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Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers. (Read 7718 times)
Lord Herbert
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Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Nov 30th, 2013 at 5:37am  
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I'm not entirely sure I understand this. Why do I have the feeling there's something a little suss about returned military personnel from an 11 year war in Afghanistan not being able to cope with fishing bodies out of the water with a 10-foot gaff-pole?

I think that lacks credibility.

And I think a couple of nasty habits picked up while on overseas service is all too often sanitised with glib clinical terminology such as 'Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder'.

'Heavy Drinking and Pot-Smoking Disorder' would be a little more accurate with a lot of them.

And these are indulged not so much to handle the fear, but to handle the excruciating boredom that war is mostly all about.
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Annie Anthrax
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #1 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 5:51am  
You seem to have a good grasp on how traumatic (or not) it is to be deployed to a war zone. Where did you serve?

Perhaps you just have an understanding of human behaviour and mental illness that exceeds that of the people who study or work in that field.

There is nothing "suss" about military personnel and PTSD. Attitudes like yours just make it harder for sufferers to access the help they need.
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BigOl64
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #2 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 6:33am  
Annie Anthrax wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 5:51am:
You seem to have a good grasp on how traumatic (or not) it is to be deployed to a war zone. Where did you serve?

Perhaps you just have an understanding of human behaviour and mental illness that exceeds that of the people who study or work in that field.

There is nothing "suss" about military personnel and PTSD. Attitudes like yours just make it harder for sufferers to access the help they need.



You would think that those who serve in the ADF would have a high tolerance for dam morons, but we are regularly surprised by the ignorant comments we see and hear from those who have never served a day in their lives

On behalf of all that have served this country I say to herbert, bugger you very much for your comment, I doubt you would ever say this to someone's face, you gutless coward.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #3 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 7:13am  
oops! Was it something I said?

Thank you for at least making an appearance here, Annie and Big-O.

Unfortunately, neither of you has cared to explore the matter of post-traumatic stress disorder with me to the degree that one is not able to function as a border control navy personnel.

I had been under the impression that military service in Afghanistan was entirely voluntary, and therefore only the hardy and the mentally tough would put their hand up for it.

I just find it extraordinary that we're being told that military personnel who have returned from a war zone are not able to lift bodies out of the water.

I understand perfectly that some personalities are very vulnerable to the fears and stresses of frontline combat, and that upon returning to Australia they may not wish to be in a position to have to deal with corpses.
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #4 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 7:26am  
Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 7:13am:
oops! Was it something I said?

Thank you for at least making an appearance here, Annie and Big-O.

Unfortunately, neither of you has cared to explore the matter of post-traumatic stress disorder with me to the degree that one is not able to function as a border control navy personnel.

I had been under the impression that military service in Afghanistan was entirely voluntary, and therefore only the hardy and the mentally tough would put their hand up for it.

I just find it extraordinary that we're being told that military personnel who have returned from a war zone are not able to lift bodies out of the water.

I understand perfectly that some personalities are very vulnerable to the fears and stresses of frontline combat, and that upon returning to Australia they may not wish to be in a position to have to deal with corpses.




I understand you don't know sh1t about what service personnel do or don't do, no need to labour your ignorance, you're starting to look mean and vicious
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #5 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 8:07am  
BigOl64 wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 7:26am:
I understand you don't know sh1t about what service personnel do or don't do, no need to labour your ignorance, you're starting to look mean and vicious.


So enlighten me. I've only been asking questions.

But let me tell you something first. I was brought up in an educational institute that didn't tolerate 'Sacred Cows' of any kind that couldn't be openly discussed and analysed for what truths could be gained from them.

EVERYTHING gets questioned. No Sacred Cows, and no tolerance for mystification on 'taboo' issues.

You Australians are brought up on a steady diet of bullshit about aborigines that you're not supposed to question. It's all a taboo, not to be spoken of.

Europeans have no such Sacred Cows.

So far I haven't managed to elicit a single word from you in answer to my first post, and that in itself tells me you might not have any answers besides insults and abuse.




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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #6 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 8:14am  
Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 8:07am:
BigOl64 wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 7:26am:
I understand you don't know sh1t about what service personnel do or don't do, no need to labour your ignorance, you're starting to look mean and vicious.


