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spineless apologetics (Read 191663 times)
Yadda
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #30 - Sep 18th, 2013 at 11:23am
 
Karnal wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 3:25am:
Thanks for the insight, Y. I guess I’m just angry at myself. I wish I could get out of this bog and join in the fun.

You shouldn’t rub it in like that, you know. We know God sent you as a prophet, Y, but it’s bad form to let on.

Let’s just keep that one between you and I.




You are mistaken, K.

I am a fool.

Way out-there, on the periphery, ....with all of the other fools.


Dictionary;
periphery = =
1 the outer limits or edge of an area or object.
2 a marginal or secondary position, part, or aspect.







It is you K, who are among the worthy soothsayers, and the 'prophets'.

Not me.



Micah 3:5
Thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that make my people err, that bite with their teeth, and cry, Peace;....


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #31 - Sep 18th, 2013 at 12:14pm
 
Yadda wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 11:23am:
Karnal wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 3:25am:
Thanks for the insight, Y. I guess I’m just angry at myself. I wish I could get out of this bog and join in the fun.

You shouldn’t rub it in like that, you know. We know God sent you as a prophet, Y, but it’s bad form to let on.

Let’s just keep that one between you and I.




You are mistaken, K.

I am a fool.



Really?  I would never have guessed!!!!!   Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
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Karnal
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #32 - Sep 18th, 2013 at 4:47pm
 
Yadda wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 11:23am:
Karnal wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 3:25am:
Thanks for the insight, Y. I guess I’m just angry at myself. I wish I could get out of this bog and join in the fun.

You shouldn’t rub it in like that, you know. We know God sent you as a prophet, Y, but it’s bad form to let on.

Let’s just keep that one between you and I.




You are mistaken, K.

I am a fool.

Way out-there, on the periphery, ....with all of the other fools.


Dictionary;
periphery = =
1 the outer limits or edge of an area or object.
2 a marginal or secondary position, part, or aspect.




Not at all, Y. I won’t have a word of it. You’re a gastronome.

Dictionary:
gas.tro.nome
noun
a connoisseur of good food; gourmet; epicure.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them, Y.

Galations 5:22-23
But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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« Last Edit: Sep 18th, 2013 at 4:54pm by Karnal »  
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #33 - Sep 18th, 2013 at 9:39pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 17th, 2013 at 12:37pm:
Even the Muslims you are attempting to apologise for and defend from "unfair" criticism think it is spineless Brian.


Really?  So what?  I do it because I feel I should, not because I expect thanks or gratitude, FD.  If making you remember such concepts as fairness and justice annoys and embarrasses you, that's fine by me.   Grin
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Brian Ross
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #34 - Sep 18th, 2013 at 9:42pm
 
Yadda wrote on Sep 17th, 2013 at 2:37am:

There is no respect of a 'golden rule', by ISLAM.


Nor in Christianity if your posts are anything to go by, Yadda.   Roll Eyes

Galatians 5:22, well chosen Karnal.  Pity Yadda doesn't understand it.   Roll Eyes


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freediver
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #35 - Sep 18th, 2013 at 9:47pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 9:39pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 17th, 2013 at 12:37pm:
Even the Muslims you are attempting to apologise for and defend from "unfair" criticism think it is spineless Brian.


Really?  So what?  I do it because I feel I should, not because I expect thanks or gratitude, FD.  If making you remember such concepts as fairness and justice annoys and embarrasses you, that's fine by me.   Grin


But what right do you have to criticise others?
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #36 - Sep 18th, 2013 at 11:30pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 9:47pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 9:39pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 17th, 2013 at 12:37pm:
Even the Muslims you are attempting to apologise for and defend from "unfair" criticism think it is spineless Brian.


Really?  So what?  I do it because I feel I should, not because I expect thanks or gratitude, FD.  If making you remember such concepts as fairness and justice annoys and embarrasses you, that's fine by me.   Grin


But what right do you have to criticise others?


The same right you apparently reserve to yourself, FD.

You want respect, then earn it.  You're doing a dismal job of it at the moment.   Roll Eyes
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Yadda
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #37 - Sep 19th, 2013 at 2:26am
 
Karnal wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 4:47pm:

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them, Y.

Galations 5:22-23
But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.




It is good to see you quoting your bible, K.

Did you take in, all of Galatians 5 ?




Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23  Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24  And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.




Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5:13
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14  For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20  Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


Quote:

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."









