Back, and to the left.

Multiple shooters, the grassy knoll.....the grassy knoll!!! 

In any case there were more than 3 shots fired.

Another ridiculous theory designed to confuse the public even further.

All we know for certain, is that Oswald was NOT the sole assassin. I doubt whether Oswald fired any shots at all. You only need to see his face when the media first questioned him. He didn't even know what he was charged with.

Follow the Jacob Rubenstein trail.

Follow the coroners and doctors who examined the body of JFK.

Follow the scents....

they don't lead to Oswald

Only if you accept that Governor John Connelly was hit from behind the vehicle while turned sideways by a bullet that turned 90 deg in midair after passing JFK completely.

Do a frame by frame of the Zapruder tape - you will see that at the moment of impact, when the breath blows out of his lungs and expands his cheeks - Connelly  is turned nearly backwards to see WTF is happening to JFK behind him.

Second gunman to the left of motorcade.

Follow your triangulation principles and you will then place a third gunman at the front right of the vehicle.

Now - I read the book Fatal Error (I think) and I noted that the author stated 'a high velocity, frangible round**' from the front, apparently fired from an AR-15 carried by a Secret Service man in the lead car (not the chase car) who slipped and had an AD.

No casing..no discharge noted elsewhere etc, and this begs the question - how did any such discharge miss the windscreen, the driver/flunkey in the front seats, Connelly and his wife.. and strike JFK near perfect in about where a carefully aimed shot from the right front would do so?

JFK was clearly shot from the front - X-Rays of his skull showed the 'characteristic metal storm' of a high velocity frangible round' at the REAR of his skull - not the front - meaning entry was from the front.

Three gunmen.  The first, at about the SECOND level of the SBR - hit JFK - the second - in a remarkable feat of co-ordination, training and/or fast thinking*** - removed Connelly from the line of sight of the third gunman (for the simple reason that gunman 2 could not get a clear shot at JFK from the left - if he had been sitting on the left - different story) at the right front, for a clear shot at JFK that would miss the windscreen and the flunkey etc.

I discussed this once with a Commando officer - he suggested perhaps a Sako 7mm... but the options are wide....without the pieces of that bullet.

The Grassy Knoll is looking good.... sorry.

** 'frangible round  - is a very thin-jacketed round, such as the standard 5.56mm, which, by being thin jacketed and of high velocity, breaks up on impact, thus imparting its momentum to its target, rather than passing through.  It is the closest thing to a dum-dum bullet that can be legally used, and is common in most NATO weapons these days.  Even the Russians did a 5.65mm for the same characteristics with the AK74.

*** This alone suggests to me perhaps two groups in the world capable of such a precision shoot.  I will not say who.


Footnote:-  No REAL sniper carves down the jacket on his rounds as often seen in movies - to do so would affect the flight of the projectile and unbalance it.

ADDS:-  This was a highly profession hit by a highly professional team of no less than six - three shooters and three spotters, working like one body.

Name your suspects......I can.  But I still don't know why.

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 4:32pm:


Not sure about this drain.

Jacob Rubenstein aka Jack Ruby was a night club owner with Mob connections.  He shot Oswald out of 'patriotic zeal' so the official story goes.

Abraham Zapruder, standing beside his wife, was filming the motorcade, and took THE definitive film of the shooting, capturing every hit.  The FBI looked his film over and said it had no value to their investigation.

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:23pm:

HE WAS AN ARMS DEALER SO HOW CAN THAT EXPLAIN IT?? OH, CATHOLICISM??? NOW I'M CONFUSED! 

There were a number of groups that could have wanted Kennedy dead.

The Mafia had lost huge income when Castro took over Cuba. The Bay of Pigs debacle wouldn't have helped the Cosa Nostra's humour.

Organised crime gangs were well aware Robert K was coming after them.

Cuban groups in Florida were angry about the BOP.

Arms manufacturers could see their profits falling if the Vietnam War ended.

Billy Jack wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 9:05pm:


Well - if there was no burying going on - it's all one hell of a coincidence..... 

longweekend58 wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 9:55pm:


Everything Murdoch tells you is true

He cares deeply about your access to the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11110

Executive Order 11110
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Executive Order 11110 was issued by U.S. President John F. Kennedy on June 4, 1963.
This executive order delegated to the Secretary of the Treasury the President's authority to issue silver certificates under the Thomas Amendment of the Agricultural Adjustment Act, as amended by the Gold Reserve Act. The order allowed the Secretary to issue silver certificates, if any were needed, during the transition period under President Kennedy's plan to eliminate silver certificates.