So enlighten me. I've only been asking questions.

But let me tell you something first. I was brought up in an educational institute that didn't tolerate 'Sacred Cows' of any kind that couldn't be openly discussed and analysed for what truths could be gained from them.

EVERYTHING gets questioned. No Sacred Cows, and no tolerance for mystification on 'taboo' issues.

You Australians are brought up on a steady diet of bullshit about aborigines that you're not supposed to question. It's all a taboo, not to be spoken of.

Europeans have no such Sacred Cows.

So far I haven't managed to elicit a single word from you in answer to my first post, and that in itself tells me you might not have any answers besides insults and abuse.





You get spoken to like that, because that how we Australians talk to rude little pricks who troll this board for sh1ts and giggles.


Friggen europens, so full of sh1t. Why don't you ask your european servicemen and women why they are nothing but a bunch of drug fvked soft c0cks unable to handle their time in the Ghan? Face to face of course, ya gutless wonder.


Ya rude little sh1t
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #7 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 9:16am  
BigOl64 wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 8:14am:
You get spoken to like that, because that how we Australians talk to rude little pricks who troll this board for sh1ts and giggles.

Friggen europens, so full of sh1t. Why don't you ask your european servicemen and women why they are nothing but a bunch of drug fvked soft c0cks unable to handle their time in the Ghan? Face to face of course, ya gutless wonder.

Ya rude little sh1t


You're sounding a tad defensive, Big-O. I didn't mean any disrespect towards Australian soldiers.

I was working in an office at the time of the Vietnam call-up, waiting for my marble to drop.

I should know better than to broach these issues with you Australians. Your isolation Down Here at the bottom of the world has made you people a little over-sensitive to any sort of inspection of an investigative kind.

You don't take criticism nearly as well as do the British or the Continental Europeans.

It just struck me as a bit far-fetched that MORE than just a few returning from tours of duty in Afghanistan are deemed to be emotionally incapable of gaffing a drowned body out of the water.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

As a matter of fact I've been watching Ross Kemp's serialised documentaries from the combat zone in Afghanistan. I'm hoping to gain more insight into the whole experience, and how it tears away at one sense of security.
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #8 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 10:57am  
It's always a surprise to me when you politely give your point of view and someone responds with abuse. Surely they can explain why you're incorrect? Instead we see this incoherency with added expletives which we're supposed to believe is meaningful.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #9 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 11:07am  
mantra wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 10:57am:
It's always a surprise to me when you politely give your point of view and someone responds with abuse. Surely they can explain why you're incorrect? Instead we see this incoherency with added expletives which we're supposed to believe means something.



I touched upon a Sacred Cow, and even mentioned that an appalling number of military personnel returning to Western nations after the war in Vietnam and the Middle East were found to be struggling with drug and alcohol addiction.

The cheapness and the availability within Asia's Golden Triangle made it more deadly than the enemy itself.

War is 9/10th sheer boredom and 1/10th sheer terror.

I think Big-O may have found my words to be a little too real and a little too close for comfort ~ and for that I apologise.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #10 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 11:11am  
mantra wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 10:57am:
It's always a surprise to me when you politely give your point of view and someone responds with abuse.


Or, as someone once said (who escapes my mind now)  Roll Eyes ~

Quote:
"You get to the point where you post something that you believe is thoughtful and then some inadequate little twerp decides to make a totally irrelevant and personal attack on you."  A Wise Lady


Smiley
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #11 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 11:38am  
mantra wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 10:57am:
It's always a surprise to me when you politely give your point of view and someone responds with abuse. Surely they can explain why you're incorrect? Instead we see this incoherency with added expletives which we're supposed to believe is meaningful.



If you consider his OP as polite then you must also accept my response to be measured and appropriate or neither of us are.


I never said my reply was meaningful, nor was it meant to be, it was just the correct response for the post and the poster.


