Australian Politics Forum - Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.

BigOl64

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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #15 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 6:07pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 5:45pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 5:37am:

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I'm not entirely sure I understand this. Why do I have the feeling there's something a little suss about returned military personnel from an 11 year war in Afghanistan not being able to cope with fishing bodies out of the water with a 10-foot gaff-pole?

I think that lacks credibility.

And I think a couple of nasty habits picked up while on overseas service is all too often sanitised with glib clinical terminology such as 'Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder'.

'Heavy Drinking and Pot-Smoking Disorder' would be a little more accurate with a lot of them.

And these are indulged not so much to handle the fear, but to handle the excruciating boredom that war is mostly all about.

As usual, Herbie, you fail to understand because you don't want to understand.

I for one am glad that this issue is being at least discussed. Having served with many who had undiagnosed PTSD and who self-medicated with Alcohol, if we'd known what they were suffering from, we might have been able to save more lives. I've had good friends who ended up dead, invariably because of the drink, who should have had their problems looked after a long time before but they came from the generations which ignored their own mental health issues until it was too late. The military refused to even acknowledge they had a problem. The more understanding units merely tolerated their often alcoholic fuelled problems, accepting that it was them trying to work out their demons for themselves.

It should definitely be discussed but not by idiot civilians looking to troll the message board to see who that can offend.

We will look after our own like we always have, no-one elses business but ours.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #16 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:27pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 5:45pm:

As usual, Herbie, you fail to understand because you don't want to understand.

I for one am glad that this issue is being at least discussed.

Quote:

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a set of mental health reactions that can develop in people who have experienced or witnessed an event that threatens their life or safety (or others around them) and leads to feelings of intense fear, helplessness or horror. This could be a car or other serious accident, physical or sexual assault, war-related events or torture, or a natural disaster such as bushfire or flood.

Quote:

Anyone can develop PTSD following a traumatic event but people are at greater risk if:

The event involved physical or sexual assault
They have had repeated traumatic experiences such as sexual abuse or living in a war zone
They have suffered from PTSD in the past.

Quote:

Signs and symptoms

People with PTSD often experience feelings of panic or extreme fear, which may resemble what was felt during the traumatic event. A person with PTSD has three main types of difficulties:

Reliving the traumatic event – through unwanted and recurring memories and vivid nightmares. There may be intense emotional or physical reactions when reminded of the event. These can include sweating, heart palpitations or panic.
Being overly alert or ‘wound up’ – sleeping difficulties, irritability, lack of concentration, becoming easily startled and constantly being on the lookout for signs of danger.
Avoiding reminders of the event and feeling emotionally numb – deliberately avoiding activities, places, people, thoughts or feelings associated with the event. People may lose interest in day-to-day activities, feel cut off and detached from friends and family, or feel flat and numb.

Quote:

It is not unusual for people with PTSD to experience other mental health problems at the same time. Up to 80 per cent of people who have long-standing PTSD develop additional problems, most commonly depression, anxiety and alcohol or other substance misuse. These may have developed directly in response to the traumatic event or have developed sometime later after the onset of PTSD.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #17 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:32pm

BigOl64 wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 6:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 5:45pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 5:37am:

link

I'm not entirely sure I understand this. Why do I have the feeling there's something a little suss about returned military personnel from an 11 year war in Afghanistan not being able to cope with fishing bodies out of the water with a 10-foot gaff-pole?

I think that lacks credibility.

And I think a couple of nasty habits picked up while on overseas service is all too often sanitised with glib clinical terminology such as 'Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder'.

'Heavy Drinking and Pot-Smoking Disorder' would be a little more accurate with a lot of them.

And these are indulged not so much to handle the fear, but to handle the excruciating boredom that war is mostly all about.

As usual, Herbie, you fail to understand because you don't want to understand.

I for one am glad that this issue is being at least discussed. Having served with many who had undiagnosed PTSD and who self-medicated with Alcohol, if we'd known what they were suffering from, we might have been able to save more lives. I've had good friends who ended up dead, invariably because of the drink, who should have had their problems looked after a long time before but they came from the generations which ignored their own mental health issues until it was too late. The military refused to even acknowledge they had a problem. The more understanding units merely tolerated their often alcoholic fuelled problems, accepting that it was them trying to work out their demons for themselves.

It should definitely be discussed but not by idiot civilians looking to troll the message board to see who that can offend.

I agree. Herbie is a troll, indeed, HB calls him a "Master of the way of the troll".

Quote:

We will look after our own like we always have, no-one elses business but ours.

Partially I agree and partially I disagree. I've seen how poor the military has been at "looking after it's own", in the past. DVA, a civilian agency is better suited to it IMHO. After WWII, they didn't have a name for it but they had to cope with it. One only has to read Russell Braddon's description of the time he spent in a mental ward after returning from his experiences as a PoW of the Japanese on the Burma-Siam railway.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #18 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:55pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:32pm:

One only has to read Russell Braddon's description of the time he spent in a mental ward after returning from his experiences as a PoW of the Japanese on the Burma-Siam railway.

I'm sure we've all read his 'Naked Island', but what was the title of this book you refer to?

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BigOl64

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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #19 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 8:01pm

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:32pm:

Quote:

We will look after our own like we always have, no-one elses business but ours.

