Australian Politics Forum - Abbott Tells Another One

Lobo

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Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Reply #15 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:20pm

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:16am:

What gets me is not so much the lies, but the fact that so many are believing them without question.

Are conservatives incapable of independent thought and seeking independent opinions/fact sources?

Because that certainly appears to be the case...

Rhetorical question I presume, Kat......

Wink

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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

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Verge

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Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Reply #16 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:33pm

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:11pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Care to tell me how Rudd's current position on the Boat People isn't a downright lie and a complete turn around from his previous position.

Talk about Abbott lying Rudd takes the cake and the whole ceremony with his latest effort.

I suppose he had to do something since he was the direct one responsible for opening the floodgates and letting in 46,000 mouths to feed, clothe and shelter, for most of them, for the rest of their lives.

What a total f... up that chub is, yet the public adore him...for what?

If you do something and get it wrong, doesnt it make sense to change your position and get it right?

That doesnt make you a liar, it makes you a leader.

We have all taken moral positions on different topics which, while set out with good intentions, have had people abuse our generosity. Its not a nice feeling, and can leave a sour taste in your mouth which leads to a change in position.

Its all well and good to say he created the problem, however the Australian people created this problem, they elected him on a policy platform, and this was a key one.

I have no problem with someone changing a position on a subject when that subject is being abused and taken for a ride, actually I would expect and demand that of them. It doesnt make them a liar one bit.

Good old centre-right Verge, supporting Labor again.

The point is that Rudd and other Laborites all demonised the Coalition, and is now doing the exact same thing as they did. Why haven't they, at the very least, apologised to the Coalition and admit that they were wrong?

What is interesting is that Rudds policy on asylum seekers is a policy of the right, not the left.

I never had a problem with Howards policy on Asylum seekers.
Howards policy was responsible because not only did it deter the now current issue, but he rightly so increased our refugee intake so more people that had gone through the right channels and had been processed were able to settle here.

So yes, I think I have still maintained my balance on the issue.

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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

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matty

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Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Reply #17 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:39pm

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:11pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Care to tell me how Rudd's current position on the Boat People isn't a downright lie and a complete turn around from his previous position.

Talk about Abbott lying Rudd takes the cake and the whole ceremony with his latest effort.

I suppose he had to do something since he was the direct one responsible for opening the floodgates and letting in 46,000 mouths to feed, clothe and shelter, for most of them, for the rest of their lives.

What a total f... up that chub is, yet the public adore him...for what?

If you do something and get it wrong, doesnt it make sense to change your position and get it right?

That doesnt make you a liar, it makes you a leader.

We have all taken moral positions on different topics which, while set out with good intentions, have had people abuse our generosity. Its not a nice feeling, and can leave a sour taste in your mouth which leads to a change in position.

Its all well and good to say he created the problem, however the Australian people created this problem, they elected him on a policy platform, and this was a key one.

I have no problem with someone changing a position on a subject when that subject is being abused and taken for a ride, actually I would expect and demand that of them. It doesnt make them a liar one bit.

Good old centre-right Verge, supporting Labor again.

The point is that Rudd and other Laborites all demonised the Coalition, and is now doing the exact same thing as they did. Why haven't they, at the very least, apologised to the Coalition and admit that they were wrong?

What is interesting is that Rudds policy on asylum seekers is a policy of the right, not the left.

I never had a problem with Howards policy on Asylum seekers.
Howards policy was responsible because not only did it deter the now current issue, but he rightly so increased our refugee intake so more people that had gone through the right channels and had been processed were able to settle here.

So yes, I think I have still maintained my balance on the issue.

Fair enough, but what about Rudd and other Laborites not apologising for getting it wrong?

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BILL SHORTEN WILL NEVER BE PM!!!!

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John Smith

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Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Reply #18 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:42pm

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:39pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:11pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Care to tell me how Rudd's current position on the Boat People isn't a downright lie and a complete turn around from his previous position.

Talk about Abbott lying Rudd takes the cake and the whole ceremony with his latest effort.