This place is filled with nasty little scumbags hiding behind their keyboard talking sh1t about our servicemen and women I see no need to show them any measure of respect for their moronic vile little posts.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #12 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 1:06pm  
It's okay, Big-O ~ I've decided to put this issue back into the closet.
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #13 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 4:27pm  
Why are you talking about PSTD in Soldiers, and mentioning Afghanistan, when your link is to a story about Navy Personnel in Operation Resolute/Soverign Borders?

And, yes, I have seen first hand the impact of pulling dead bodies of men, women and children out of the sea has on our (mainly) Navy Personnel.  I think this is a real problem that will only become more and more prevalent as these young people reach middle age and the impact of what they went through finally surfaces.
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #14 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 5:45pm  
Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 5:37am:
link

I'm not entirely sure I understand this. Why do I have the feeling there's something a little suss about returned military personnel from an 11 year war in Afghanistan not being able to cope with fishing bodies out of the water with a 10-foot gaff-pole?

I think that lacks credibility.

And I think a couple of nasty habits picked up while on overseas service is all too often sanitised with glib clinical terminology such as 'Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder'.

'Heavy Drinking and Pot-Smoking Disorder' would be a little more accurate with a lot of them.

And these are indulged not so much to handle the fear, but to handle the excruciating boredom that war is mostly all about.



As usual, Herbie, you fail to understand because you don't want to understand.

I for one am glad that this issue is being at least discussed.  Having served with many who had undiagnosed PTSD and who self-medicated with Alcohol, if we'd known what they were suffering from, we might have been able to save more lives.   I've had good friends who ended up dead, invariably because of the drink, who should have had their problems looked after a long time before but they came from the generations which ignored their own mental health issues until it was too late.   The military refused to even acknowledge they had a problem.  The more understanding units merely tolerated their often alcoholic fuelled problems, accepting that it was them trying to work out their demons for themselves.
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BigOl64
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #15 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 6:07pm  
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 5:45pm:
Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 5:37am:
link

I'm not entirely sure I understand this. Why do I have the feeling there's something a little suss about returned military personnel from an 11 year war in Afghanistan not being able to cope with fishing bodies out of the water with a 10-foot gaff-pole?

I think that lacks credibility.

And I think a couple of nasty habits picked up while on overseas service is all too often sanitised with glib clinical terminology such as 'Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder'.

'Heavy Drinking and Pot-Smoking Disorder' would be a little more accurate with a lot of them.

And these are indulged not so much to handle the fear, but to handle the excruciating boredom that war is mostly all about.



As usual, Herbie, you fail to understand because you don't want to understand.

I for one am glad that this issue is being at least discussed.  Having served with many who had undiagnosed PTSD and who self-medicated with Alcohol, if we'd known what they were suffering from, we might have been able to save more lives.   I've had good friends who ended up dead, invariably because of the drink, who should have had their problems looked after a long time before but they came from the generations which ignored their own mental health issues until it was too late.   The military refused to even acknowledge they had a problem.  The more understanding units merely tolerated their often alcoholic fuelled problems, accepting that it was them trying to work out their demons for themselves.





It should definitely be discussed but not by idiot civilians looking to troll the message board to see who that can offend.


We will look after our own like we always have, no-one elses business but ours.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #16 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 7:27pm  
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 5:45pm:
As usual, Herbie, you fail to understand because you don't want to understand.

I for one am glad that this issue is being at least discussed.


Quote:
Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a set of mental health reactions that can develop in people who have experienced or witnessed an event that threatens their life or safety (or others around them) and leads to feelings of intense fear, helplessness or horror. This could be a car or other serious accident, physical or sexual assault, war-related events or torture, or a natural disaster such as bushfire or flood.


Quote:
Anyone can develop PTSD following a traumatic event but people are at greater risk if:

    The event involved physical or sexual assault
    They have had repeated traumatic experiences such as sexual abuse or living in a war zone
    They have suffered from PTSD in the past.


Quote:
Signs and symptoms

People with PTSD often experience feelings of panic or extreme fear, which may resemble what was felt during the traumatic event. A person with PTSD has three main types of difficulties:

    Reliving the traumatic event – through unwanted and recurring memories and vivid nightmares. There may be intense emotional or physical reactions when reminded of the event. These can include sweating, heart palpitations or panic.
    Being overly alert or ‘wound up’ – sleeping difficulties, irritability, lack of concentration, becoming easily startled and constantly being on the lookout for signs of danger.
    Avoiding reminders of the event and feeling emotionally numb – deliberately avoiding activities, places, people, thoughts or feelings associated with the event. People may lose interest in day-to-day activities, feel cut off and detached from friends and family, or feel flat and numb.