Partially I agree and partially I disagree. I've seen how poor the military has been at "looking after it's own", in the past. DVA, a civilian agency is better suited to it IMHO. After WWII, they didn't have a name for it but they had to cope with it. One only has to read Russell Braddon's description of the time he spent in a mental ward after returning from his experiences as a PoW of the Japanese on the Burma-Siam railway.

By 'we' I include the RSL, Legacy, DVA, ex-servicemen and women and to a much lesser degree the ADF itself. We have always had to looked after our own; I saw a story where the Vietnam Vets are now reaching out to the Afghanistan Vets to provide help and guidance.

It's what we do and always have done.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #20 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 8:45pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:55pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:32pm:

One only has to read Russell Braddon's description of the time he spent in a mental ward after returning from his experiences as a PoW of the Japanese on the Burma-Siam railway.

I'm sure we've all read his 'Naked Island', but what was the title of this book you refer to?

He wrote it in a magazine article I read many years ago, Herbie. It was repeated in the ABC-TV series on "Australia at War".

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Brian Ross

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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #21 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 8:47pm

BigOl64 wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 8:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:32pm:

Quote:

We will look after our own like we always have, no-one elses business but ours.

Partially I agree and partially I disagree. I've seen how poor the military has been at "looking after it's own", in the past. DVA, a civilian agency is better suited to it IMHO. After WWII, they didn't have a name for it but they had to cope with it. One only has to read Russell Braddon's description of the time he spent in a mental ward after returning from his experiences as a PoW of the Japanese on the Burma-Siam railway.

By 'we' I include the RSL, Legacy, DVA, ex-servicemen and women and to a much lesser degree the ADF itself. We have always had to looked after our own; I saw a story where the Vietnam Vets are now reaching out to the Afghanistan Vets to provide help and guidance.

It's what we do and always have done.

OK, now you've clarified it, yeah, I can support that. The ADF itself has in the past sucked at this sort of thing. Their attitudes have changed, just as the attitudes in society are changing WRT to mental illness.

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Neferti Gold Member Offline Posts: 7965 Canberra Gender:	Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers. Reply #22 - Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 3:01pm
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #23 - Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 3:22pm

Neferti wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 3:01pm:

mantra wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 10:57am:

It's always a surprise to me when you politely give your point of view and someone responds with abuse. Surely they can explain why you're incorrect? Instead we see this incoherency with added expletives which we're supposed to believe is meaningful.

What has this opinion of yours about people swearing got to do with the subject matter ... i.e. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).

Get off Mantra's case, neferti. I'm grateful for your help with the PC and avatar matters, but there's no need to get bitchy with Mantra.

Ever since she joined my neighbourhood Colour Gang she has come under my protection.

Upset The Herb at your own risk.

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Neferti Gold Member Offline Posts: 7965 Canberra Gender:	Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers. Reply #24 - Dec 4^th, 2013 at 5:04am
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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers. Reply #25 - Dec 4^th, 2013 at 6:54am
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mantra

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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #26 - Dec 4^th, 2013 at 8:54pm

You know that's only going to turn Neferti on Herbert.

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 4^th, 2013 at 6:54am:

Ever since she joined my neighbourhood Colour Gang she has come under my protection.

Upset The Herb at your own risk.

You're such a gentleman.

Neferti wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 3:01pm:

What has this opinion of yours about people swearing got to do with the subject matter ... i.e. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).

I like civilised conversations Neferti. That should come as no surprise to you. I bet if I had told BigO to get "you know what" - you wouldn't have even noticed.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #27 - Dec 5^th, 2013 at 7:13am

There's often a latent or overtly aggressive homosexual motivation behind gratuitous and persistent prodding of someone for their attention regardless of the issues being discussed.

We witnessed this with 'Aussie' tracking me around the board to pop up at random and inappropriate times to distract me with ... "Hey! Over here! Look at me! Look at me! Hi, how are you, handsome?" (Using other words, of course, to mask the subtext).

I hope this is not the case with Neferti and her sudden detours to elicit Lady Mantra's attention. I don't want to visualise Neferti in a boiler-suit and a pudding-bowl haircut like New Zealand PM Helen Clark used to sport.

I think Neferti and I can be friends, but that depends on her reining in her aggressive impulses towards the fairer sex. Kiss

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|dev|null

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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #28 - Dec 5^th, 2013 at 12:46pm

Oh, Sensei, you lay some new baits which are sweet and tasty. You seem though, to be forgetting your vow of chastity by conspiring with these female type people. This is not the Way of the Troll, Sensei! You must contain your inner spirit, not waste it on pointless flirtation with female type people! Otherwise I will be able to snatch those pebbles from those palsied hands and kick you out of MY dojo! Cheesy

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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Neferti

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Re: Post-traumatic Stress of returned soldiers.
Reply #29 - Dec 5^th, 2013 at 1:00pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 5^th, 2013 at 7:13am:

There's often a latent or overtly aggressive homosexual motivation behind gratuitous and persistent prodding of someone for their attention regardless of the issues being discussed.

We witnessed this with 'Aussie' tracking me around the board to pop up at random and inappropriate times to distract me with ... "Hey! Over here! Look at me! Look at me! Hi, how are you, handsome?" (Using other words, of course, to mask the subtext).

I hope this is not the case with Neferti and her sudden detours to elicit Lady Mantra's attention. I don't want to visualise Neferti in a boiler-suit and a pudding-bowl haircut like New Zealand PM Helen Clark used to sport.

I think Neferti and I can be friends, but that depends on her reining in her aggressive impulses towards the fairer sex. Kiss

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