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spineless apologetics (Read 337141 times)
polite_gandalf
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2325 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 9:59am
 
freediver wrote on Feb 21st, 2018 at 7:09pm:
Gandalf, what race are you referring to here?


I don't refer to anyone as a "race", I don't believe in the term.

You, on the other hand, make everything about races and racism - sorry wacism.

Since you insisted on making that debate all about race and wacism, I tried to put it in terms I thought you might understand. Hence "call it a 'race' if you like", which I think was in reference to Europeans. Presumably you believe 'Europeans' are a race - no? I don't. Personally I find the notion laughable. But its really irrelevant to the central point we were arguing. Even if you insist Europeans are a "race" (whatever that means), how is it racist to point out that "Europeans" - not the collective "race" of Europeans, but a collection of individuals who belonged to that race - invaded the New World and spread diseases that they brought with them? It obviously isn't. You are once again being hysterical.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22nd, 2017 at 1:33pm:
In what sense are these diseases 'European'?


In the sense that they came from Europe.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Mattyfisk
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2326 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 11:53am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 9:59am:
freediver wrote on Feb 21st, 2018 at 7:09pm:
Gandalf, what race are you referring to here?


I don't refer to anyone as a "race", I don't believe in the term.

You, on the other hand, make everything about races and racism - sorry wacism.

Since you insisted on making that debate all about race and wacism, I tried to put it in terms I thought you might understand. Hence "call it a 'race' if you like", which I think was in reference to Europeans. Presumably you believe 'Europeans' are a race - no? I don't. Personally I find the notion laughable. But its really irrelevant to the central point we were arguing. Even if you insist Europeans are a "race" (whatever that means), how is it racist to point out that "Europeans" - not the collective "race" of Europeans, but a collection of individuals who belonged to that race - invaded the New World and spread diseases that they brought with them? It obviously isn't. You are once again being hysterical.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22nd, 2017 at 1:33pm:
In what sense are these diseases 'European'?


In the sense that they came from Europe.


Now now, that's racist.
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freediver
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2327 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 12:25pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 9:59am:
freediver wrote on Feb 21st, 2018 at 7:09pm:
Gandalf, what race are you referring to here?


I don't refer to anyone as a "race", I don't believe in the term.

You, on the other hand, make everything about races and racism - sorry wacism.

Since you insisted on making that debate all about race and wacism, I tried to put it in terms I thought you might understand. Hence "call it a 'race' if you like", which I think was in reference to Europeans. Presumably you believe 'Europeans' are a race - no? I don't. Personally I find the notion laughable. But its really irrelevant to the central point we were arguing. Even if you insist Europeans are a "race" (whatever that means), how is it racist to point out that "Europeans" - not the collective "race" of Europeans, but a collection of individuals who belonged to that race - invaded the New World and spread diseases that they brought with them? It obviously isn't. You are once again being hysterical.

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22nd, 2017 at 1:33pm:
In what sense are these diseases 'European'?


In the sense that they came from Europe.


Why would you suggest I can call Europeans a race for the purpose of blaming them for 'European' diseases if you were not referring to Europeans in general? If you were specifically not referring to the race?

How do you know the diseases came from Europe? Also, can you give some examples of Arab diseases that you blame Arabs for?

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 22nd, 2017 at 1:33pm:
My theory is that when a group of people (you can call them a 'race' if you like) invade a defenseless nation of people in order to rape and pillage its natural resources, and enslave the population, they are to "blame" for any diseases that they bring and spread (deliberately or not) amongst the natives. 
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« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2018 at 12:31pm by freediver »  

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Mattyfisk
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2328 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 12:53pm
 
Good point, FD.

G, how do you know the smallpox virus that killed off the Eora Boongs came from Europe?

How do you know it didn't come from Islam?
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Brian Ross
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2329 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:07pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 12:53pm:
Good point, FD.

G, how do you know the smallpox virus that killed off the Eora Boongs came from Europe?

How do you know it didn't come from Islam?


'cause it moved northwards from Sydney Cove, rather than southwards from the Top End...   Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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polite_gandalf
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2330 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:13pm
 
freediver wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 12:25pm:
Why would you suggest I can call Europeans a race for the purpose of blaming them for 'European' diseases if you were not referring to Europeans in general?


