Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Indonesia and the next defence white paper (Read 1416 times)
Pantheon
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Woke

Posts: 1256
Gender: male
Indonesia and the next defence white paper
Oct 21st, 2013 at 4:30pm
 
Quote:
The Abbott government has promised to write a new Defence White Paper within 18 months, and one of the key challenges it will face is considering the place of Indonesia in Australian defence thinking. As the fear of a direct Indonesian threat retreats into the past, it is being replaced by a view of Indonesia as a potential ‘buffer’ separating Australia from the vagaries of the East Asian system. But when the new government considers Australia’s defence options in the next century, it’d do well to remember that Indonesia gets a vote in the role it plays in defending Australia.

Historically, Indonesia has comprised an important, though unclear, element in Australia’s strategic environment. When Australia looks at its neighbourhood in isolation, Indonesia’s proximity and strategic potential makes it appear as a liability. But if the lens is widened to encompass the entire Asia-Pacific strategic system, a strong Indonesia looks more like an asset. During the Cold War Australia’s security concerns about Indonesia revolved around threats associated with Konfrontasi, communism and state collapse, with the prospect of a nuclear-armed Sukarno regime menacing briefly in 1965. But as early as the 1970s, Defence was also conducting studies of possible regional contingencies which involved Indonesia as an ally in achieving regional security. So recognition of our mutual strategic interests coexisted with security concerns about Indonesia.

In a recent Security Challenges article Stephan Fruehling argued that the 2013 Defence White Paper is Australia’s first ‘post-Indonesia’ strategic guidance document since the 1950s. By that he means that the document doesn’t even mention the possibility that relations between Australia and Indonesia might worsen, let alone gesture towards the ‘Indonesia threat’ of yore. Instead, it casts a pretty firm vote in favour of the ‘Indonesia as asset’ conception. This shift reflects not only Australia’s growing comfort with Indonesia as a neighbour, but also the prevailing uncertainty of the Asia-Pacific strategic environment and the attendant need for Australia to build partnerships in the region.

But Australians should be careful not to read this increasingly rosy picture of Indonesia’s strategic significance as a linear trend. While a stable Indonesia acts as a buffer regardless of its policy preferences, assisting it to play the role that we may need it to requires policy coordination. An effective joint response to contingencies involving regional defence against a hostile major power, for instance, requires planning premised on a shared view of Asia’s major power politics. Despite the shifts that have taken place in the bilateral relationship, a convergence of strategic perceptions at this level hasn’t happened, and is unlikely to happen in the near future. There are several reasons for this.

While Indonesia has warmed to the US security presence in Asia, in part because it helps to restrain China, it has also been careful to keep its distance from the US out of regard for China. As Indonesian defence thinkers look out at their archipelago from Java, a complex risk environment stares back at them. While a potentially hostile China is an important risk to be mitigated, overtly pushing against China heightens many other serious risks, not the least of which being major power war. Doing so would sacrifice Indonesia’s development goals for little net security gain.

The main thrust of Indonesian statecraft has been to exert diplomatic influence in regional forums to short-circuit adversarial strategic trends and develop mechanisms to moderate conflict. This approach has been sustained through a period when China’s maritime activism reached a crescendo, America was at its most engaged in decades, and Indonesia itself had its most pro-Western President ever. Because it’s in keeping with Indonesia’s non-alignment tradition, this approach has the critical buttress of domestic support. More importantly, it remains Indonesia’s most viable strategy.

The sense of vulnerability that comes from their geographic location makes Indonesians wary of becoming entangled in the strategic calculations of foreign powers. Australia’s appreciation of Indonesia as a ‘buffer’ is a case in point: the difference between ‘buffer’ and ‘battleground’ is one of abstraction. As disastrous as major power confrontation would be for Australia, for Indonesia the fighting would take place on its doorstep, if not in its living room. This means that Australia might more readily take actions which risk escalation, especially if it feels shielded from the worst of the consequences. Deepening defence cooperation with the likes of Australia is not without its risks for Indonesia.