___________

this was one of the reasons

satanic/saturnic freemasons had JFK killed

through MK ULTRA

all is being revealed

so be at peace

namaste

ॐ

Yes, Oswald was also accidentally shot when Jacob rubensteins gun ACCIDENTALLY fired

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 10:53pm:


...and yet you don't know how many shots were fired

it_is_the_light wrote on Oct 25^th, 2013 at 10:05pm:



Thank you Master Light for shining truth on a well known cover up.

It was about the silver and the fact that JFK was loathe to play the puppet game. He was going against the establishment, he had to be eliminated.

No president has been game to challenge the power brokers since the demise of JFK. See how they dance to the tune of the Federal Reserve.

It is only now, these last couple of years that other nations have started to swing away from the US$ fiat money. I hope the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Iran, China or Russia don't meet with a terrible accident.

Oswald says, I was just cleaning my gun when it went off...... twice.....whoops!

OR

Secret Service Agent says, I was just cleaning my gun in the escort vehicle and it went off.......but it was a good smacking shot wasn't it.....whoops!

Elvis did it!

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 6:26am:



Correct.

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 8:50am:


Are you agreeing with MY theory, or just accepting it as a fact?

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

bogarde73 wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 3:12pm:




I sincerely doubt that  is true

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 6:17am:


blessings lighted ones

and ever since the JFK hit all other presidents

have been freemasonic , hand chosen to ascend

its very easy now with electronic voting yet many

are clueless and vote oblivious to the fact of who counts

these votes.... and these are programs from computers.

masonic oaths super seeding any oath of public office

are an act of duplicity and a treasonous offence.

the pantomime continues yet the finally is here

everyone is on the edge of their collective seat

as it were, so carry on regardless

and be at peace

namaste

ॐ

blessings



Published on Aug 18, 2013
Jay Weidner joins us on"Shattering The Matrix". He speaks about Stanley Kubrick's involvement in creating the "Faked" Moon Landings. He then puts on his "hat" of modern-day Indiana Jones and begins to reveal things he has not revealed in any Radio Show before! So, you are all getting it for the first time!

He goes in depth into the Archons/Entities that are controlling this planet but he reveals an amazing link to the Nazis, Kubrick, J.R.R. Tolkien, 911 & Rennes-le-chateau! Join us for this amazing investigative journey in discovering what is at the root of the evil on the planet and how it may culminate in a very large False-Flag/Staged Event to get us to relinquish our freedom to the dark forces.

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In addition, he is the co-author of The Mysteries of the Great Cross of Hendaye; Alchemy and the End of..., (Destiny Books) and A Monument to the End of Time(with Vincent Bridges), as well as a contributing writer for the book, The Mystery of 2012.




Click link below to listen to the show:

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Please Share with everyone...
Category
Education

_______________

here is an interview with Jay Weidner

explosive information in the first 15 minutes *

speaking upon many matters from

the first fake moon landing

JFK and other anti gravity technology that was

to be released to the world by JFK ....

look here at 1:40 and these 3 just ' returned '

from the moon...



Apollo 11 Press Conference

have a look at these men whom

were forced to lie and create a false reality

nek minute ...

namaste

ॐ

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 2:57pm:


Actually, again you are wrong.  The M16 did not originally have the manual bolt-assist it was added on the last production models.  The M16a1 did from the outset.  I've handled AR-15, XM-16, M16 and M16a1s.  The apart from the bolt-assist, they differed in the flash hider and the pistol grips.  How often, often becaause of remanufacture, upgrade or repair you'd often see a mix of characteristics on weapons which were not those of their original manufacture.

Quote:


No, it wasn't.  The 5.56x45mm M193 has never been described in my experience as "frangible".  Indeed, the M555 round is the purpose built frangible one in that calibre.  If the M193 was intended from the outset to be "frangible" why did need another round to fulfil that role?  The M193 was not a terribly successful round and was only adopted for one other military firearm that reached production, the French FAMAS assault rifle.  It was prone to tumbling and hence dispersion.  It is a full-metal jacketed round.

Quote:


No, they are not an "urban myth".  I've observed the M193's tendency to tumble and the literature is full of references to it.  Some, like the Soviet 5.56x45mm round are designed to tumble, after striking a target and as they penetrate to increase wounding.  The German version of 7.62x51mm has a slightly higher muzzle velocity compared to the standard NATO round and has also been shown, because of the higher twist used in German barrels to display similar wounding characteristics because of tumbling which occurs after striking a human target.  The M193's problem was that it was prone to tumbling before it hit the target, at longer ranges, which increased it's dispersion and hence decreased it's accuracy.