Because you asked me what my theory on blaming "racial groups" on diseases was. You were literally the first person in that discussion to bring up race out of nowhere. I then answered by referring to a "group" of people, and said you are free to call them a "race" - not that I believed they definitely are a race.

So quick question for you FD - do you agree a "group" of people went a raping and pillaging and spreading diseases in the new world during the colonial period - and do you agree that "group" were from "Europe"? If so, is it ok to call them "Europeans" without being a ghastly racist - sorry wacist?

freediver wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 12:25pm:
How do you know the diseases came from Europe?


facepalm

freediver wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 12:25pm:
Also, can you give some examples of Arab diseases that you blame Arabs for?


Oh thats easy FD - Islam - de ding ching!

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2331 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:14pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 12:53pm:
Good point, FD.

G, how do you know the smallpox virus that killed off the Eora Boongs came from Europe?

How do you know it didn't come from Islam?


Thats the response that idiotic question deserves.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Mattyfisk
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2332 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:16pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:07pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 12:53pm:
Good point, FD.

G, how do you know the smallpox virus that killed off the Eora Boongs came from Europe?

How do you know it didn't come from Islam?


'cause it moved northwards from Sydney Cove, rather than southwards from the Top End...   Roll Eyes


Yes, but couldn't one of the Muselmen have stowed away on the First Fleet, got to Sydney and released his sinister virus as a form of Mohammedan terrorist genocide?

We do have a precedent, you know. We have Moh's Mindless Collective of treacherous Jews - no individuality whatsoever, so unfair. 

G told us that one.
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Mattyfisk
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2333 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:18pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:13pm:
freediver wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 12:25pm:
Also, can you give some examples of Arab diseases that you blame Arabs for?


Oh thats easy FD - Islam - de ding ching!



He admits it, FD.
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Brian Ross
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2334 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:45pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:16pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:07pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 12:53pm:
Good point, FD.

G, how do you know the smallpox virus that killed off the Eora Boongs came from Europe?

How do you know it didn't come from Islam?


'cause it moved northwards from Sydney Cove, rather than southwards from the Top End...   Roll Eyes


Yes, but couldn't one of the Muselmen have stowed away on the First Fleet, got to Sydney and released his sinister virus as a form of Mohammedan terrorist genocide?


The incubation period for Smallpox is 7-17 days from infection.  The First Fleet's last port of call was Cape Town, in South Africa.  The journey time under sale from Cape Town was more than six weeks, Karnal.  There were no reports of anybody onboard suffering from Smallpox because all had been vaccinated against the disease in the UK.  No one was picked up in Cape Town, as far as I can tell.   So, no body, Muslim or otherwise were suffering from Smallpox when the First Fleet arrived.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Mattyfisk
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2335 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 4:06pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:45pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:16pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:07pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 12:53pm:
Good point, FD.

G, how do you know the smallpox virus that killed off the Eora Boongs came from Europe?

How do you know it didn't come from Islam?


'cause it moved northwards from Sydney Cove, rather than southwards from the Top End...   Roll Eyes


Yes, but couldn't one of the Muselmen have stowed away on the First Fleet, got to Sydney and released his sinister virus as a form of Mohammedan terrorist genocide?


The incubation period for Smallpox is 7-17 days from infection.  The First Fleet's last port of call was Cape Town, in South Africa.  The journey time under sale from Cape Town was more than six weeks, Karnal.  There were no reports of anybody onboard suffering from Smallpox because all had been vaccinated against the disease in the UK.  No one was picked up in Cape Town, as far as I can tell.   So, no body, Muslim or otherwise were suffering from Smallpox when the First Fleet arrived.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Of course there were no reports. The Muselman was hiding in one of the lifeboats.

Don't try and fool us with vaccines again, Brian. You know they didn't have vaccines in 1787. The European race invented vaccines later, in order to save the tinted races.
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Brian Ross
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2336 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 4:24pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 4:06pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:45pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:16pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:07pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 12:53pm:
Good point, FD.

G, how do you know the smallpox virus that killed off the Eora Boongs came from Europe?

How do you know it didn't come from Islam?


'cause it moved northwards from Sydney Cove, rather than southwards from the Top End...   Roll Eyes


Yes, but couldn't one of the Muselmen have stowed away on the First Fleet, got to Sydney and released his sinister virus as a form of Mohammedan terrorist genocide?