The next defence white paper will surely assign Indonesia an important place. But Australia should consider the possibility that we’ve already seen the full extent of Indonesia’s ‘Westward’ shift. Indonesia remains a country that pursues regional security through diplomatic means, and in this sense remains aloof from the great power game in Asia. By implicitly or explicitly assigning Indonesia a role it’s unwilling to play, we’d be putting Australia’s defence policy on unstable foundations. It’s the job of the next white paper to chart a course that Australia and Indonesia can both stick to if the seas get rough.


Back to top
 

[b][center]Socialism had been tried on every continent on earth. In light of its results, it's time to question the motives of its advocates.
 
IP Logged
 
Pantheon
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Woke

Posts: 1256
Gender: male
Re: Indonesia and the next defence white paper
Reply #1 - Oct 21st, 2013 at 4:31pm
 
By implicitly or explicitly assigning Indonesia a role it’s unwilling to play, we’d be putting Australia’s defence policy on unstable foundations, so what is the solution?
Back to top
 

[b][center]Socialism had been tried on every continent on earth. In light of its results, it's time to question the motives of its advocates.
 
IP Logged
 
BlueJam
New Member
*
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 36
Gender: male
Re: Indonesia and the next defence white paper
Reply #2 - Oct 21st, 2013 at 4:58pm
 
I find the recent moves by Indonesia to establish better relations with India interesting.

As a member of the so called BRIC nations India is my bet over China any day. 

Australia since 1972 has long neglected its relationship with India and I believe it is in the interest of both nations to have much better collaboration of technology beyond the supply of Uranium and other resources.

Off course India still has an long and strong (if not frustrating at times) relationship with Russia particularly with regards to nuclear, submarine and aircraft technologies.

The Bramhos missile is an example!

A good White Paper would see Australia through sensible foreign aid programs reengage with PNG, Indonesia, Malaysia, The Philippines, Samoa, Fiij, Tonga, Timor Leste and the Micronesian states etc to build capabilities and success.

This will work to stop corruption, waste, meet environmental considerations, terrorism and extremism, stop illegal and unchecked exploitation of fish stock by third parties and raise the standard of living in real terms not in handing over cash or just telling them we know better and do as we say as a pseudo big brother white imperialist.

China's foray into the region with the former tracking station in Kirabuti and the riots in The Solomon's with Taiwan and China both playing games is not in our national interest nor in those small regional nations.

War is quoted as 'an extension of politics by another means' - how about we (Australia) play the 'Great Game' much better then we currently  do in such an amateur manner!
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Moderator
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 44333
Re: Indonesia and the next defence white paper
Reply #3 - Oct 23rd, 2013 at 1:17am
 
BlueJam wrote on Oct 21st, 2013 at 4:58pm:
I find the recent moves by Indonesia to establish better relations with India interesting.


It is to each other's mutual benefit, Bluejam.   Both need counters to Chinese expansion.  India also needs an ally to prevent possible Chinese naval encroachment on the Indian Ocean, while Indonesia finds it advantagous to have a major ally in case of Chinese threats in the South China Sea.

What most people forget is that India and China are still officially at war and have been since 1961, each holding large swaths of the other's territory along the Tibetan border.   If that was to ever flare up again, considering the stalemate that exists, it could be feasible to see either side attempting to outflank the other with their newly created naval forces and try a move through the Straits of Malacca.  That would bring Indonesia and Malaysia possibly into the conflict and us as well, through both the Five Power Defence Treaty and our relationship with Indonesia.

Quote:
War is quoted as 'an extension of politics by another means' - how about we (Australia) play the 'Great Game' much better then we currently  do in such an amateur manner!


Perhaps our problem is that we have instead chosen to play the "Great White Power, giver of a little cheap plenty to the primitive natives," game instead?   Our attitudes towards the Oceania nations in particular have invariably been, when we remember them, a bit of "Cargo" and ignore them when we've forgotten them, again.  This goes in cycles and it doesn't matter who is in power, both parties do it.  Which is why of course, that when things blow up, we're invariably caught by surprise and wonder why it's happened.
Back to top
 

It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Old Codger
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 547
Melbourne.
Gender: male
Re: Indonesia and the next defence white paper
Reply #4 - Oct 23rd, 2013 at 4:19am
 
A strictly personal view, but I place more importance on India than Indonesia.