I suppose he had to do something since he was the direct one responsible for opening the floodgates and letting in 46,000 mouths to feed, clothe and shelter, for most of them, for the rest of their lives.

What a total f... up that chub is, yet the public adore him...for what?

If you do something and get it wrong, doesnt it make sense to change your position and get it right?

That doesnt make you a liar, it makes you a leader.

We have all taken moral positions on different topics which, while set out with good intentions, have had people abuse our generosity. Its not a nice feeling, and can leave a sour taste in your mouth which leads to a change in position.

Its all well and good to say he created the problem, however the Australian people created this problem, they elected him on a policy platform, and this was a key one.

I have no problem with someone changing a position on a subject when that subject is being abused and taken for a ride, actually I would expect and demand that of them. It doesnt make them a liar one bit.

Good old centre-right Verge, supporting Labor again.

The point is that Rudd and other Laborites all demonised the Coalition, and is now doing the exact same thing as they did. Why haven't they, at the very least, apologised to the Coalition and admit that they were wrong?

What is interesting is that Rudds policy on asylum seekers is a policy of the right, not the left.

I never had a problem with Howards policy on Asylum seekers.
Howards policy was responsible because not only did it deter the now current issue, but he rightly so increased our refugee intake so more people that had gone through the right channels and had been processed were able to settle here.

So yes, I think I have still maintained my balance on the issue.

Fair enough, but what about Rudd and other Laborites not apologising for getting it wrong?

you're an idiot ... no one owes you an apology ... get over it

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Verge

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Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Reply #19 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:47pm

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:39pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:11pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Care to tell me how Rudd's current position on the Boat People isn't a downright lie and a complete turn around from his previous position.

Talk about Abbott lying Rudd takes the cake and the whole ceremony with his latest effort.

I suppose he had to do something since he was the direct one responsible for opening the floodgates and letting in 46,000 mouths to feed, clothe and shelter, for most of them, for the rest of their lives.

What a total f... up that chub is, yet the public adore him...for what?

If you do something and get it wrong, doesnt it make sense to change your position and get it right?

That doesnt make you a liar, it makes you a leader.

We have all taken moral positions on different topics which, while set out with good intentions, have had people abuse our generosity. Its not a nice feeling, and can leave a sour taste in your mouth which leads to a change in position.

Its all well and good to say he created the problem, however the Australian people created this problem, they elected him on a policy platform, and this was a key one.

I have no problem with someone changing a position on a subject when that subject is being abused and taken for a ride, actually I would expect and demand that of them. It doesnt make them a liar one bit.

Good old centre-right Verge, supporting Labor again.

The point is that Rudd and other Laborites all demonised the Coalition, and is now doing the exact same thing as they did. Why haven't they, at the very least, apologised to the Coalition and admit that they were wrong?

What is interesting is that Rudds policy on asylum seekers is a policy of the right, not the left.

I never had a problem with Howards policy on Asylum seekers.
Howards policy was responsible because not only did it deter the now current issue, but he rightly so increased our refugee intake so more people that had gone through the right channels and had been processed were able to settle here.

So yes, I think I have still maintained my balance on the issue.

Fair enough, but what about Rudd and other Laborites not apologising for getting it wrong?

Im not interested in apoligies from pollies. It means nothing to me. I want to see action and I want to see issues resolved.

How is saying "sorry" going to make one ounce of difference to this matter.

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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

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matty

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Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Reply #20 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:53pm

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:47pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:39pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:11pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Care to tell me how Rudd's current position on the Boat People isn't a downright lie and a complete turn around from his previous position.

Talk about Abbott lying Rudd takes the cake and the whole ceremony with his latest effort.

I suppose he had to do something since he was the direct one responsible for opening the floodgates and letting in 46,000 mouths to feed, clothe and shelter, for most of them, for the rest of their lives.

What a total f... up that chub is, yet the public adore him...for what?

If you do something and get it wrong, doesnt it make sense to change your position and get it right?

That doesnt make you a liar, it makes you a leader.