The incubation period for Smallpox is 7-17 days from infection.  The First Fleet's last port of call was Cape Town, in South Africa.  The journey time under sale from Cape Town was more than six weeks, Karnal.  There were no reports of anybody onboard suffering from Smallpox because all had been vaccinated against the disease in the UK.  No one was picked up in Cape Town, as far as I can tell.   So, no body, Muslim or otherwise were suffering from Smallpox when the First Fleet arrived.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Of course there were no reports. The Muselman was hiding in one of the lifeboats.


And living off, what?

Quote:
Don't try and fool us with vaccines again, Brian. You know they didn't have vaccines in 1787. The European race invented vaccines later, in order to save the tinted races.


Quote:
The smallpox vaccine was invented in 1796 by the British physician Edward Jenner and although at least six people had used the same principles years earlier he was the first to publish evidence that it was effective and to provide advice on its production.

[Source]

Quote:
Two reports on the Chinese practice of inoculation were received by the Royal Society in London in 1700; one by Dr. Martin Lister who received a report by an employee of the East India Company stationed in China and another by Clopton Havers.[31] According to Voltaire (1742), the Turks derived their use of inoculation to neighbouring Circassia. Voltaire does not speculate on where the Circassians derived their technique from, though he reports that the Chinese have practiced it "these hundred years".[32] The Greek physicians Emmanuel Timonis (1669–1720) from the island of Chios and Jacob Pylarinos (1659–1718) from Cephalonia practised smallpox inoculation at Constantinople in the beginning of 18th century[33] and published their work in Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society in 1714.[34][35] This kind of inoculation and other forms of variolation were introduced into England by Lady Montagu, a famous English letter-writer and wife of the English ambassador at Istanbul between 1716 and 1718, who almost died from smallpox as a young adult and was physically scarred from it. Inoculation was adopted both in England and in America nearly half a century before Jenner's famous smallpox vaccine of 1796

[Source]

So, inoculation was in use in the UK well before Jenner writing about it.   Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
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Mattyfisk
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2337 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 4:37pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 4:24pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 4:06pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:45pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:16pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:07pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 12:53pm:
Good point, FD.

G, how do you know the smallpox virus that killed off the Eora Boongs came from Europe?

How do you know it didn't come from Islam?


'cause it moved northwards from Sydney Cove, rather than southwards from the Top End...   Roll Eyes


Yes, but couldn't one of the Muselmen have stowed away on the First Fleet, got to Sydney and released his sinister virus as a form of Mohammedan terrorist genocide?


The incubation period for Smallpox is 7-17 days from infection.  The First Fleet's last port of call was Cape Town, in South Africa.  The journey time under sale from Cape Town was more than six weeks, Karnal.  There were no reports of anybody onboard suffering from Smallpox because all had been vaccinated against the disease in the UK.  No one was picked up in Cape Town, as far as I can tell.   So, no body, Muslim or otherwise were suffering from Smallpox when the First Fleet arrived.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Of course there were no reports. The Muselman was hiding in one of the lifeboats.


And living off, what?

Quote:
Don't try and fool us with vaccines again, Brian. You know they didn't have vaccines in 1787. The European race invented vaccines later, in order to save the tinted races.


Quote:
The smallpox vaccine was invented in 1796 by the British physician Edward Jenner and although at least six people had used the same principles years earlier he was the first to publish evidence that it was effective and to provide advice on its production.

[Source]

Quote:
Two reports on the Chinese practice of inoculation were received by the Royal Society in London in 1700; one by Dr. Martin Lister who received a report by an employee of the East India Company stationed in China and another by Clopton Havers.[31] According to Voltaire (1742), the Turks derived their use of inoculation to neighbouring Circassia. Voltaire does not speculate on where the Circassians derived their technique from, though he reports that the Chinese have practiced it "these hundred years".[32] The Greek physicians Emmanuel Timonis (1669–1720) from the island of Chios and Jacob Pylarinos (1659–1718) from Cephalonia practised smallpox inoculation at Constantinople in the beginning of 18th century[33] and published their work in Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society in 1714.[34][35] This kind of inoculation and other forms of variolation were introduced into England by Lady Montagu, a famous English letter-writer and wife of the English ambassador at Istanbul between 1716 and 1718, who almost died from smallpox as a young adult and was physically scarred from it. Inoculation was adopted both in England and in America nearly half a century before Jenner's famous smallpox vaccine of 1796

[Source]

So, inoculation was in use in the UK well before Jenner writing about it.   Roll Eyes


Then how do you explain the Boongs catching a Muslim disease? Tell me that.
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Brian Ross
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2338 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 5:19pm
 
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 4:37pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 4:24pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 4:06pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:45pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:16pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 3:07pm:
Mattyfisk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 12:53pm:
Good point, FD.

