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100 year commemoration of the start of WWI (Read 2659 times)
St George of the Garden
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100 year commemoration of the start of WWI
Jan 11th, 2014 at 7:27pm
 
Would be nice if the commemorations start off with some reflections on how it started and how it could have been averted. Every person involved at the time is now dead so can’t be hurt or embarrassed.

Kaiser Wilhelm II, against all of Bismarck’s advice, wanted a navy and colonies, just like England. This created strains with England.

After the assassination of Franz Ferdinand, Archduke of Austria, Willhelm gave the Austrians a blank cheque for action against Russia, France did the same with the Russian Czar. Recipe for disaster.

July 2014 was a month of intense diplomatic activity to avert war. It failed. Many opportunities to derail the gathering Apocalypse were not taken.

In 2018 are we just going to celebrate the Armistice? Or are we going to mention the attacks by the Australians under Australian command and using modern tactics (rolling artillery barrage, open formation etc) that rolled the German lines back kilometres?

If these attacks had been allowed to go on until they were inside the border of Germany even then WWII might have been averted—the “Dolchstoss” (stab in the back excuse by Ludendorff) would not have been possible.

In 2018 are we going to wave the flag or will we look at the failures of the Armistice negotiations and the dreadful Treaty of Versailles and how it made WWII certain?

There is a great book covering events in Germany 1918–33—the Weimar Republic. Describes a lot of things in detail. It is a Penguin and is called “The Kings Depart.”

I have a book “July 1914” written very shortly after that month (will have to find it and see who the author is) and have just ordered “The Guns of August” by Barbara W Tuchman.
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« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2014 at 10:10pm by St George of the Garden »  

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Re: 100 year commemoration of the start of WWI
Reply #1 - Jan 11th, 2014 at 8:00pm
 
You mean it wasn't Tony Abbott's fault?  Huh
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St George of the Garden
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Re: 100 year commemoration of the start of WWI
Reply #2 - Jan 11th, 2014 at 8:16pm
 
Just ordered “The Kings Depart” from Abebooks (http://www.abebooks.com/)

I have read it, 40 years or so ago, but it was a borrowed copy. Seems fitting to reread it this year.
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Re: 100 year commemoration of the start of WWI
Reply #3 - Jan 11th, 2014 at 8:19pm
 
'The guns of august' is a great read.  Good work.

Sadly, even the successful tactics and advances by the Australian Corps cost many casualties.   When they were rested in September, 1918, most battalions of 1000 were down to around 200.

My grandfather had a four digit number - early enlistment - and though unfit for full duties from 1917 continued as a company runner - a very dangerous job. He also worked with the 3rd Canadian Tunneling Company under Messines Ridge.  Great story I'm working on.

We should never forget - only one in four of the Originals came home, and I genuinely fear it will all happen again.

Read 'the Anzacs' by Patsy Adam Smith.
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Re: 100 year commemoration of the start of WWI
Reply #4 - Jan 11th, 2014 at 8:38pm
 
I will get that book a bit later—thanks for mentioning it.

Yeah, war is not a stroll in the woods but it may be that WWII could have been averted.

Maybe a war is coming—when you read some of the disgusting posts in the ASs threads it seems some have forgotten the Somme Mud, the Holocaust etc. More Aussie lives thrown away at Gallipoli on an ill-conceived, badly managed (i.e. typically British) campaign.
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Re: 100 year commemoration of the start of WWI
Reply #5 - Jan 11th, 2014 at 8:48pm
 
St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 11th, 2014 at 8:38pm:
I will get that book a bit later—thanks for mentioning it.

Yeah, war is not a stroll in the woods but it may be that WWII could have been averted.

Maybe a war is coming—when you read some of the disgusting posts in the ASs threads it seems some have forgotten the Somme Mud, the Holocaust etc. More Aussie lives thrown away at Gallipoli on an ill-conceived, badly managed (i.e. typically British) campaign.


Yes - some truly brilliant moves there in the teeth of machine guns and artillery - not to mention massed rifle fire.  Krythia with the Second Brigade - attack over open country over a mile approach... Jesus God...  Gallipoli - disaster after disaster and often without a good reason.

The Australians started to get it right once they got rid of the English heads... Monash had it down to a T.

Many condemn the brutality of the attacks on Iraq - better that than heavy casualties to your own.

WWII could have been averted - I think - with a proper handling of the peace, but once that 'stab in the back' took hold it meant that many Germans really believed that - maybe not the civilians of WWI but the army did.

Even Ludendorff called the day of greatest Australian advances 'The Black Day for The German Army' - the Aussies captured 25%+ of guns etc taken on that day over the whole front-wide attack.  They were headed for defeat in the field - not at home where people were starving.

Hitler jumped on the stab in the back to get the old army guys on board and give the movement some muscle - but as I've been warning here - the main things were that the Nazis took control of the workforce, industry, rents, and everything else - as a 'National Socialist' state - promoting prosperity but reducing rights etc,  and many people applauded it - including in Britain and the United States.

Same thing could happen here with the 'strong' government I've been raving about taking over and being applauded by many for doing so - and I don't mean Tony's Mob.

