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Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi (Read 11986 times)

Yadda

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Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Jul 27^th, 2013 at 12:46pm

Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practising one

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 26^th, 2013 at 9:06pm:

Yadda ~ I believe it's possible for new schisms to occur amongst the Islamic congregation just as happened with Sunni, Sh'ia, Wahhabi, etc.

Check this out ... Pro-Western Muslims.

These are good people. They are sick of being tarred with the same brush as the delinquents who do the bombings and the hate-speech.

These people genuinely want to become Muslims who subscribe only to the best instructions and teachings of their faith that are acceptable to Western values.

More strength to them I say.

These people are very bravely organising a protest against the Muslim hardliners who want Sharia Law to be legalised in the UK. It takes guts and sincerity to challenge the Muslim hardliners.

They deserve our respect and good wishes.

Sorry Herbert,

IMO, these people are either, deluded, or, they are a part of a covert moslem program to deflect popular criticism [in the broader community] of ISLAM, away from all moslems.

Herbert,

Western Democracy and ISLAM each have [conflicting] laws, and each system cannot, can never, co-exist with the other.
For any person to declare that they are a moslem, is to declare their support for ISLAM - AND SUPPORT FOR ITS TENETS AND ITS SYSTEM OF LAWS, SHARIA LAW.

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

I know that some moslems [resident in the West] have claimed that they oppose the introduction of Sharia law [in the nation where they reside].
If that is true, AND, if those people claim to be moslems, then i ask this question; In what sense are these people moslems ?

Is it because those people have decided, to >> call << themselves moslems ?

The truth is that it is ISLAM itself [and ISLAM alone], that has always reserved to itself, the right to define who is a moslem [and who is not a moslem!].

Those people, wayward moslems, who wish to hang onto the 'community' of being a moslem, [while portraying themselves as moslems] who oppose the tenets and laws of ISLAM, are persons who, imo, are still defending, and who are trying to defend, the 'nicer' ideals of ISLAM.
And in that, they >> are << defending the name of ISLAM in this world [and, and in that, they are giving comfort to REAL moslems].
They are persons who, in some perverse personal desire to hang on to 'community', are defending their 'imaginings' of what ISLAM could be [i.e. something 'nice'], if only their mainstream moslem brothers would listen, to them!
But ISLAM cannot reformed, or be nice, ever!
That is an impossible illusion.
Why so ?
Because ISLAM is ISLAM, and a moslem [ultimately], is a moslem [i.e. 'a follower of Islam'].

“There is no radical islam–there is only islam.”

Tayyip Erdogan

Those persons who wish to remain as members of their community, and to refer to themselves as 'moslems', persons who imagine that they can 'struggle' for a nicer ISLAM, need to grow a set, and they need to choose - TO CHOOSE TO ABANDON ISLAM, to separate themselves from ISLAM.

Q.
Do those 'nice' moslems imagine that they can make a silk purse out of a sows ear ?

It is not possible to redeem ISLAM - unless large sections of the Koran can be jettisoned.

Ask a moslem, about the sanctity and the integrity of the Koran!!

To a [devout] moslem, the Koran is inerrant, and in its entirety the Koran is regarded by all moslems as the uncorrupted word of Allah !!

MORE....

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #1 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 12:47pm

CONTINUED FROM LAST POST....

Quote:

“The ‘moderate Islam’ concept is wrong. The word ‘Islam’ is a simple word – it is only Islam. If you say ‘moderate Islam,’ then an alternative is created, and that is ‘immoderate Islam.’ I cannot accept such a concept as a Muslim.”

Prime Minister of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdo?an

As Erdoan said, there is no moderate ISLAM. There is no extreme ISLAM. ISLAM is ISLAM.

http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/05/where-is-the-outrage-from-alleged-moderate-mus...

Quote:

Western policies are to blame, says Livingstone
By Andrew Sparrow, Political Correspondent
20/07/2005
Ken Livingstone yesterday blamed western policies for contributing to the spread of the extremist beliefs that inspired the London bombers.
......In a separate move, Anjem Choudary, the UK leader of the militant Islamist group al-Muhajiroun, interviewed for BBC Radio 4's Today programme said.....
"The British Government wants to...........divide the Muslim community into moderates and extremists, whereas this classification doesn't exist in Islam," he said.
"Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practising one....."

Google;
ANJEM "Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practising one"

As far as [ISLAM and] devout moslems are concerned, being a moslem, is like being pregnant, YOU EITHER ARE, OR, YOU ARE NOT!

AND, ISLAMIC law makes it clear that those who oppose ANY part of the tenets and laws of ISLAM - ARE NOT MOSLEMS.