She is further away,  but she is spending a fortune on arms and the means to project them over great distances.   She seems to consider the Indian Ocean as an Indian lake,  and can now send some serious warships to all its boundaries.

I see her population expanding to unmanageable levels in the decades ahead,  and she can only look to the south and  east for 'Lebenstraum'.  North and west do not seem an option for her.

JMO


OC
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Moderator
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 44333
Re: Indonesia and the next defence white paper
Reply #5 - Oct 23rd, 2013 at 9:15pm
 
Indian defence procurement is like everything else in India - rather ramshackle, OC.   It invariably takes decades for them to make up their mind on requirements which are described as "urgent".  They build aircraft that are useless, they part build ships and leave them on the stocks for years before launching them partially completed.  Their military vehicle procurement program leaves a great deal to be desired.  They have, in the past allowed corruption to come into the procurement process.

At the moment, their air force is falling out of the sky because they aren't maintaining the aircraft.  Their navy spends inordinate amounts of time tied up because they can't afford fuel.  About the one service which seems to be surviving relatively well in present times is the Army.
Back to top
 

It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Pantheon
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Woke

Posts: 1256
Gender: male
Re: Indonesia and the next defence white paper
Reply #6 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 12:02am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 23rd, 2013 at 9:15pm:
Indian defence procurement is like everything else in India - rather ramshackle, OC.   It invariably takes decades for them to make up their mind on requirements which are described as "urgent".  They build aircraft that are useless, they part build ships and leave them on the stocks for years before launching them partially completed.  Their military vehicle procurement program leaves a great deal to be desired.  They have, in the past allowed corruption to come into the procurement process.

At the moment, their air force is falling out of the sky because they aren't maintaining the aircraft.  Their navy spends inordinate amounts of time tied up because they can't afford fuel.  About the one service which seems to be surviving relatively well in present times is the Army.


this..
Back to top
 

[b][center]Socialism had been tried on every continent on earth. In light of its results, it's time to question the motives of its advocates.
 
IP Logged
 
Old Codger
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 547
Melbourne.
Gender: male
Re: Indonesia and the next defence white paper
Reply #7 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 6:39am
 
BR,

Thanks for #5, very interesting.  Something you don't get elsewhere. at least I have never come across it.


OC
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Moderator
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 44333
Re: Indonesia and the next defence white paper
Reply #8 - Oct 25th, 2013 at 12:05am
 
OC, I post nothing that isn't in the open domain already.  There are many places you can find out this information if you care to look.  The Indian Defence community is particularly active online.  The big problem as in any such sources is sorting the wheat from the chaff.

The Indian LCA (Light Combat Aircraft) program is a good example of how ramshackle Indian procurement is.  The Arjun MBT project is another.  Then you have the recent launch of India's indigenous aircraft carrier.  It's been sitting on the stocks for about three years, incomplete and has been "launched", incomplete in order to allow the ship builders to use the yard for a commercial project.  As for the Indian Air Force's parlous state, there have been numerous reports about how badly maintained their MiG-21 fleet is (which is their main fighter still) with numerous crashes being reported.
Back to top
 

It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Old Codger
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 547
Melbourne.
Gender: male
Re: Indonesia and the next defence white paper
Reply #9 - Oct 25th, 2013 at 5:31am
 
BR,

Fair enough, I have probably been a bit lazy of recent years.



"numerous reports about how badly maintained their MiG-21"

Not surprised, the MiG 2I is near 50 years old now and due to fall out of the sky.   Glad to know about the Indian Navy and its problems, I hope they have many more.  I still feel uncomfortable about the Indians.


OC
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Moderator
*****
Offline


Representative of me

Posts: 44333
Re: Indonesia and the next defence white paper
Reply #10 - Oct 25th, 2013 at 9:13pm
 
The Indian MiG-21 fleet is made up primarily of later models and is comparatively young, manufacture only ceasing in the early 1990s IIRC.

Their problem is maintenance.  The GFC has affected India more than is generally understood, limiting government income and so there hasn't been sufficient to fund the required maintenance.  Coupled with neglect from the Air Force which has been trying to phase the MiG-21, has resulted in a poor safety record.
Back to top
 

It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print