. As stated, your example, not mine.


If easy availability of guns prevented or reduced crime the US would have significantly lower levels of violent crime compared with similar countries. 

They have......violent crime has been on the decline in the USA for years, you seem to only read the front page tabloid headlines.....meant to sell media, rather than actual government statistics which will prove you wrong.

As far as comparing to "similar countries", there are none that are truly comparative (historically, politically, & culturally)


A- I am comparing the US to countries like AUS//NZ/CAN. They are   not identical, but they are close enough to draw comparisons. If you refuse to compare the US to those countries I would like to know why.   

B- I'm not comparing the US to its own historical violence rates, or commenting on such a relationship. I'm comparing it to countries with similar economic status, cultural make up, with widespread use of firearms. 


It has elevated levels of violent crime compared to other developed countries.
Wrong, See previous above.


Oh, please correct me by naming one developed country with higher murder rate than the US. I looked at the stats and I couldn't find one.


Thus to state: Guns = Less crime would be patently absurd.

Statistically, you are absolutely incorrect.


Please share these statistics that correlate an increase of gun ownership with a decrease in gun violence.


I dont like violent crime. Thus I support gun control.

Show me a specific law on the books that will absolutely stop anyone from getting a firearm illegally.



Erroneous logic. If a law prevents 99% of the population from committing an action, it is an effective law.  The fact that 1% of the population ignores it does not make the law pointless.
If you followed that logic their would be no laws.


I disagree with your answers, but this is a forum for discussing AUSTRALIAN FIREARMS LAWS, not for comparisons/differences between USA & AUS law. That's why there is a thread specifically made for just that purpose:
GUN LAWS -- Australian Law vs. American Law
( LINK )
As I said earlier,that's where this discussion will take place.


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When government fears the People there is Freedom & Liberty!"

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Pho Huc
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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #2135 - Dec 11th, 2015 at 8:20pm
 
Sure thingo, Ill shunt it over there!

I look forward to your reply  Smiley

I have moved it to the Cheers NRA thread as their is no actual comparison between American and Australian laws in my post, only a comparison between crime rates and gun ownership levels.

But what the hey, ill argue wherever your happiest Wink
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Sir Eoin O Fada
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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #2136 - Feb 7th, 2016 at 4:58pm
 
Are Australian gun laws sometimes stupid?

Here's one. Ammunition cannot be stored in the same container as a firearm.

but if I fill the barrel of a 10 gauge shot gun with .22rf short rounds and lock it away as required, it poses no danger to anyone and cannot possibly fire the rounds.
So why can't .22 rf be stored with shotguns of whatever calibre?
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« Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2016 at 5:13pm by Sir Eoin O Fada »  

Self defence is a right.
 
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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #2137 - Feb 8th, 2016 at 1:16am
 
Criminals-make-mockery-of-australias-gun-ban/

Australia’s strict gun-control laws are predictably keeping firearms out of the hands of all groups except one: Criminals.

An analysis of official government statistics shows a spike in gun crime over the last decade, particularly in the states of New South Wales, South Australia, Tasmania and Victoria. A full ban on many firearms was established in 1996.

“The ban on semi-automatics created demand by criminals for other types of guns. The criminals’ gun of choice today is the semi-automatic pistol,” professor Philip Alpers of the University of Sydney told the New Daily Nov. 10.

Some of the newspaper’s findings include:

    Victoria reported 3645 firearms-related charges, a jump of 85 percent from 2005-2006.

    New South Wales reported 3463 firearms charges, up 83 percent on 2005-2006.

    South Australia’s 2014 gun possession and trafficking charges spiked 49 percent from 2010-2011.

    Tasmania’s 2014 unlawful gun possession charges were up 32 percent from 2005-2006.

“Taken together, the data suggests that despite our tough anti-gun laws, thousands of weapons are either being stolen or entering the country illegally. The fourfold rise in handgun-related charges in NSW in the past decade points to the existence of a big illegal market for concealable firearms that seems to have been underestimated in the past,” the newspaper reported.

A sheriff told the New Daily that gun crimes he tended to handle were linked to “mid-level drug crime.”

Gun control advocates in Australia have a new plan for tackling the problem: Ammunition regulations.

“There is very little regulation of ammunition purchase. In most jurisdictions you can purchase ammunition because you have a firearm license and there is no restriction on the type you can purchase – so if you own a rifle you can still purchase ammunition for a handgun,” said Samantha Lee of Gun Control Australia.

http://www.wnd.com/2015/11/criminals-make-mockery-of-australias-gun-ban/
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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #2138 - Feb 8th, 2016 at 5:27am
 
...