Quote:
It is not unusual for people with PTSD to experience other mental health problems at the same time. Up to 80 per cent of people who have long-standing PTSD develop additional problems, most commonly depression, anxiety and alcohol or other substance misuse. These may have developed directly in response to the traumatic event or have developed sometime later after the onset of PTSD.


link
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Brian Ross
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #17 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 7:32pm  
BigOl64 wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 6:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 5:45pm:
Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 5:37am:
link

I'm not entirely sure I understand this. Why do I have the feeling there's something a little suss about returned military personnel from an 11 year war in Afghanistan not being able to cope with fishing bodies out of the water with a 10-foot gaff-pole?

I think that lacks credibility.

And I think a couple of nasty habits picked up while on overseas service is all too often sanitised with glib clinical terminology such as 'Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder'.

'Heavy Drinking and Pot-Smoking Disorder' would be a little more accurate with a lot of them.

And these are indulged not so much to handle the fear, but to handle the excruciating boredom that war is mostly all about.



As usual, Herbie, you fail to understand because you don't want to understand.

I for one am glad that this issue is being at least discussed.  Having served with many who had undiagnosed PTSD and who self-medicated with Alcohol, if we'd known what they were suffering from, we might have been able to save more lives.   I've had good friends who ended up dead, invariably because of the drink, who should have had their problems looked after a long time before but they came from the generations which ignored their own mental health issues until it was too late.   The military refused to even acknowledge they had a problem.  The more understanding units merely tolerated their often alcoholic fuelled problems, accepting that it was them trying to work out their demons for themselves.





It should definitely be discussed but not by idiot civilians looking to troll the message board to see who that can offend.


I agree.  Herbie is a troll, indeed, HB calls him a "Master of the way of the troll".

Quote:
We will look after our own like we always have, no-one elses business but ours.


Partially I agree and partially I disagree.  I've seen how poor the military has been at "looking after it's own", in the past.   DVA, a civilian agency is better suited to it IMHO.   After WWII, they didn't have a name for it but they had to cope with it.  One only has to read Russell Braddon's description of the time he spent in a mental ward after returning from his experiences as a PoW of the Japanese on the Burma-Siam railway.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #18 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 7:55pm  
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 7:32pm:
One only has to read Russell Braddon's description of the time he spent in a mental ward after returning from his experiences as a PoW of the Japanese on the Burma-Siam railway.


I'm sure we've all read his 'Naked Island', but what was the title of this book you refer to?
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #19 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 8:01pm  
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 7:32pm:
Quote:
We will look after our own like we always have, no-one elses business but ours.


Partially I agree and partially I disagree.  I've seen how poor the military has been at "looking after it's own", in the past.   DVA, a civilian agency is better suited to it IMHO.   After WWII, they didn't have a name for it but they had to cope with it.  One only has to read Russell Braddon's description of the time he spent in a mental ward after returning from his experiences as a PoW of the Japanese on the Burma-Siam railway.



By 'we' I include the RSL, Legacy, DVA, ex-servicemen and women and to a much lesser degree the ADF itself. We have always had to looked after our own; I saw a story where the Vietnam Vets are now reaching out to the Afghanistan Vets  to provide help and guidance.

It's what we do and always have done.
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #20 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 8:45pm  
Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 7:55pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 7:32pm:
One only has to read Russell Braddon's description of the time he spent in a mental ward after returning from his experiences as a PoW of the Japanese on the Burma-Siam railway.


I'm sure we've all read his 'Naked Island', but what was the title of this book you refer to?


He wrote it in a magazine article I read many years ago, Herbie.  It was repeated in the ABC-TV series on "Australia at War".
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Brian Ross
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #21 - Nov 30th, 2013 at 8:47pm  
BigOl64 wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 8:01pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 7:32pm:
Quote:
We will look after our own like we always have, no-one elses business but ours.