We have all taken moral positions on different topics which, while set out with good intentions, have had people abuse our generosity. Its not a nice feeling, and can leave a sour taste in your mouth which leads to a change in position.

Its all well and good to say he created the problem, however the Australian people created this problem, they elected him on a policy platform, and this was a key one.

I have no problem with someone changing a position on a subject when that subject is being abused and taken for a ride, actually I would expect and demand that of them. It doesnt make them a liar one bit.

Good old centre-right Verge, supporting Labor again.

The point is that Rudd and other Laborites all demonised the Coalition, and is now doing the exact same thing as they did. Why haven't they, at the very least, apologised to the Coalition and admit that they were wrong?

What is interesting is that Rudds policy on asylum seekers is a policy of the right, not the left.

I never had a problem with Howards policy on Asylum seekers.
Howards policy was responsible because not only did it deter the now current issue, but he rightly so increased our refugee intake so more people that had gone through the right channels and had been processed were able to settle here.

So yes, I think I have still maintained my balance on the issue.

Fair enough, but what about Rudd and other Laborites not apologising for getting it wrong?

Im not interested in apoligies from pollies. It means nothing to me. I want to see action and I want to see issues resolved.

How is saying "sorry" going to make one ounce of difference to this matter.

So you see nothing wrong with Labor playing the moral high ground for years over boat people, and then turning around and doing the same thing for which they demonised the Coalition, without so much as an apology or an admittance that they were wrong??

John Smith is a Labor hack who accepts anything that Labor does without question, so I would accept such a reply from him, but I thought you smarter and more balanced than that.

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BILL SHORTEN WILL NEVER BE PM!!!!

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Verge

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Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Reply #21 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:08pm

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:53pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:47pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:39pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:11pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Care to tell me how Rudd's current position on the Boat People isn't a downright lie and a complete turn around from his previous position.

Talk about Abbott lying Rudd takes the cake and the whole ceremony with his latest effort.

I suppose he had to do something since he was the direct one responsible for opening the floodgates and letting in 46,000 mouths to feed, clothe and shelter, for most of them, for the rest of their lives.

What a total f... up that chub is, yet the public adore him...for what?

If you do something and get it wrong, doesnt it make sense to change your position and get it right?

That doesnt make you a liar, it makes you a leader.

We have all taken moral positions on different topics which, while set out with good intentions, have had people abuse our generosity. Its not a nice feeling, and can leave a sour taste in your mouth which leads to a change in position.

Its all well and good to say he created the problem, however the Australian people created this problem, they elected him on a policy platform, and this was a key one.

I have no problem with someone changing a position on a subject when that subject is being abused and taken for a ride, actually I would expect and demand that of them. It doesnt make them a liar one bit.

Good old centre-right Verge, supporting Labor again.

The point is that Rudd and other Laborites all demonised the Coalition, and is now doing the exact same thing as they did. Why haven't they, at the very least, apologised to the Coalition and admit that they were wrong?

What is interesting is that Rudds policy on asylum seekers is a policy of the right, not the left.

I never had a problem with Howards policy on Asylum seekers.
Howards policy was responsible because not only did it deter the now current issue, but he rightly so increased our refugee intake so more people that had gone through the right channels and had been processed were able to settle here.

So yes, I think I have still maintained my balance on the issue.

Fair enough, but what about Rudd and other Laborites not apologising for getting it wrong?

Im not interested in apoligies from pollies. It means nothing to me. I want to see action and I want to see issues resolved.

How is saying "sorry" going to make one ounce of difference to this matter.

So you see nothing wrong with Labor playing the moral high ground for years over boat people, and then turning around and doing the same thing for which they demonised the Coalition, without so much as an apology or an admittance that they were wrong??

John Smith is a Labor hack who accepts anything that Labor does without question, so I would accept such a reply from him, but I thought you smarter and more balanced than that.

Political parties demonise each other over any topic that generates media hits, so I dont really care either way.

I thought he did admit he got it wrong.