Quote:

quiltgal
Sep. 13, 2011 at 10:02am

In her essay, “The Nature of Governments,” Ayn Rand deals with your very good point: That having 2 sets of laws in the same geographical area is absurd. She calls it the theory of “competing governments.” She says the proponents of this theory declare that “since competition is so beneficial to business, it should also be applied to government…and there should be a number of different governments in the same geographical area, competing for the allegiance of individual citizens, with every citizen free to ‘shop’ and to patronize whatever government he chooses.” She then gives an example of its implementation and makes it easy to see that in practice this theory is completely unworkable and would lead to anarchy.

You are right: American law and Sharia law are not the same and cannot co-exist within the same government.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/09/13/muslim-group-seeks-to-ban-sharia-law-...

888888

Herbert,

Those 'moslems' [who in oppose ISLAM!!!] may be genuinely good people. [in opposing Sharia law, they are opposing ISLAM! ...and they still want to refer to themselves, as moslems ?]

But if they are genuinely good people, they are deluded.

ISLAM is an un-reformable, vicious, deceitful, wicked and evil, death cult.

ISLAM cannot be reformed [....without moslems being willing to 'jettison' much of the Koran].

+++

2 Corinthians 6:16
.....as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 20979 A cat with a view	Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi Reply #2 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 1:00pm moses is correct, imo. *The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)* http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1366856138/260#260
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Yadda

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #3 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 1:30pm

Yadda wrote on Jul 27^th, 2013 at 12:46pm:

Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practising one

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 26^th, 2013 at 9:06pm:

Sorry Herbert,

IMO, these people are either, deluded,

or, they are a part of a covert moslem program to deflect popular criticism [in the broader community] of ISLAM, away from all moslems

Herbert,

FOR EXAMPLE;

Now that such a group of moslems exists within our own community [claiming to be 'moderate' and 'nice' moslems who believe in and support pluralism],...

NOW, any moslem in our community, that we may challenge about his views as a moslem, can now claim to be aligned with the views of such a group.

i.e.
The existence of groups of moslems such as this, just lays us open to further widespread lies and deception from all moslems in our communities - while they, as individual moslems, are free to go about, surreptitiously, seeking ways to undermine our broader community and its institutions.

They look like moslems to me!!

http://www.seculardemocracy.org/

+++

Herbert,

I cannot bring myself to align myself with a group of people like this.

If they are sincere, these 'moslems' would denounce ISLAM, and abandon it, imo.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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shockresist

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #4 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 3:14pm

If People where sincere, they would abandon judaism and christinaity and join islam.

Jesus predicted the coming of Mohamed as mentioned in the bible.

John 16:7-13 :
" But I tell you the truth, It is better for you that I should go away; for if I do not away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I should go, I will send him to you.

And Again jesus didn't complete his mission and he only came with part of the truth, because as he mentions concerning the coming of Mohamed,

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you John 14:26

And the Koran mentions jesus 25 times, again reminded us that islam spoke highly of jesus.

No such thing called the trinity exists in the old or new testament, not even three gods in one is mentioned. Trinity is a church made phenomenon which is used to deceive man kind.

Jesus was a muslim and a prophet just like prophets before him, be it Abraham, moses or adam.

The gospels refer to jesus as a prophet as seen many many cases like verse luke 7:16 and is mentioned as prophet of Nazareth. matt- 21:11

Jesus repeatedly called for one God as did prophet Mohamed,

1. Worship the lord your god, and serve him only-matthew

2.Hear O Israel, the lord, our lord is one lord- Mark

3.No-one has ever seen god-John

4.Now this is life eternal, that they know you, the only true god, and jesus whom you have sent-John

5.Has not the one god made and sustained for us the spirit of life-Malachi

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shockresist

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #5 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 3:19pm

Jesus himself asked God's help and said. "I by my own myself can do nothing".. So I rather say the GOD that Jesus prayed to is with me than his slave.. Matthew 26:39 "Jesus fell on his face and prayed to HIS GOD"...Hebrew 5:7 he prayed and cried for GOD to hear him and give him mercy by saving him from death.

John 8:28 Jesus said "I by my own myself can do nothing"

John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"

Matthew 24:36 Jesus said "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, butonly the Father."

Matthew 26:39 "Jesus fell on his face and prayed to HIS GOD"

There's hundreds upon hundreds of these showcasing Jesus is not God and depended on God, prayed to God, cried to God, etc...

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shockresist Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 151 sydney Gender:	Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi Reply #6 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 3:33pm
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47481 At my desk.	Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi Reply #7 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 3:49pm The heart of Islam:
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True Colours Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2837 Gender:	Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi Reply #8 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 5:21pm freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2013 at 3:49pm: The heart of Islam: http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/img/hway-2-mecca-muslims-only.jpg Can a Muslim buy a house in the Vatican City? Is this the true face of Judaism:
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47481 At my desk.	Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi Reply #9 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 5:33pm You can't buy a house if no-one is willing to sell to you. But you can visit vatican city as far as I know. You can even visit Israel. Muslims are the only ones who segregate an entire city on religious grounds.
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True Colours

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #10 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 5:49pm

freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2013 at 5:33pm:

You can't buy a house if no-one is willing to sell to you.