Partially I agree and partially I disagree.  I've seen how poor the military has been at "looking after it's own", in the past.   DVA, a civilian agency is better suited to it IMHO.   After WWII, they didn't have a name for it but they had to cope with it.  One only has to read Russell Braddon's description of the time he spent in a mental ward after returning from his experiences as a PoW of the Japanese on the Burma-Siam railway.



By 'we' I include the RSL, Legacy, DVA, ex-servicemen and women and to a much lesser degree the ADF itself. We have always had to looked after our own; I saw a story where the Vietnam Vets are now reaching out to the Afghanistan Vets  to provide help and guidance.

It's what we do and always have done.


OK, now you've clarified it, yeah, I can support that.  The ADF itself has in the past sucked at this sort of thing.  Their attitudes have changed, just as the attitudes in society are changing WRT to mental illness.
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #22 - Dec 3rd, 2013 at 3:01pm  
Cool
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« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2013 at 5:02am by Neferti »  
 
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #23 - Dec 3rd, 2013 at 3:22pm  
Neferti wrote on Dec 3rd, 2013 at 3:01pm:
mantra wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 10:57am:
It's always a surprise to me when you politely give your point of view and someone responds with abuse. Surely they can explain why you're incorrect? Instead we see this incoherency with added expletives which we're supposed to believe is meaningful.


What has this opinion of yours about people swearing got to do with the subject matter ... i.e. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).


Get off Mantra's case, neferti. I'm grateful for your help with the PC and avatar matters, but there's no need to get bitchy with Mantra.

Ever since she joined my neighbourhood Colour Gang she has come under my protection.

Upset The Herb at your own risk.
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #24 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 5:04am  
...
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #25 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 6:54am  
...
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #26 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 8:54pm  
...

Grin

You know that's only going to turn Neferti on Herbert.

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 4th, 2013 at 6:54am:
Ever since she joined my neighbourhood Colour Gang she has come under my protection.

Upset The Herb at your own risk.


You're such a gentleman.  Smiley

Neferti wrote on Dec 3rd, 2013 at 3:01pm:
What has this opinion of yours about people swearing got to do with the subject matter ... i.e. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).


I like civilised conversations Neferti. That should come as no surprise to you. I bet if I had told BigO to get "you know what" - you wouldn't have even noticed.
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #27 - Dec 5th, 2013 at 7:13am  
There's often a latent or overtly aggressive homosexual motivation behind gratuitous and persistent prodding of someone for their attention regardless of the issues being discussed.

We witnessed this with 'Aussie' tracking me around the board to pop up at random and inappropriate times to distract me with ... "Hey! Over here! Look at me! Look at me! Hi, how are you, handsome?" (Using other words, of course, to mask the subtext).

I hope this is not the case with Neferti and her sudden detours to elicit Lady Mantra's attention. I don't want to visualise Neferti in a boiler-suit and a pudding-bowl haircut like New Zealand PM Helen Clark used to sport.

I think Neferti and I can be friends, but that depends on her reining in her aggressive impulses towards the fairer sex.  Kiss
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #28 - Dec 5th, 2013 at 12:46pm  
Oh, Sensei, you lay some new baits which are sweet and tasty.  You seem though, to be forgetting your vow of chastity by conspiring with these female type people.  This is not the Way of the Troll, Sensei!  You must contain your inner spirit, not waste it on pointless flirtation with female type people!  Otherwise I will be able to snatch those pebbles from those palsied hands and kick you out of MY dojo!   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #29 - Dec 5th, 2013 at 1:00pm  
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 7:13am:
There's often a latent or overtly aggressive homosexual motivation behind gratuitous and persistent prodding of someone for their attention regardless of the issues being discussed.

We witnessed this with 'Aussie' tracking me around the board to pop up at random and inappropriate times to distract me with ... "Hey! Over here! Look at me! Look at me! Hi, how are you, handsome?" (Using other words, of course, to mask the subtext).

I hope this is not the case with Neferti and her sudden detours to elicit Lady Mantra's attention. I don't want to visualise Neferti in a boiler-suit and a pudding-bowl haircut like New Zealand PM Helen Clark used to sport.