Mr Rudd again defended his decision to drop the Howard government's Pacific solution after the 2007 election, but he acknowledged it should have been adjusted in 2009/10 when global circumstances changed.

He has admitted they failed to act. What more do you want?

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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

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John Smith

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Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Reply #22 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:32pm

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:08pm:

I thought he did admit he got it wrong

he did, but that wasn't good enough for Matty. Matty wants a personally signed letter in triplicate hand delivered whilst riding on the back of a Alpaca.

On another matter,

You've just gotta love it when someone who has admitted he will always vote liberal, calls someone else a 'hack'.... you can just smell the hypocrisy in the air.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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longweekend58

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Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Reply #23 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:46pm

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:16am:

What gets me is not so much the lies, but the fact that so many are believing them without question.

Are conservatives incapable of independent thought and seeking independent opinions/fact sources?

Because that certainly appears to be the case...

I know why you believe the above nonsense. You are terminally bitter and stupid. but the rest of the country is probably capable of recognising that Abbott has support as much Gillard legislation as Labor supported Howard. It is those confusing things called 'facts' which so mess with people like you.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Reply #24 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:48pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

amazing .... rather than comment on Abbotts lies they deflect to anything but Abbott. There is already a thread on Rudd ... if you think he lies, post it there, if you don't care that Abbott lies, don't pretend you care if Rudd lies. If your name is Cods, stick to knitting or crochet.

oh the irony... which naturally you did not pick up on. EVERY thread on Rudd immediately becomes a discussion on Abbott. And you are the worst offender.

The OP is essentially inaccurate and lacking in historical perspective. It is also, nothing more than opinion from and extremely biased source.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Reply #25 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:52pm

# wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:17pm:

cods wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:39am:

THERE WILL BE NO CARBON TAX UNDER A GOVT I LEAD> Angry

See, there you reveal yourself.

First, what is a lie? http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-369653-what-is-a-lie.html "A common temptation is to define a lie as a statement that isn’ t true. But things are more complicated than this.
...
The importance of someone' s intentions has been long recognised by philosophers. St. Augustine argued that `a person is to be judged as lying or not lying according to the intention in his own mind, not according to the truth or falsity of the statement.'"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lie "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive;"

Second, who is lying? Did Gillard intend to deceive? Did she intend to keep her promise? At the time she made that promise, a carbon tax was not Labor policy. Truth be known, Gillard's not keen on action to mitigate global warming. On the evidence, she intended to keep that promise, breaking it only to get the Greens' support. There's no evidence that the words were spoken "with deliberate intent to deceive".

Abbott is sufficiently well educated to know that Gillard's broken promise is not a lie. For political expediency, he repeatedly misrepresented it as such. Abbott repeatedly made, and continues to repeat, "a false statement ... with deliberate intent to deceive".

The most persistent and prolific liar in Australian politics today is Tony Abbott. Given the state of Australian politics today, that's quite an achievement.

The saddest part is, Abbott has so little regard for his followers that he expects them to believe the most blatant (and often inconsistent) perversions of truth. You prove his expectation justified.

cods wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:39am:

I WILL NOT CHALLENGE AGAIN I HAVE TOO MUCH INTEGRITY. Angry

Rudd isn't one of my favourite people. The only thing he has going for him is that Abbott is worse.

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 1:48pm:

Kat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:16am:

...
Are conservatives incapable of independent thought and seeking independent opinions/fact sources?...

... Politics is value-laden; never objective, never impartial.

Perhaps, but does that necessitate accepting without question? Surely, the maxim is "Trust but verify".

Mindless trust does seem to be most prevalent in the Rabid Right.

the failure on your argument is the argument behind the carbon tax. Gillard did not need to offer ANYTHING to get Greens support. they were never in a million years going to support Abbott and in fact, said so on election night. And whent he Greens tore up their agreement with Labor, what happened? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Because they were never going to dump labor and support Abbott. So why did Gillard claim she brought in a hated carbon tax to gain the support of a party that would always support her???

because she always intended to and it is the only explanation that's fits the facts. She LIED

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Reply #26 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:54pm

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Care to tell me how Rudd's current position on the Boat People isn't a downright lie and a complete turn around from his previous position.

