Pantheon wrote on Oct 18^th, 2013 at 11:52am:


They rarely are, but they are fixed

The F111 had a serious issue with the wings and carry through box, as in they used to crack and snap. The solution was to freeze the aircraft and flex the wings and if they snapped, then they would replace them, not the most ideal fix but, none fell out of the sky 'wingless'.

This is cutting edge technology anyone who demands it be perfect right from the get go, should not have any input into this type of purchase. We were modifying and improving the Pigs right up until we buried them, it is what airforces do and have done for decades.


If you want perfect first up, buy old technology.

I was waiting for someone to start quoting the Airpower Australia site of my old friend Carlo Kopp.   While I have a lot of time for him normally, on this one he's mistaken and contradictory.  He will describe Lockheed Martin as the biggest bunch of crooks over the F-35 but wax lyrical about the same company when discussing the F-22.   He really cannot have his cake and eat it too.   He's fallen into the same trap in believing that the production version of the F-35 will be as fault ridden as the prototypes.   This is foolish.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 18^th, 2013 at 11:38pm:



I remember when technical issues with military aircraft used to be classified, damn the whole aircraft existance was denied as part of its normal evolution.

Now anyone one with an internent link seem to be able to post an opinion no matter how ignorant and present it as a fact. Down side is, that those who believe that sh1t re-present the same drivel ans absolut fact. Yes Im talking about the like of bobby.

Most of the serious technical problems we had with the F111 were never made public, and we just fixed them and contiued to operate that aircaft as per normal.


No need to get all worked up over moronic specualtion, if you don't work on them or fly them, chances are, you are not overflowing with facts. If you are a civilian, even more so.

Pantheon wrote on Oct 19^th, 2013 at 8:44pm:


You've supplied the answer to your own question, Ahovking.  Obviously it was a rhetorical question and requires no further input from me, which I suspect you're really not interested in anyway.  You've made your mind up, as we can see from so many parallel threads on the same topic, all critical of the F-35.  As I've pointed out to Bobby, from what I know and those I know who are intimately involved in the F-35 program, most of the problems in the prototype aircraft have been grossly exaggerated.   There are problems in the management of the program but they have little to do with the physical aspects of the aircraft itself.   

One of the reasons the Dutch have been struggling with the F-35 purchase is that it has become a political football given they are broke and economy in trouble. For example the Prime Minister wanted the Dutch Military to stay the Parliament did not!

Widespread cutbacks of the military has occurred with reductions in troop numbers, sales of tanks and equipment put in storage or scrapped as a cost cutting measure

The Dutch basically went broke with their commitment to Afghanistan and Iraq. For example they held a province of Iraq on their own after the fall of Saddaam.

With a population smaller than Australia's at about almost 17 million people they put in a big effort.

A big part of Australia's relatively small overall commitment was based at Main Dutch base known as Kamp Holland. 

The Dutch who lead the effort in the Uruzgan Province committed the following to Afghanistan:

F-16A/B fighter jets
CH-47D Chinooks
Super Puma Helicopters
AH- 64 Apache Helicopters
P-3 Orion
C-130 Hercules
Leopard 2A4 Tanks
PZH 2000 Self Propelled Howitzers
Infantry, Engineers, Special Forces & Medical
Naval Frigates for Middle East blockade

When they left Kamp Holland the short fall was made up by Australian, USA, Singapore and Slovakian forces who overall combined had  a significantly less sized footprint and capability.

I think the F-35 will be a lot like the F-111 it will get there!

Whilst there is no Cold War threat with the Soviet Bear breathing down our necks there are a number of other issues driving the program

The number of nations committed to the program,
The number of companies across partner nations involved in production of key components

The tired and costly to maintain and reducing capabilities of most Teen series of airframes held onto by so many nations is driving the issue.

I might add that F-35 as an aircraft with the exception of range the current LRIP models already exceeds the capabilities of

Super Hornet,
F-15 SE Silent Eagle
F-16 Block 60
Eurofighter Tranche 3
Gripen
Rafael, Su-35 etc

A lot of info in this referenced doco is old news and has been managed

@ Brian Ross re Air Power I agree with your statements one of their old arguments was that at F-35 could not beat a MiG-29/ MiG – 35 or Su-30 in a Bell or Pugachev’s Cobra manoeuvre. Therefore it was highly vulnerable to aircraft entering service in our region let alone new Chinese or Russian/Indian so called 5th gen aircraft.

The reality is no Battle of Britain dog fights are likely to ever to occur between a F-35 and another fighter aircraft

The point being and missed is that even teen types of aircraft are using beyond visual range systems and missiles.

More and more aircraft are using passive detection technologies such as Infra Red Search and Track System (IRST)  and Litening G4 type pods  to detect and engage aerial targets.

In the case of the F-35 it will see you, shoot you and head back home for breakfast and you know nothing about this until kilos of high explosive and shrapnel destroy you non 5th generation aircraft.

Lockheed Martin and the USAF are keen to tell you that successful developments with the F-35 drive the changes in the F-22A  Raptor.

The Raptor was very much a MOTS aircraft when it came to processing something like a 456K computer which has limited growth.

The F-35 has plugged into COTS like the Super Hornet Block II has done with built in redundancies e.g. AP-79 Radar has multiple redundancies so it won’t go down when mission critical (up to four cards from memory).

Upgrades are pretty easy to install relating to processing capacity and systems upgrades.

Hi OC

the Bell and Cobra are more about Hun in the Sun guns blazing fighting the old style knife fight that two modern fighter jets aren't going to get into.

It is awesome to watch but its more an air show crowd pleaser and salesman line pitch

With the Bell and Cobra you pull a swift move in your Su 27 and the bad guy over shoots or bleeds that much energy he almost stalls then you hit them with your guns

As I mentioned earlier modern jet fighting is BVR and short range missiles - guns in jets are going to be used against ground targets, tethered aerostats, helicopters and slow prop driven fixed winged aircraft etc