Quote:


An interesting link.  Unfortunately it does not support your claim that 5.56x45mm M193 rounds are "frangible".  Indeed, it uses the nomenclature "FMJ" which stands for, yes, "Full-Metal-Jacket" which are definitely NOT "frangible".   

The only time I've heard reference to M-16 round stumbling - apart from basic training when we did not have those weapons - was after they ahd strukc something like a small branch or even leaves.  They do NOT tumble in the air as designed - to do so would destroy their effectiveness as a ballistic weapon.

I read - only - once that certain Special Forces people use a file to create a boar's tooth in the barrel to cause tumbling - but I dismiss this - NO SF people I know would ruin their weapon's accuracy.

Again - the thin jacket - albeit FMJ - design of the 5.56mm round CREATES it as a frangible round - it is in the design.  To do otherwise - such as have a soft point etc - is against the Geneva Convention, and this was as close as the designers could get to a dum-dum legally.

BTW - I have seen M-60s fitted with hollow points - supposed designed for anti-aircraft use... but hey - who's gonna tell?

And apparently the biggest problem with the early M-16s was the ammunition used - if you read that link they discuss the use of low grade ammunition causing a high amount of residue - later resolved partially by chroming the slide, receiver etc... but not resolved until the alter models came into play.

Footnote:-  Early CAR-15s had a reputation for jamming as well - same cause.

Anyway - while it is possible for the Secret Service guy in the LEAD car to had had an AD - I do not see how that round could have struck JFK.  Every angle is wrong and here are too many obstructions.  JFK was in the third row seat on the right - hard to hit with such an AD without hitting the windscreen or another person first.

Too coincidental - and from my analysis of the book written on the issue of the AD - I found a few false leads involved - but I refer you again to the Zapruder Film and the clear presence of a second gunman to the left of the motorcade who took out John Connelly to provide a clear shot from right front.

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 1:02pm:


I chose a nation where the AGW denialist religious crack pot intensity is the highest in the world.

I am sure you can empathise with their church group meetings

But even in the USA the denialists are in a minority

DId you notice that Greggy?

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 4:51pm:


I agree with that.

But you have to remember that security forces and police were issues with Super Vels and other purpose made frangible rounds too, even in the early 60s.

What do y'all think of the trigger guard issue? Perhaps he had an accident, especially when the rear card sped up.

Was it an M16? Or an AR15? Both are might powerful weapons friends.

Why aint it possible for an AD to have come from the rear vehicle from a man standing in the back seat? Why are them angles all wrong.

This theory is crazy sauce. 

*sighs - I wouldn't touch a Soldier of fortune magazine in a fit.  The 'boar's tooth' was written by a terrorism/counter-terrorism advisor to Bill Clinton, bringing laughs all round.

Fact remains that a tumbling bullet is good for twenty feet or so, and has no value whatsoever in a ballistic weapon.

AND - the SS agent was in the LEAD car - NOT the trail car (how many times, O lord!), and the fact of the X-rayed 'metal storm characteristic of a high velocity frangible round' at the rear of JFK's skull - such as the thin-jacketed FMJ 5.56 round IS due to its thin jacket and high velocity, a deliberate design formula to give maximum effect from the small diameter round - indicate impact from the front - in the film on the right side between forehead and ear - which in no way fits with an AD by a SS agent in the rear seat of the LEAD car stumbling and not even noticing or leaving a spent cartridge.

Think it through - JFK is still facing forward and head down, having been hit in the neck and back, and clutching his neck - the lead car is directly in front.

How does an AR-15 round (not an M-16) from the LEAD car hit him right front of head and spread to the back of his skull?

Right front, gentlemen... right front..... at about 1 o'clock.. right about the grassy knoll.

Clear third shooter in triangulation with the second on the left of the motorcade at about 10 o'clock, first shooter at 6 o'clock to avoid each other's line of fire.

Four shots.....four hits......

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 26^th, 2013 at 10:05pm:


Tumbling bullets don't necessarily tumble until further than twenty feet from the muzzle.

I take it you've given up on your ridiculous claims WRT to "frangible bullets" then?  You do realise that your claim has brought "laughs all round"?

Quote:


You do realise how open the Grassy Knoll was and how it was under observation throughout the motocade, both by people on it and those opposite it?



Where do you claim the gunman or gunmen were hidden?