Talk about Abbott lying Rudd takes the cake and the whole ceremony with his latest effort.

I suppose he had to do something since he was the direct one responsible for opening the floodgates and letting in 46,000 mouths to feed, clothe and shelter, for most of them, for the rest of their lives.

What a total f... up that chub is, yet the public adore him...for what?

If you do something and get it wrong, doesnt it make sense to change your position and get it right?

That doesnt make you a liar, it makes you a leader.

We have all taken moral positions on different topics which, while set out with good intentions, have had people abuse our generosity. Its not a nice feeling, and can leave a sour taste in your mouth which leads to a change in position.

Its all well and good to say he created the problem, however the Australian people created this problem, they elected him on a policy platform, and this was a key one.

I have no problem with someone changing a position on a subject when that subject is being abused and taken for a ride, actually I would expect and demand that of them. It doesnt make them a liar one bit.

that COULD be an explanation. But given rudds previous behaviour it is far more likely that he is choosing a policy to gain him votes. And if that is the case then it is nor a moral position at all and rather, a cynical vote-gaining exercise.

and once again, Rudd did NOT go to the election promising to dump the Pacific Solution so stop trying to blame the Australian people for a decision that was typical Rudd: rushed, ill-considered and a failure.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: Abbott Tells Another One Reply #27 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:55pm Smell the fear.
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longweekend58

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Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Reply #28 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:57pm

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:47pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:39pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

matty wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 4:11pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

red baron wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Care to tell me how Rudd's current position on the Boat People isn't a downright lie and a complete turn around from his previous position.

Talk about Abbott lying Rudd takes the cake and the whole ceremony with his latest effort.

I suppose he had to do something since he was the direct one responsible for opening the floodgates and letting in 46,000 mouths to feed, clothe and shelter, for most of them, for the rest of their lives.

What a total f... up that chub is, yet the public adore him...for what?

If you do something and get it wrong, doesnt it make sense to change your position and get it right?

That doesnt make you a liar, it makes you a leader.

We have all taken moral positions on different topics which, while set out with good intentions, have had people abuse our generosity. Its not a nice feeling, and can leave a sour taste in your mouth which leads to a change in position.

Its all well and good to say he created the problem, however the Australian people created this problem, they elected him on a policy platform, and this was a key one.

I have no problem with someone changing a position on a subject when that subject is being abused and taken for a ride, actually I would expect and demand that of them. It doesnt make them a liar one bit.

Good old centre-right Verge, supporting Labor again.

The point is that Rudd and other Laborites all demonised the Coalition, and is now doing the exact same thing as they did. Why haven't they, at the very least, apologised to the Coalition and admit that they were wrong?

What is interesting is that Rudds policy on asylum seekers is a policy of the right, not the left.

I never had a problem with Howards policy on Asylum seekers.
Howards policy was responsible because not only did it deter the now current issue, but he rightly so increased our refugee intake so more people that had gone through the right channels and had been processed were able to settle here.

So yes, I think I have still maintained my balance on the issue.

Fair enough, but what about Rudd and other Laborites not apologising for getting it wrong?

Im not interested in apoligies from pollies. It means nothing to me. I want to see action and I want to see issues resolved.

How is saying "sorry" going to make one ounce of difference to this matter.

Well according to Rudd, labor and the bleeding left, saying 'sorry' makes ALL the difference. Didn't we have a Sorry Day after all? But you are right because after that day labor proceeded to do absolutely nothing for aboriginals at all.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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cods

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Re: Abbott Tells Another One
Reply #29 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:59pm

I am totally amazed anyone actually reads the drivel wiseone c&ps..now you are telling me someone actually believes it..oh well takes all kinds..

hilarious!!!

wait till we c&p all ruddymk11.s lies and integrity bloopers...when he is in opposition .. that if he stays in that uncomfortable chair... Grin

somehow I cant see that massive EGO doing that

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