What remains of my handguns.

1911 .45 ACP
M&P 9mm
Smith 5906
Sold the Taurus back in October.

All were given to me by (ex) boyfriends (one obviously racist) and have been blessed by a Priest. I'm not kidding. Cannot remember the last time I fired them...summer 2010?

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Baronvonrort
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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #2139 - Feb 8th, 2016 at 3:23pm
 
Mortdooley wrote on Feb 8th, 2016 at 1:16am:
Criminals-make-mockery-of-australias-gun-ban/

Australia’s strict gun-control laws are predictably keeping firearms out of the hands of all groups except one: Criminals.

An analysis of official government statistics shows a spike in gun crime over the last decade, particularly in the states of New South Wales, South Australia, Tasmania and Victoria. A full ban on many firearms was established in 1996.

“The ban on semi-automatics created demand by criminals for other types of guns. The criminals’ gun of choice today is the semi-automatic pistol,” professor Philip Alpers of the University of Sydney told the New Daily Nov. 10.

Some of the newspaper’s findings include:

    Victoria reported 3645 firearms-related charges, a jump of 85 percent from 2005-2006.

    New South Wales reported 3463 firearms charges, up 83 percent on 2005-2006.

    South Australia’s 2014 gun possession and trafficking charges spiked 49 percent from 2010-2011.

    Tasmania’s 2014 unlawful gun possession charges were up 32 percent from 2005-2006.

“Taken together, the data suggests that despite our tough anti-gun laws, thousands of weapons are either being stolen or entering the country illegally. The fourfold rise in handgun-related charges in NSW in the past decade points to the existence of a big illegal market for concealable firearms that seems to have been underestimated in the past,” the newspaper reported.

A sheriff told the New Daily that gun crimes he tended to handle were linked to “mid-level drug crime.”

Gun control advocates in Australia have a new plan for tackling the problem: Ammunition regulations.

“There is very little regulation of ammunition purchase. In most jurisdictions you can purchase ammunition because you have a firearm license and there is no restriction on the type you can purchase – so if you own a rifle you can still purchase ammunition for a handgun,” said Samantha Lee of Gun Control Australia.

http://www.wnd.com/2015/11/criminals-make-mockery-of-australias-gun-ban/


Samantha Lee is telling more lies here, in my state you can only buy ammo for the guns you have and you need registration papers to prove you own guns of that calibre when buying ammo.

Last week a 59 year old farmer lost his firearms license because police found an old .303 round from his fathers WW1 .303, since this farmer had no .303 registered in his name he was guilty of a firearms offence that caused him to lose firearms license and have guns confiscated.

There is a video link here somewhere with the NSW Police minister Troy Grant saying greater than 97% of all gun crime is done by unlicensed people with unregistered firearms.
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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #2140 - Feb 8th, 2016 at 3:41pm
 

"Former prime minister John Howard cites the introduction of gun control legislation in the aftermath of the Port Arthur massacre as one of the defining achievements of his time in office."

Thank you, Mr Howard.

Conversations with Richard Fidler
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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #2141 - Feb 8th, 2016 at 3:43pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8th, 2016 at 3:41pm:
"Former prime minister John Howard cites the introduction of gun control legislation in the aftermath of the Port Arthur massacre as one of the defining achievements of his time in office."

Thank you, Mr Howard.

Conversations with Richard Fidler


We know you have irrational fears of guns peccahead, they call that hoplophobia
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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #2142 - Feb 8th, 2016 at 3:52pm
 

"John Howard on 20 years of gun control".

Well done, Johnny.

ABC
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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #2143 - Feb 8th, 2016 at 4:37pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8th, 2016 at 3:52pm:
"John Howard on 20 years of gun control".

Well done, Johnny.

ABC


Why is there only 1 AR15 in that huge pile of guns peccahead, where are all these semi auto rifles people claim were bought back, the black guns stand out yet very few if any in all the pics of the compensated confiscation.

Lots of .22lr rimfires and shotguns in all those piles of guns and very few if any semi autos can be seen.

Looks like people were paid for old shitters that nobody wanted.
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Re: Gun laws in Australia
Reply #2144 - Feb 11th, 2016 at 12:28pm
 
Australia's gun laws are great.  They keep guns out of the hands of people like the Baron!   Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy
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