I'm not going to continue to discuss over and over the designed thin jacket frangible round - it's a fact - and there are a zillion spots on the knoll, which fits perfectly with both the triangulation and shot line to JFKs head.

Tumbling rounds are inaccurate.. you just verified my statement with your own comment about their not tumbling until twenty feet from the barrel.. How accurate do you think they'll be after that?

Jesus.

Some people here are plain stupid or outright dreamers.

Brian - baby - in between laughs - if YOU'VE got a theory - how about you show it instead of posting negatives that contribute nothing to the discussion?  People who have nothing to contribute but negatives  are not worth hearing.

The round under discussion is designed as a frangible round for greatest impact, and no accurate round tumbles in midair or is designed to do so. Any that do are faulty and anyone who uses one is an idiot.      If you have ONE fact to suggest otherwise - please - by all means - ante up!     You either can't read or you are just trolling for an argument.  Good luck!         

And YOU have produced not one iota of anything to support anything - and a cursory glance at your photograph will clearly show you innumerable spots.

*cracks popcorn and awaits something more than rhetoric, opinion and remotely like a valid response.  You got a scenario there Pilgrim - or are you just talkin' through that hat?  You cited NO evidence on frangible ammunition - you offered a view, now stop wasting time and offer a viable alternative on the JFK kill instead of sniping.....

And - lest we forget - regardless of the FACT that the rounds in the AR-15 were thin jacket designed so as to BE frangible - I said the shot did NOT come from that weapon, so it matters not what ammunition he was using - I said a 'high velocity, frangible round' as shown clearly by the X-rays of JFK's skull showing the characteristic metal storm at the REAR... showing impact from the front.  As I said - a Commando officer I discussed this with suggested a 7mm Sako...

Sorry to drag you back to subject and issue.

Right front - one o'clock - look at the trees and walls and etc etc that goes on forever.  Look at the people on that side who have hit the ground... the Ross photo is after the event and not in the line of fire from that point, so you cannot see any precise spot amongst the dozens available there in shade on a bright day or under some cover.

I believe one witness, an ex-Army man - said the shot(s) went past him... and he knew the sound....   

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 6:23pm:


I pointed out that frangible ammunition wasn't introduced into widespread service until the 1990s.  I provided a potted history of them via link.

I am still waiting for proof that the standard M-16 rifle round, the M193 was designed from the outset as a "frangible" round.  All references I have and have found online refer to it as "Full Metal Jacket".  FMJ bullets are not "frangible".

Lets concentrate on that, shall we?

Provide a reference and I'll examine it.   Until you do, all you and Chimp_Logic are doing is bullshitting and engaging in conspiracist speculation which has no basis in fact.

I look forward to seeing it. 

Is that the Lee Bowers who was working in the railway yard control box and who some some 'commotion' behind the fence at the grassy knoll... maybe a puff of smoke...

If not - good for Lee.... one witness has a view.. which is his right to hold.... others disagree.

*chews popcorn

- and a civil tongue will get you a lot further with me, turkey.  Idiotic accusations of bullshitting to cover up your own lack of information don't wash, kid (based on attitude - now you can give us your Rambo rundown)....

I heard the scope on the Mannlicher was badly set up and not even aimed properly.  Just saying....

*chews popcorn and awaits the response from Mr Negatives...

Let's hear it from the Horse's mouth.... not Wikipedia




HMMMM.. sounds remarkably like the neck wound - which entered JFK's back and exited his throat, followed by the clear hit on John Connelly to remove him from the sight line, followed by the head shot very quickly thereafter.

Now - it's possible there were three - but I contend four for one reason - I find it near impossible for the entry wound in JFK's back to correlate with the exit wound in his throat - but I could be wrong. some say that neck wound is an entry wound - but I don't know.  It's also possible Mr Bowers didn't take in the first shot, but did the second and subsequent shots... memory of fast-moving events can be funny.

Just theorising here.... but looking at what is clear evidence in front of your eyes on the second/third shot followed by the final shot.

I'll accept three if the first wound entering as per the photos of autopsy and the throat wound are directly related, with the bullet deviating upwards.

Now way did that shot hit John Connelly, who is clearly hit while turned to the right and backwards towards JFK - cutting out any possibility of a hit from the rear of the car.

As I said at the beginning - single frame it through and you see Connelly's cheeks blow out on impact, while he is so turned - then he falls and JFK is hit in the head.

Hmm - 'flash' on the grassy knoll - motor cycle cop ran up that slope....