I'm just the messenger here - don't blame me or call me a Nazi.
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« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2014 at 8:55pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

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Re: 100 year commemoration of the start of WWI
Reply #6 - Jan 11th, 2014 at 9:20pm
 
Some good stuff here - one of my favourite books - Shirer's 'Rise and Fall Of the Third Reich".

http://www.maebrussell.com/Articles%20and%20Notes/Rise%20and%20Fall%20of%20the%2...
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St George of the Garden
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Re: 100 year commemoration of the start of WWI
Reply #7 - Jan 11th, 2014 at 9:20pm
 
I think Little Johnny and his greed is good and culture wars and his pork barreling—has created a class of petty bourgeoisie that could be easily talked into supporting some kind of totalitarianism, and support some US military adventurism again.

People don’t seem to retain lessons learned for long—the GFC would not have happened if the lessons of the Great Depression had been at the forefront of the regulators, the relevant people at the finance houses, regulators.

What I am worried about—a couple thousand of the worst culprits who should be in jail are not, are pulling down good bonuses while around the world thousands were unemployed because of these scammers. Unpunished bad behavior just means the next lot of scammers do something even worse.

This is a long way from WWI but shows what lessons not learned lead to.
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Re: 100 year commemoration of the start of WWI
Reply #8 - Jan 11th, 2014 at 9:29pm
 
I kind of see all these things as 'of a piece' - in a  'holistic' way so to speak - and see the very clear parallels between the actions that caused some of the great debacles in history and current events.

I may be totally wrong, and I do it more by 'feel' than by hard fact (despite my logo from John Adams).

What you say about the Great Depression is true - and many of the same factors are operating now that lead to it.

I'm currently working on a World War IV book - which war starts after The Greatest Depression in the 2030's - and follows the same sort of pattern as WWII did, ending up in the same situation.

WWII - BTW - saved the West from The Great Depression, and this event was one prime mover in Eisenhower's thesis on 'The Military-Industrial Complex' - without which US economics has been unable to function since the end of WWII.

War soaks up excess manpower and excess production - which is quite literally burnt off on the battlefield.  It is no great secret that every recession or slump in Western economies comes during a period of (relative) peace - relative because those specific nations are not at war.

It is no secret that war time is economic boom time in the West.
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Re: 100 year commemoration of the start of WWI
Reply #9 - Jan 11th, 2014 at 9:47pm
 
But it has to be a big war and not last too long—South Viet Nam drained the US Treasury.

The US Treasury has been drained again, $17Trn debt, due to two stupid wars plus neoconservatism which means tax income revenue is way too low—a couple of the highest tax brackets need to be raised. Same here, actually but not to the same extent, mercifully.
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Re: 100 year commemoration of the start of WWI
Reply #10 - Jan 11th, 2014 at 10:03pm
 
I have read Shirer’s book, started it just after I read Dante’s Inferno, bloke I was staying with said I went from the sublime to the ridiculous Grin

But while a good record it doesn’t get into causes like some of the other books mentioned tonight do.
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Re: 100 year commemoration of the start of WWI
Reply #11 - Jan 11th, 2014 at 10:11pm
 
Hmm - but remember these are 'wars on the cheap' and do not involve massive parts of the economy.  They are somewhat peripheral to the actual running of America these days and are not massively industry focuses - for the simple reason that the US has abandoned industry much as we have.

This concerns me - same as Australia - since it not only is, to a large extent, a weakness compensated for with technology - but it is very clear, to some people, exactly a weakness.

Problem with technology and such is that you still have to replace expended munitions, and you can't just buy them from China.

I was appalled that the NSW RSL Prez came out and rejected National Service as a means of instilling some discipline in young men these days - and said that the arms were simply not available to do so anyway.

I should shut up on that - the article was pulled very quickly.  It means that in a real emergency we have not the wherewithal to mount an adequate defence.

Someone said earlier that 'the fascists (Wee Johnnie) had taken our guns away - now we are defenceless'.

Yes - I wonder sometimes about the socio-fascist mind - either they are totally stupid or they are just totally cunning and have an agenda we don't have.

I was in New Zealand - second Fiji coup time - and asked a young NZ lass why a government would seek to remove firearms from its own people.  She answered - as an honest Kiwi lass - that a government would do so because it was afraid of those people and wanted to control them.

PS> I still like Shirer's work for the inside look at the running of the NS state.
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« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2014 at 10:17pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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St George of the Garden
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Re: 100 year commemoration of the start of WWI
Reply #12 - Jan 11th, 2014 at 10:23pm
 
Oh yeah, it is a great book for that, a great resource on the Third Reich.

And the West hollowing itself out is a real worry.
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Re: 100 year commemoration of the start of WWI
Reply #13 - Jan 11th, 2014 at 10:24pm
 
Swagman wrote on Jan 11th, 2014 at 8:00pm:
You mean it wasn't Tony Abbott's fault?  Huh


It must have been his grandfather's fault then.....
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Re: 100 year commemoration of the start of WWI
Reply #14 - Jan 11th, 2014 at 10:33pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 11th, 2014 at 9:20pm:
Some good stuff here - one of my favourite books - Shirer's 'Rise and Fall Of the Third Reich".

http://www.maebrussell.com/Articles%20and%20Notes/Rise%20and%20Fall%20of%20the%2...


Great book, I agree.

My copy is battered from over usage. An engrossing read.
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