I think Neferti and I can be friends, but that depends on her reining in her aggressive impulses towards the fairer sex.  Kiss


...
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #30 - Dec 5th, 2013 at 1:24pm  
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 7:32pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 6:07pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 5:45pm:
Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 5:37am:
link

I'm not entirely sure I understand this. Why do I have the feeling there's something a little suss about returned military personnel from an 11 year war in Afghanistan not being able to cope with fishing bodies out of the water with a 10-foot gaff-pole?

I think that lacks credibility.

And I think a couple of nasty habits picked up while on overseas service is all too often sanitised with glib clinical terminology such as 'Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder'.

'Heavy Drinking and Pot-Smoking Disorder' would be a little more accurate with a lot of them.

And these are indulged not so much to handle the fear, but to handle the excruciating boredom that war is mostly all about.



As usual, Herbie, you fail to understand because you don't want to understand.

I for one am glad that this issue is being at least discussed.  Having served with many who had undiagnosed PTSD and who self-medicated with Alcohol, if we'd known what they were suffering from, we might have been able to save more lives.   I've had good friends who ended up dead, invariably because of the drink, who should have had their problems looked after a long time before but they came from the generations which ignored their own mental health issues until it was too late.   The military refused to even acknowledge they had a problem.  The more understanding units merely tolerated their often alcoholic fuelled problems, accepting that it was them trying to work out their demons for themselves.





It should definitely be discussed but not by idiot civilians looking to troll the message board to see who that can offend.


I agree.  Herbie is a troll, indeed, HB calls him a "Master of the way of the troll".

Quote:
We will look after our own like we always have, no-one elses business but ours.


Partially I agree and partially I disagree.  I've seen how poor the military has been at "looking after it's own", in the past.   DVA, a civilian agency is better suited to it IMHO.   After WWII, they didn't have a name for it but they had to cope with it.  One only has to read Russell Braddon's description of the time he spent in a mental ward after returning from his experiences as a PoW of the Japanese on the Burma-Siam railway.


They did indeed have a name for PTSD in WW1, it was commonly referred to as Shell Shock only after they shot quite a few, firstly calling them cowards and only later during the Great War did they realise that they were definitely suffering from extreme physiological damage.

BigOl, I sincerely hope your reference to "European Softcocks" did NOT include British Troops?
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #31 - Dec 5th, 2013 at 1:32pm  
Is it possible to call Conscientious Objectors Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder patients?

Wasn't it Bill Clinton who escaped to Canada to get out of the draft for Vietnam?

Or was that Cassius Clay? Elvis?
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #32 - Dec 5th, 2013 at 1:45pm  
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 1:32pm:
Is it possible to call Conscientious Objectors Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder patients?

Wasn't it Bill Clinton who escaped to Canada to get out of the draft for Vietnam?

Or was that Cassius Clay? Elvis?



Which war did you fight in, Herbie? I believe you came to Oz in time to be drafted for Vietnam? Or did you miss out on that as a £10 Pom?
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #33 - Dec 5th, 2013 at 2:11pm  
Neferti wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 1:45pm:
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 1:32pm:
Is it possible to call Conscientious Objectors Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder patients?

Wasn't it Bill Clinton who escaped to Canada to get out of the draft for Vietnam?

Or was that Cassius Clay? Elvis?



Which war did you fight in, Herbie? I believe you came to Oz in time to be drafted for Vietnam? Or did you miss out on that as a £10 Pom?


Hi Neferti. I actually wasn't a £10 Pom. My marble didn't drop into the barrel, thank God.

The Australian politicians who made it compulsory to fight in Vietnam should all have long since been executed as war criminals.

With Afghanistan there's some justification for fighting the Taliban who gave succor and a home-base for the likes of al-Qaeda and their murderous '9/11', but with Vietnam it was simply political whimsy about a 'domino theory' that cost so many good people (on both sides) their lives.

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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #34 - Dec 5th, 2013 at 2:38pm  
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 2:11pm:
Neferti wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 1:45pm:
Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 1:32pm:
Is it possible to call Conscientious Objectors Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder patients?