Trawl (not troll) through these.. see what you find....

https://www.google.com.au/#psj=1&q=jfk+witnesses+youtube

Well, c'mon, boys!  I don't hear no HATIN'!

You know - that is a good question, but bordering on the paranoid.  Apparently his family was eventually paid a huge sum for the film, but kept the rights or something.

Not sure how it worked out.  Yakov didn't get anything I think - I think he felt it was a duty to hand the film in, and when it didn't fit what the accepted scenario was, the FBI gave it back.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 8:12pm:



I have a bridge for sale.

Would you like to buy it?

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 10:18pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 10:27pm:



Believing Oswald killed Kennedy is like believing AGW is an undeniable fact of nature.

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 10:32pm:




True: AGW is a conspiracy theory.

Glad to see you've woken up.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 8:07pm:


Friend, see my earlier post. The security services were issued frangibles and police were too, from the early 60s - super gel and other brands designed to stop at the target.

Also them Ar-15/M-16 rounds are designed to stop in the victim, and not penetrate. It's really not much bigger than a super 22, but with more punch.

What do y'all think of Donohue/Menningen's theory - ie. an accident on the part of the security detail following from behind? Them angles can't lie, surely, and the witnesses say the final bullet left the front right of his head and the angles indicate it was a shot from down low, not up high.

Chimp_Logic wrote on Oct 27^th, 2013 at 10:41pm:


No.

That's your new theory is it? 

Strange lad.

athos wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 11:51am:



What do you believe happened?

The official story?

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 12:08pm:


Yes I believe Jacob Rubenstein was a courageous hero for shooting a handcuffed Oswald in front of police, lawyer and the media.

I believe in the magic bullet theory

I believe that there were only 3 shots ALL of shich came from Oswald's rifle who was perched in that book building.

I believe that the doctors and coroners reports were not interfered with, and NO evidence including the body of JFK was tampered with.

I believe in US democracy, freedom and the American way

I believe that CO2 is not a greenhouse gas and AGW is just a theory

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 2:03pm:


CHERRY PICKING AGAIN MR GREGGY

Billy Jack wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 11:04am:


There is no brand of ammunition referred to as "super gel" that I can find.  Please provide a reference to back your claim.

Quote:


Considerably more.  As for being designed to "stop in the victim" you will of course be able to provide a reference for that?  I am well aware that in fact M193 rounds routinely over-penetrate, as occurred at Port Arthur.

Quote:


I think it, like all the other conspiracy theories silly and not realistic.  The only valid evidence all points to Oswald being the killer IMO.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 8:50pm:



You've got to be kidding!

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 8:50pm:


Friend, I wrote "Please see my earlier post". If you had taken the time to do that you would see I wrote 'Super Vel". Super Gel in that other post was bad typing.

Them security folks have had frangibles since the early 60s for the very reason that they don't pass through the victim and as far as ordinary combat ranges go - which is not what happened in 63 at Dallas as he was in the following car - the M16 round does not go through the enemy - it is not a battle rifle. It has very low energy compared with the 306 battle rifles like the M14, AR10 or G3 etc.
But none of that actually matters because the security guys were issued with purpose built frangible ammo because THEY DONT WANT IT TO PASS THROUGH AND HIT THE PUBLC! You think they didn't have it?

What is your specific problem with the theory from Menninger and Donohue? Did you actually read their books before you came out with your one line opinion? 

Billy Jack wrote on Oct 28^th, 2013 at 10:31pm:


I expect you to prove your case, not for me to go back and reread your past posts to check your typing.

I have found one online reference to "Super Vel" ammunition being introduced in the 1960s, however, it was brief and in passing and did not specify what calibre they were nor the actual year of introduction, so it is not possible to verify if your claim is realistic.

Quote:


You're American or a gun nut, aren't you?  "Battle Rifle" is an American Gun Nut term.  There is no official military classification as such.  The weapons you have named are Assault Rifles in official military nomenclature.   The only difference between types of Assault Rifles is their calibre, they both serve the same function and have similar characteristics (select fire, magazine fed).

As for the M193 round being intended to not over-penetrate it's intended target that might have been the intention but reality in wound ballistics has shown otherwise, as has experience - the Port Arthur Massacre was a classic case of over-penetration with more casualties than rounds fired, occurring. 

Quote:


If it suggests as you claim that JFK was struck by bullets fired by anybody other than Oswald, I believe they are merely conspiracy theories and so automatically discarded IMO.   Its just fluff trying to find cause when the cause is already known.