G, how do you know the smallpox virus that killed off the Eora Boongs came from Europe?

How do you know it didn't come from Islam?


'cause it moved northwards from Sydney Cove, rather than southwards from the Top End...   Roll Eyes


Yes, but couldn't one of the Muselmen have stowed away on the First Fleet, got to Sydney and released his sinister virus as a form of Mohammedan terrorist genocide?


The incubation period for Smallpox is 7-17 days from infection.  The First Fleet's last port of call was Cape Town, in South Africa.  The journey time under sale from Cape Town was more than six weeks, Karnal.  There were no reports of anybody onboard suffering from Smallpox because all had been vaccinated against the disease in the UK.  No one was picked up in Cape Town, as far as I can tell.   So, no body, Muslim or otherwise were suffering from Smallpox when the First Fleet arrived.    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Of course there were no reports. The Muselman was hiding in one of the lifeboats.


And living off, what?

Quote:
Don't try and fool us with vaccines again, Brian. You know they didn't have vaccines in 1787. The European race invented vaccines later, in order to save the tinted races.


Quote:
The smallpox vaccine was invented in 1796 by the British physician Edward Jenner and although at least six people had used the same principles years earlier he was the first to publish evidence that it was effective and to provide advice on its production.

[Source]

Quote:
Two reports on the Chinese practice of inoculation were received by the Royal Society in London in 1700; one by Dr. Martin Lister who received a report by an employee of the East India Company stationed in China and another by Clopton Havers.[31] According to Voltaire (1742), the Turks derived their use of inoculation to neighbouring Circassia. Voltaire does not speculate on where the Circassians derived their technique from, though he reports that the Chinese have practiced it "these hundred years".[32] The Greek physicians Emmanuel Timonis (1669–1720) from the island of Chios and Jacob Pylarinos (1659–1718) from Cephalonia practised smallpox inoculation at Constantinople in the beginning of 18th century[33] and published their work in Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society in 1714.[34][35] This kind of inoculation and other forms of variolation were introduced into England by Lady Montagu, a famous English letter-writer and wife of the English ambassador at Istanbul between 1716 and 1718, who almost died from smallpox as a young adult and was physically scarred from it. Inoculation was adopted both in England and in America nearly half a century before Jenner's famous smallpox vaccine of 1796

[Source]

So, inoculation was in use in the UK well before Jenner writing about it.   Roll Eyes


Then how do you explain the Boongs catching a Muslim disease? Tell me that.


Variola.   The dried scabs of a Smallpox sufferer.  The First Fleet carried a supply of them.  This remained viable long after they had been removed from the sufferer.   It was not Muslims which brought it to Australia but the First Fleeters.    Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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freediver
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #2339 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 10:31pm
 
Quote:
Because you asked me what my theory on blaming "racial groups" on diseases was. You were literally the first person in that discussion to bring up race out of nowhere.


You said you blamed Europeans for European diseases and Arabs for Arab diseases. That you deny the existence of races does not mean you were not the first to mention them.

Quote:
I then answered by referring to a "group" of people, and said you are free to call them a "race" - not that I believed they definitely are a race.


Why would you do this Gandalf? Do you often respond to accusations of racism by agreeing that you are blaming races for diseases?

Quote:
So quick question for you FD - do you agree a "group" of people went a raping and pillaging and spreading diseases in the new world during the colonial period - and do you agree that "group" were from "Europe"? If so, is it ok to call them "Europeans" without being a ghastly racist - sorry wacist?


You said you blame Europeans for European diseases, Arabs for Arab diseases etc, and you even suggested I can describe the groups you hold responsible for this diseases as races. This is the first I have seen you backpedal.

How do you know the diseases came from Europe?

Can you give some examples of Arab diseases that you blame Arabs for?
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