You were probably too old to be drafted anyway.

Wasn't it Bill Clinton who escaped to Canada to get out of the draft for Vietnam?

Or was that Cassius Clay? Elvis?



Which war did you fight in, Herbie? I believe you came to Oz in time to be drafted for Vietnam? Or did you miss out on that as a £10 Pom?


Hi Neferti. I actually wasn't a £10 Pom. My marble didn't drop into the barrel, thank God.

The Australian politicians who made it compulsory to fight in Vietnam should all have long since been executed as war criminals.

With Afghanistan there's some justification for fighting the Taliban who gave succor and a home-base for the likes of al-Qaeda and their murderous '9/11', but with Vietnam it was simply political whimsy about a 'domino theory' that cost so many good people (on both sides) their lives.



Vietnam was way before my time. You are far too old to have been a marble in the barrel. They were ONLY 19 when conscription came in .... and those blokes are only 60-62 these days.  At least 10 years younger than you state you are. Grin

All the Way with LBJ, wasn't it?

As far as other Wars that the Yanks have gotten themselves into ......

I wonder what the next one will be ..........  Roll Eyes
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #35 - Dec 5th, 2013 at 3:11pm  
Neferti wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 2:38pm:
Vietnam was way before my time. You are far too old to have been a marble in the barrel. They were ONLY 19 when subscription came in .... and those blokes are only 60-62 these days.  At least 10 years younger than you state you are. Grin

All the Way with LBJ, wasn't it?

As far as other Wars that the Yanks have gotten themselves into ......

I wonder what the next one will be ..........  Roll Eyes


Angola. To re-install the Muslims back into the country.  Tongue
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #36 - Dec 5th, 2013 at 3:29pm  
Thus the flag avatar? Do you speak Portuguese?
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #37 - Dec 5th, 2013 at 4:06pm  
Neferti wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 3:29pm:
Thus the flag avatar? Do you speak Portuguese?


You must have missed the news.

Angola is the second country since Spain to start a process of de-Islamisation by removing mosques and trucking Muslims to the borders.

They simply don't want to follow the example of Nigeria where Muslim-on-Christian slaughter has become a routine event.

Angola is simply taking sensible precautions to secure peace for their future generations by not allowing the Muslim community to grow and become an increasingly rival and dangerous political force within the country.

If political correctness didn't reign in Oslo, next year's Nobel Peace Prize would certainly be awarded to Angola for their foresight in ensuring that Islam doesn't grow to be a terrorist organisation within that country in future years.

 

 


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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #38 - Dec 5th, 2013 at 4:40pm  
viewpoint wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 1:24pm:
BigOl, I sincerely hope your reference to "European Softcocks" did NOT include British Troops?



It's what ever soft c0ck country herbert comes from.
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #39 - Dec 5th, 2013 at 6:30pm  
Neferti wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 3:29pm:
Thus the flag avatar? Do you speak Portuguese?


My mother told me we have Portuguese in our ancestry, but I haven't found it yet.
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #40 - Dec 5th, 2013 at 6:51pm  
BigOl64 wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 4:40pm:
viewpoint wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 1:24pm:
BigOl, I sincerely hope your reference to "European Softcocks" did NOT include British Troops?



It's what ever soft c0ck country herbert comes from.




So you're just another gobshite who has a problem with their own confidence. I have my doubts that you have ever served.
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #41 - Dec 6th, 2013 at 6:43am  
viewpoint wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 6:51pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 4:40pm:
viewpoint wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 1:24pm:
BigOl, I sincerely hope your reference to "European Softcocks" did NOT include British Troops?



It's what ever soft c0ck country herbert comes from.




So you're just another gobshite who has a problem with their own confidence. I have my doubts that you have ever served.



So, you read herbert's initial reply to me before posting this load of wank. Or are you just another civvie deadsh1t out trolling the defence board?

Either way, I could not give a flying bugger what your opinion is or isn't. If you haven't served youreself, shut the bugger up and go somewhere else to do your trolling.  Angry

Friggen getting sick of friggen school holiday's when these idiot children start posting sh1t.
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #42 - Dec 6th, 2013 at 7:48am  
mantra wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 10:57am:
It's always a surprise to me when you politely give your point of view and someone responds with abuse. Surely they can explain why you're incorrect? Instead we see this incoherency with added expletives which we're supposed to believe is meaningful.