But you can visit vatican city as far as I know...

The Quran only forbids non-Muslims to be allowed near the Holy Mosque in Mecca.

The Saudi Government has extended this to the whole city of Mecca.

Islam and Saudi Government are not the same thing.

Many Islamic scholars have said that Islam allows non-Muslims to visit Mecca.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47481 At my desk.	Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi Reply #11 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 5:54pm Muhammed 'prophesied' that one of his companions would expel all non-Muslims from the Arabian peninsula. He managed to get rid of a fair chunk of them - always the fault of the non-Muslim of course.
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Adamant

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #12 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 6:04pm

shockresist wrote on Jul 27^th, 2013 at 3:14pm:

If People where sincere, they would abandon judaism and christinaity and join islam

No they would abandon islam and all peoples on the planet would be happy for them!

shockresist wrote on Jul 27^th, 2013 at 3:14pm:

Jesus predicted the coming of Mohamed as mentioned in the bible

No he did not ever this is just another stinking muslim lie!

shockresist wrote on Jul 27^th, 2013 at 3:14pm:

And the Koran mentions jesus 25 times, again reminded us that islam spoke highly of jesus

Well it would as it is a reference point for a man of ill repute who was born 600 years later and wished to cash on his own filthy cult, which by the way is one of the most disgusting ever created by man,

True Colours wrote on Jul 27^th, 2013 at 5:21pm:

Can a Muslim buy a house in the Vatican City

Can we have Christendom back the Holiest of Holies. the one Stole from Christians, can we take it back from the Turkish killers the muslim murderers?

In real life Gandalf is known as Mr 10%

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moses

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #13 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 6:36pm

I see the muslims are trying to claim the Holy Spirit of Judiasm and Christianity as somehow signifying a thief, liar, pedophile, rapist, torturer and mass murderer muhammad, as the intended meaning.

Well to me that is just another muslim lie.

The HOLY SPIRIT EXISTED AT CREATION
Quote:

Genesis1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

THE HOLY SPIRIT ENTERED CHRIST AT BAPTISM
Quote:

Matthew3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

GOD RAISED JESUS FROM THE DEAD,THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS AVAILABLE TO BELIEVERS
Quote:

Romans8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

THE HOLY SPIRIT ENABLES BELIEVERS IN CHRIST'S SALVATION TO RECEIVE GIFTS
Quote:

1 Corinthians12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into oneSpirit.

12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.

SPIRIT IS SPIRIT / FLESH IS FLESH
Quote:

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the [b]Spirit is spirit.

THE SPIRIT WILL COMFORT CHRISTIANS
Quote:

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

GRACE OF CHRIST,LOVE OF GOD, FELLOWSHIP OF HOLY SPIRIT BONDS CHRISTIANITY
Quote:

2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

CHRIST HAS SENT THE HOLY SPIRIT TO CHRISTIANS ON EARTH
Quote:

Acts2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

It seems very clear that the SPIRIT is a spiritual / mental state of being. The SPIRIT OF GOD gives mental / spectral comfort and counseling to believers in the absence of the physical God.

There is nothing to show that it refers to a physical man, who in any case was nothing more than human filth, in the light of, Judaeo Christian religious ethos.

Why are muslims liars all the time?

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Yadda

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #14 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 7:00pm

shockresist wrote on Jul 27^th, 2013 at 3:14pm:

If People where sincere, they would abandon judaism and christinaity and join islam.

Jesus predicted the coming of Mohamed as mentioned in the bible.

No he didn't.i Quote:

John 16:7-13 :
" But I tell you the truth, It is better for you that I should go away; for if I do not away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I should go, I will send him to you.

And Again jesus didn't complete his mission and he only came with part of the truth, because as he mentions concerning the coming of Mohamed,

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you John 14:26

And the Koran mentions jesus 25 times, again reminded us that islam spoke highly of jesus.

No such thing called the trinity exists in the old or new testament, not even three gods in one is mentioned. Trinity is a church made phenomenon which is used to deceive man kind.

Jesus was a muslim

and a prophet just like prophets before him, be it Abraham, moses or adam.

The gospels refer to jesus as a prophet as seen many many cases like verse luke 7:16 and is mentioned as prophet of Nazareth. matt- 21:11

Jesus repeatedly called for one God as did prophet Mohamed,

1. Worship the lord your god, and serve him only-matthew

2.Hear O Israel, the lord, our lord is one lord- Mark

3.No-one has ever seen god-John

4.Now this is life eternal, that they know you, the only true god, and jesus whom you have sent-John

5.Has not the one god made and sustained for us the spirit of life-Malachi

Poppycock.

Moslem poppycock [falsehood].

+++

Acts 3:12
And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this?....
....
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Luke 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.i
shockresist,

I do NOT worship a three God 'trinity'.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

John 14:8
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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