Quote:You have to be muslim at the time the law is introduced to be affected by it. Again, it is a proposed law by muslims for muslims.
That does not even make sense. Are you suggested every person who is later born into Islam or converts escapes the law? Furthermore, in Malaysia the government decides who is a Muslim. People are not given a choice. There are people in rehabilitation camps in Malaysia right now because they attempted to apostasise.
Quote:And no, the Malaysian non-muslim community is not comprised mainly of former muslims who have apostasised - in case thats what you are thinking.
Going by by references to ethnic Indians and Chinese?
Quote:Islamophobia is saying that people who respond in a survey saying they believe in stoning for adulterers and death for apostasy are "frothing at the mouth" and "desperate" to get their "killing in the name of islam" laws through.
Half of those were your words Gandalf, not mine. For the most part, Muslims are patient and superficially reasonable in ther pursuit of their "right" to kill people.
Quote:It is islamophobia to assume that non-muslims living side by side with muslims must necessarily by default "oppose passionately" any attempts by the muslims to implement their own laws on themselves.
By "imposing their law", do you mean killing people?
Quote:Sorry, I've popped in a few times but may have missed this. Where was this mentioned?
I have quote Gandalf three times in this thread. Twice in the opening posts. The quotes include links to the original post.
Quote:Your right though, I have never asserted this.
Quote:Hillarious that you seem to have no clue as to how dishonest this is. "muslims killing people in the name of islam" could be jihadists running around blowing people up in shopping malls. It is not - yet why do you seem to go out of your way to make it sound like that? The truth is, we are talking about whether or not muslims have the right to introduce hudud apostasy and adultery laws on themselves, and only on themselves. What is actually being proposed is vastly different to your dishonest spin.
Quote:lol now you are just plain confused. They were specifically asked about hudud. There are no "banal" laws - they are all barbaric in your books - hudud specifically refers to death and amputations. And the point here is non-muslim Malaysians don't have to like the laws to appreciate that muslims have the right to enact those laws on themselves if they like.
Quote:3. "How many non-Muslims believe muslims have the right to introduce their own laws for executing apostates and stoning adulterers?"
number 3 is the most accurate question to ask in the context of what Malaysians think about the laws
Quote:note this is *NOT* saying that non-muslim Malaysians definitely do appreciate that muslims have this right. My argument has only ever been that FD has not a damn clue to claim that the vast majority of non-muslims "passionately oppose" muslims enacting hudud apostasy and adultery laws.
Gnadalf spent several pages in the other thread insisting that a survey that did not even mention death for apostasy or stoning adulterers to death proves what non-Muslim Malaysians think on the issue and that despite having the vote and the balance of power on the issue, are not the reason Malaysia does not have these laws. he backpedalled to that position, and is still backpedalling. Framing it in terms of the "right" of Muslims to kill people did not come from the survey. It was Gandalf's warped contribution to the debate.