Coming to the realisation that one is nothing more than a disposable pawn, makes some people a little grumpy. 


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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #43 - Dec 6th, 2013 at 12:13pm  
greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 6th, 2013 at 7:48am:
mantra wrote on Nov 30th, 2013 at 10:57am:
It's always a surprise to me when you politely give your point of view and someone responds with abuse. Surely they can explain why you're incorrect? Instead we see this incoherency with added expletives which we're supposed to believe is meaningful.




Coming to the realisation that one is nothing more than a disposable pawn, makes some people a little grumpy. 


Exactly.

Being a prawn in someone's salad and DROWNING in cheap No Name Brand Mayonnaise is NOT amusing.
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #44 - Dec 6th, 2013 at 1:46pm  
BigOl64 wrote on Dec 6th, 2013 at 6:43am:
viewpoint wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 6:51pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 4:40pm:
viewpoint wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 1:24pm:
BigOl, I sincerely hope your reference to "European Softcocks" did NOT include British Troops?



It's what ever soft c0ck country herbert comes from.




So you're just another gobshite who has a problem with their own confidence. I have my doubts that you have ever served.



So, you read herbert's initial reply to me before posting this load of wank. Or are you just another civvie deadsh1t out trolling the defence board?

Either way, I could not give a flying bugger what your opinion is or isn't. If you haven't served youreself, shut the bugger up and go somewhere else to do your trolling.  Angry

Friggen getting sick of friggen school holiday's when these idiot children start posting sh1t.






Pearls of wisdom from Walter Mitty...............who sounds like a kid himself......

Your full of it bigmouth64
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #45 - Dec 6th, 2013 at 2:14pm  
I think BigO(rifice) is on a roll!   Grin

Don't stop NOW, BigO(MG)!  Grin
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #46 - Dec 6th, 2013 at 2:23pm  
viewpoint wrote on Dec 6th, 2013 at 1:46pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Dec 6th, 2013 at 6:43am:
viewpoint wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 6:51pm:
BigOl64 wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 4:40pm:
viewpoint wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 1:24pm:
BigOl, I sincerely hope your reference to "European Softcocks" did NOT include British Troops?



It's what ever soft c0ck country herbert comes from.




So you're just another gobshite who has a problem with their own confidence. I have my doubts that you have ever served.



So, you read herbert's initial reply to me before posting this load of wank. Or are you just another civvie deadsh1t out trolling the defence board?

Either way, I could not give a flying bugger what your opinion is or isn't. If you haven't served youreself, shut the bugger up and go somewhere else to do your trolling.  Angry

Friggen getting sick of friggen school holiday's when these idiot children start posting sh1t.






Pearls of wisdom from Walter Mitty...............who sounds like a kid himself......

Your full of it bigmouth64





Weren't you told to bugger off, little boy?


Do what you are told by your betters, and will suffer less b1tch slaps through your tedious little life.
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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #47 - Dec 6th, 2013 at 3:28pm  
BigOl64 wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 4:40pm:
viewpoint wrote on Dec 5th, 2013 at 1:24pm:
BigOl, I sincerely hope your reference to "European Softcocks" did NOT include British Troops?



It's what ever soft c0ck country herbert comes from.





Isn't that the PRC?  Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #48 - Jan 16th, 2014 at 3:48pm  
Very sad.

This is probably a case of PTS disorder.

Quote:
An Australian soldier who has been missing in the US for 16 days has failed to turn up for his return flight to Australia.

Captain Paul McKay disappeared on New Year's Eve after catching a bus to a remote town near the Canadian border and walking into the Adirondack mountains in freezing conditions.

His father raised the alarm after he received an email in which Captain McKay said he was giving him all his property and possessions.

Captain McKay had never been to the US before and is not known to have any contacts there.

His flight from Newark to Los Angeles was due to leave at 1:25 pm on Wednesday (local time), but he did not show up.


link
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