...
Moslems do not come to Australia, to be equal with Australians [which is what Australian society freely offers, to all immigrants coming to Australia]...
...to share our freedoms and our system of justice, and to share our peaceful society.
Oh no!
Moslems come to Australia, for one purpose only.
To be moslems - in a non-moslem land.
To bring and to establish the authority of ISLAM in a new land, and by 'persuasion' [moslem community deceit] [or by force and terror] to bring Australians into bondage, under ISLAM, UNDER MOSLEM RULE.





e.g.
Quote:

"[a respected moslem community spokesman has] called on Australian Muslims to spurn secular democracy and Western notions of moderate Islam...
...[moslems in Australia were told] that democracy is "haram" (forbidden) for Muslims, whose political engagement should be be based purely on Islamic law.
"We must adhere to Islam and Islam alone,"
Mr Hanif [said]"



http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/australia-members-of-hizb-ut-tahrir-say-countr...



e.g.
Quote:
Pakistani cleric: 'We want Islamic law for all Pakistan and then the world. We would like to do this by preaching. But if not then we would use force.'

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/12/pakistani-cleric-we-want-islamic-law-for-all-p...



+++




There is no such creature, as a 'moderate' moslem, or, a moslem 'pluralist'.

A person who declares themself to be, a moslem, is a moslem.

A person who declares themself to be, a moslem, is person who agrees to be 'BOUND' IN SUBMISSION, by the religious laws and by the religious tenets of ISLAM.

Anything less, makes a person an infidel [i.e. a person worthy of moslem enmity and hatred].





"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98


"'Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man [Muhammad]?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'"
Ishaq:204


"Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders."
Ishaq:231







Dictionary;
ummah = = the whole community of Muslims bound together by ties of religion.

Dictionary;
Islam = = the religion of the Muslims, a monotheistic faith regarded as revealed through Muhammad as the Prophet of Allah.

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.




+++



And there i go again, K.

Re-stating the very same message, again, and again;

That ISLAM is a philosophy, which seeks to establish its own [political, secular] supremacy, through the mechanisms of deceit, intimidation and extreme violence.

And yet, you seek to castigate me, for speaking that truth.



Question, K.

Why are you a spineless apologist, for deceitful and violent political supremacists [who refer to themselves as moslems] ?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #38 - Sep 19th, 2013 at 2:54am
 
Yadda wrote on Sep 19th, 2013 at 2:26am:

And there i go again, K.

Re-stating the very same message, again, and again;

That ISLAM is a philosophy, which seeks to establish its own [political, secular] supremacy, through the mechanisms of deceit, intimidation and extreme violence.

And yet, you seek to castigate me, for speaking that truth.



Question, K.

Why are you a spineless apologist, for deceitful and violent political supremacists [who refer to themselves as moslems] ?




It isn't really a question which is difficult to answer.

It is because you consider yourself to be part of the mainstream of society, and normal.

[While persons like myself are portrayed as 'extreme', and 'intolerant' - for pointing out the obvious.]






http://compelled-to-accept.tumblr.com/post/38611192864/most-profound-calvin-and-...
Quote:

Calvin: Today at school, I tried to decide whether to cheat on my test or not. I
wondered, is it better to do the right thing and fail…or is it better to do the wrong thing and succeed? On the one hand, undeserved success gives no satisfaction…but on the other hand, well-deserved failure gives no satisfaction either. Of course, most everybody cheats some time or other. People always bend the rules if they think they can get away with it. Then again, that doesn’t justify my cheating. Then I thought, look, cheating on one little test isn’t such a big deal. It doesn’t hurt anyone. But then I wondered if I was just rationalizing my unwillingness to accept the consequence of not studying. Still, in the real world, people care about success, not principles. Then again, maybe that’s why the world is such a mess. What a dilemma!

Hobbes: So what did you decide?

Calvin: Nothing. I ran out of time and I had to turn in a blank paper.

Hobbes: Anyway, simply acknowledging the issue is a moral victory.

Calvin: Well, it just seemed wrong to cheat on an ethics test.







Ethics test ?

What ethics test is that, K ????

Hmmmm ?




Q.

Are we human beings, K ?

Or are we merely, beasts, with beastly instincts ?





Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.






Quote:

....here is a concept, a truth, which i believe in;
What we believe, determines how we will act [choose].




Isaiah 59:4
None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Karnal
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #39 - Sep 19th, 2013 at 3:29am
 
Bon apetite!

Do you want to say grace, Y, or... ?
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Yadda
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #40 - Sep 19th, 2013 at 9:31am
 
Karnal wrote on Sep 19th, 2013 at 3:29am:

Bon apetite!

Do you want to say grace, Y, or... ?





