Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 19^th, 2013 at 8:23am:


Actually all were considered threats to our interests, Herbie.  Malaya because of the fear of Communist expansion and of course we had made a commitment to the Imperial Far East Strategic Reserve which was stationed in Malaya.  Borneo, you have forgotten was part of Konfrontasi and we had a commitment under the Five Power Defence Agreement to protect Malaysia.   We also shared a common land border at the time with Indonesia and were concerned about the possibility of Indonesian infiltration across it, in PNG.   East Timor is only 200 Nautical Miles from Darwin.  We had a sentimental attachment to that nation from joint interests and conflict in WWII.  Failure to intervene would have allow Indonesian violence to continue and intensify, which would have strangled the East Timorese liberation movement in it's cradle, with the possibility of creating a flood of refugees arriving on our shores fleeing political persecution there.  So, despite your opinion, it is obvious they definitely had something to do with us.

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Nations do not put such matters of foreign policy to popular votes, Herbie.  If nothing else, often the need for speedy decision making and physical movement of forces to these trouble spots preclude it, if nothing else.  We are signatories of the San Francisco Treaty which created the UN (in fact we were one of the key framers of it).  We are committed to the principles and activities of Collective Defence, Herbie.  We could not shirk such matters lightly and not expect repercussions.

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Except in the matter of defence, Herbie.  You do understand what the UN was created for, originally?   

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You mean like the Jews or even the Masons?  Gasp!  Who would have believed it, Herbie?

The other matters you've mentioned have little to do with the UN but are matters of domestic policies, created by the Australian Government for the betterment of the Australian Nation.  Policies which I note, you have been a beneficiary of, Herbie.  Without our liberal, generous Immigration policies, you'd have spent your life back home in the UK...   

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And there is a problem with that, how, exactly, Herbie?   You, yourself admit that this what we are expected to pay to ensure our protection from possible threat.   It is a cheap price to pay.  We have had more casualties in Afghanistan from sporting injuries than what the Taliban have managed to do.  Our military forces lose more men and women to motor vehicle accidents than we've lost in Afghanistan.

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You mean the same intelligence services that actually found him in the end, Herbie?

I've pointed out why the US fumbled the ball over bin Laden and Afghanistan.  You'll get no argument from me about that.   If they had concentrated their effort there, instead of diverting it to needlessly attack Saddam Hussein, "'cause he tried to kill my daddy!"  The affair may well have been over and done with by now.   However, the US is not the one solely responsible, Herbie.  NATO must bear some of the blame as well.

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They generally have been, Herbie.  Only in WWII and Vietnam have we sent conscripted troops overseas.  The first was because of perceived existential threat, the second because of lack of volunteers in a period of full employment.   The first united the nation, the second divided it, so it's really a bit of a mixed bag on which to make a judgement.   

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 19^th, 2013 at 11:59am:


Or we could just have a stock pile of nuclear weapons as a deterrent and employ a couple dudes to turn a key if need be.

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 19^th, 2013 at 11:59am:



BigOl is an old boozer from the RSL.

Don't listen to anything he says. 

Lucas The Innkeeper wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 1:55am:


And pray tell, where would we get such nuclear weapons?  They don't get put on sale, you realise?   We would have to develop our own and that would mean we would be required to abrogate several major international treaties which we are a party to, which would do what to our stance on trying to reduce threats to Australia, particularly from our immediate region?

Further, as we now lack the required number of nuclear engineers to create a nuclear programme we would need to train and graduate them, which would require a minimum of 10-15 years.  We would also need to create a nuclear industry, which would require a further 10-15 years (there could be some overlap there, I admit).  This would include nuclear enrichment and as we have seen with Iran and before that, the DPRK, Pakistan and even South Africa, the world takes unkindly to nations trying to become new members of the Nuclear Club.

Then we would need to develop a means of delivering them.  As you've alluding to the use of Ballistic Missiles with your command about "turning keys" we'd need to develop a whole Ballistic Missile programme as well, as Ballistic Missile technology is not available for purchase and the world takes a very dim view of those nations which attempt to do so (and the nations that sell it) as the DPRK and Iran have discovered.

So, we would need to develop several new, major industrial bases to create these nuclear weapons.  This in turn would skew our national and defence budgets considerably, make us an outlaw Pariah State and could provoke an arms race in our region.   The costs IMHO outweigh any benefit in acquiring a weapon which could really and morally only be used as those of last resort.

Despite what you believe, "simply turning a key" is not what is required to create and maintain nuclear weapons and their delivery systems.  This has been explained here already, if you had bothered to do a search.   

We could store the bombs in Lygon Street,  Carlton!


OC

Bobby. wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 8:59am:



It is so sad to see you resort to pathetic ad hominum attacks. You are a pathetic little man, best you post on the secret women's business and discuss your brilliant peace plan with them. 

Lucas The Innkeeper wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 1:18pm:


Well, I'll just leave you to your pointless ad hominem then, shall I?   

The bloke in the pic above is possibly an ex 19 year old vet from the Kokoda Track. Or maybe Milne Bay or even Tobruk.

My FiL had his 37th birthday in Tobruk!

Many on this forum would have no idea what that means.


OC