freediver wrote on Sep 15
th, 2013 at 11:58am:
Quote:Comparing apples and oranges? A religion versus ideologies?
So a religion is not an ideology?
It isn't. Religions aren't secular, ideologies are, FD.
Quote:If Nazis decided Hitler was God's messenger, would you suddenly be obligued to defend them from "unfair" criticism?
Nope. I wouldn't piss on Herr Hitler if he was on fire, FD.
Again, comparing apples and oranges, FD. Tsk, tsk.
Quote: Quote:I would suggest that before condemning a belief system it behoves the condemner to actually understand it.
I ask Muslims about Islam. You do your best to cover your ears every time they open their mouths.
I don't. I also know that no Muslim is empowered to speak for all other Muslims, FD. Unlike you, whom seems to accept any Tom, Dick or Mohammed as the spokesman for all Muslims as long as they bring you something which you can beat all Muslims with.
I have known quite a few Muslims over the years and have found them all, bar one, to be good people. I don't accept the fringe, Islamist Takfiris as being anything than spokespeople for themselves, FD.
And I'd suggest it doesn't matter how often you are told this, you prefer your bigotry and Islamophobia. You describe anybody who holds an opinion different to yourself about Muslims as a "limp-wristed apologist", even before you've considered what they say.
Quote: Quote:I don't claim to understand everything about Islam but I do know that Muslims are simply people and no different to any other people.
Except that they are Muslims. I'm sure a Muslim would argue that makes them different. Not that you would accept a Muslim's word on the issue.
That is merely the religion they follow. Just as Jews and Catholics and Protestants and other religious followers believe they are the "chosen people" the thing that they use to mark themselves out as different is their religious beliefs, yet once you get past that, they are people, just like me and maybe even just like you, FD.
You know what makes me laugh the most about you, FD? If one changed the tags, you'd sound exactly like the Islamists. They believe the most preposterous things about Christians and other religions. Just like you. You're their mirror-image. "We have met the enemy and he is us..."
Quote: Quote:You however treat Muslims as if they are automatons.
So you keep saying. You are wrong.
Yet your attitudes betray you, FD. Your continued dogmatic attacks on Muslim stereotypes prove otherwise.
Quote: Quote:I wonder how many Catholics you know who are divorced/use contraception/had an abortion/etc., etc.? They seem able to reconcile their views and actions with their beliefs, yet according to you, Muslims must obey every tenant of the Q'ran even when they are contradictory!
No Gandalf. According to Muslims they must do this. I am happy for them to abandon Islam.
They don't have, any more than those Catholics do, despite going against some of the central tenants of their Church's dogma. Muslims, like everybody else, perhaps even more so, have their own interpretations of their religion, FD and that is not something you accord them, do you?
Quote: Quote:If nothing else you sound like a replay of the criticisms I used to hear levelled at Catholics in Australia when I was a child.
Were the catholics suggesting it is OK to marry 6 year old girls?
If they came from Italy before 1945, they were for children of 12. If they came from some states in the USA, yes they were. Today, if they come from the Vatican State, they believe it's perfectly OK for children of 12 to marry. Where is you condemnation of that, FD? Mmmm...
Quote: Quote:The same ridiculous claims, the same idiotic views. Australian society recognised how foolish that was and got over that sectarian divide, I hope you'll get over yours.
And yet here you are, demanding that I criticise catholics in order to be fair to Islam.
Are you arguing that Catholics should be given a free ride, FD? Are you arguing about the problems of "institutionalisation" or just one religion? Or will you duck those two questions...