Once again K, you FAIL [ethically];

A typical post by Karnal, confirming once again, that Karnal is not willing to reveal his real opinions in this forum, on any serious issue.

Once again, refusing to simply acknowledge, what is true








+++


No person who is prepared to carelessly abandon truth [who repeatedly refuses to acknowledge what is true], can claim to be an ethical person, imo.

Q.
Is any moslem, an ethical person ?

Can any moslem ["a follower of Islam"], claim to embrace an ethical life ?



A.
EXAMINE THE EVIDENCE;


Moslems will blatantly, and intentionally, and deceitfully misrepresent ISLAM to a non-moslems.

All moslems barefacedly lie, when they communicate with non-believers - so as to promote ISLAM's [and their own] interests.



e.g.

Taqiyya

Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”

Google;
"Speaking is a means to achieve objectives"
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm





Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit



Google;
we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"



How Taqiyya Alters Islams Rules of War

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-wari+++


AND IN CONTRAST....


IMAGE....
...
Ahmed Akkari - gets an ethical 'pass', imo

http://www.d-intl.com/2013/08/23/the-imam-who-defected-extremists-run-all-danish...




Quote:

"The truth is that there is not a single mosque or Muslim organization in Denmark that is not run by Islamists. As soon as you enter the house of the believers, you are met with Islamism whether you want it or not. As soon as you become a devoted Muslim, you are infected by extremism."



Ahmed Akkari


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #41 - Sep 19th, 2013 at 9:42am
 
K,

IMO, you remain a spineless apologist for an evil philosophy and for an evil community of people.







Dictionary;
ummah = = the whole community of Muslims bound together by ties of religion.

Dictionary;
Islam = = the religion of the Muslims, a monotheistic faith regarded as revealed through Muhammad as the Prophet of Allah.

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31
 
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freediver
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #42 - Sep 19th, 2013 at 12:41pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 11:30pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 9:47pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 9:39pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 17th, 2013 at 12:37pm:
Even the Muslims you are attempting to apologise for and defend from "unfair" criticism think it is spineless Brian.


Really?  So what?  I do it because I feel I should, not because I expect thanks or gratitude, FD.  If making you remember such concepts as fairness and justice annoys and embarrasses you, that's fine by me.   Grin


But what right do you have to criticise others?


The same right you apparently reserve to yourself, FD.

You want respect, then earn it.  You're doing a dismal job of it at the moment.   Roll Eyes


Or course I reserve the right for myself. You are the one trying to deny yourself rights. Very selectively of course. It sounds more like a particularly spineless excuse for bias and bigotry.

It is especially strange for someone who owns their own politics forum to attempt to undermine freedom of speech in such a fundamental way.
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #43 - Sep 19th, 2013 at 1:24pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 19th, 2013 at 12:41pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 11:30pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 9:47pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 18th, 2013 at 9:39pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 17th, 2013 at 12:37pm:
Even the Muslims you are attempting to apologise for and defend from "unfair" criticism think it is spineless Brian.


Really?  So what?  I do it because I feel I should, not because I expect thanks or gratitude, FD.  If making you remember such concepts as fairness and justice annoys and embarrasses you, that's fine by me.   Grin


But what right do you have to criticise others?


The same right you apparently reserve to yourself, FD.

You want respect, then earn it.  You're doing a dismal job of it at the moment.   Roll Eyes


Or course I reserve the right for myself. You are the one trying to deny yourself rights. Very selectively of course. It sounds more like a particularly spineless excuse for bias and bigotry.


Whereas you proudly proclaim yours' from the rooftops?  Grin Grin

Quote:
It is especially strange for someone who owns their own politics forum to attempt to undermine freedom of speech in such a fundamental way.


Has he?  How?  All he's asked is for you to give people a fair go.  You've openly said you won't.   So, how has he undermined your freedom of speech, exactly?  Your thought processes are convoluted at the best of times mate.  Perhaps we need a point diagram with labels?   Grin Grin Grin
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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wally1
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #44 - Sep 19th, 2013 at 3:42pm
 
Yadda wrote on Sep 19th, 2013 at 9:42am:
K,

IMO, you remain a spineless apologist for an evil philosophy and for an evil community of people.







Dictionary;
ummah = = the whole community of Muslims bound together by ties of religion.

Dictionary;
Islam = = the religion of the Muslims, a monotheistic faith regarded as revealed through Muhammad as the Prophet of Allah.

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.




Cant you also do some research and explain what Allah means in Arabic?

You seem to find it hard to know the dictionary meaning of allah but quick to point out isalmic vocabulary.
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