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Why would anyone support Thommo? (Read 14269 times)
longweekend58
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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #225 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:12pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 12:46pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 10:04am:
it would be easier to debate with you if you understood the substance of the argument.  ask yourself the question as to why the police investigated and charged Slipper while they have not charged anyone of the dozens asked to make repayments in allowances in the last few years???  Could perhaps the reason be one of INTENT??
Try and think about it.



No they all have the same intent even Abbott - to not pay ?? Something for free ???


If you compare Abbott as an example then you clearly see that the intent is the same.

Paying for a trip to the winery or paying for a book tour.

Paying for taxi fares or paying to attend iron man or cycling events.

They both knew what they were doing - the intent is the same.




are you stupid or something?  the 'intent' is to get a legitimate expense reimbursed.  just as in most companies and every parliament, these expenses are sometimes rejected.  Not Crimes.  Slipper however was a different situation where as the court has bene told he repeatedly and deliberately used items which he KNEW he was not entitled to.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #226 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:14pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 1:01pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 9:53am:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 29th, 2013 at 9:42pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29th, 2013 at 7:35pm:
there is a HIGHER standard for MPs.  I don't know why you don't know that.


Yes if you are not an MP you are allowed to steal and the laws don't matter. But of course if you are a Liberal MP then the laws don't matter anyway.



Why is it as soon as you start taking of HIGHER STANDARDS or PRINCIPLES labor supports suddenly seem unable to understand the argument.


There are hundreds of examples which show that you are only interested in applying higher standards to those you oppose.

Mr Abbott can be accused of  multiple assults and bullying, telling all sorts of lies, setting up slush funds involved in dubious political set ups etc and all is good, no need for any standards what so ever.


accused.  read and understand.  not even a prima facie case made for them
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Aussie
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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #227 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:15pm
 
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Verge
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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #228 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:16pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:06pm:
Verge wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 10:12am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 9:49am:
Verge wrote on Jul 29th, 2013 at 8:27pm:
The job of an opposition is to hold the govermemt to account, represent their constituents and to provide a viable alternative.

It is not to dismantle a sitting government with sleaze and innuendo, nor miss represent the true position of the economy.

How many times did they attempt to suspend standing orders?

Abbots junk yard dog routine has gone on long enough and has done nothing to portray our leaders to a positive light.

I hope we get another hung parliament to teach the barstards a lesson that if they want to play the man and not the ball we will elect neither of them again.



oh please... do you spend your days watching Play School?  You are behaving as if every labor opposition has not done exactly the same thing and worse. When you talk about the Libs misrepresenting the state of the economy you fail to state that Labor - IN GOVT - has done just that and far worse.  How can a budget go from small surplus to massive deficit in a couple months without deliberate misrepresentation?

But mostly, I am amused and disappointed that you seme to understand little of the true nature of politics which is and has always been... A FIGHT.

You must hate our legal system too.  it is essentially the same thing.


You see this is the difference between you and I.

You accept the behaviour because you like to point at the other side and say "but they did it too".

I was thinking you you might be a bit more visionary and expect our pollies to make themselves more accountable and to behaviour in a manner which they are elected to be - leaders.

I dont accept poor form because the others guys did it too.  It is never an excuse, and by condoning it you are giving them a green tick to be dishonest as long as the end justifies the means.



you are a different person than before you left.  now you seem to adopts positions that re either black or white - a bit like a well written greens-lose.  Politics is never going to be a gentlemans game any more than courts area going to be so.  they are adversarial in DESIGN - not simply nature.  An opposition leader that does not oppose and criticise will merely fail and let the govt get away with anything and everything.

how am I supposed to debate to any value with you when you simply change your opinions to suit the argument?  are you Rudd?


My opinions have changed as Ive become tired of our political system being reduced to a rabble by people with no sense of decency, honor and respect.

I find it embarrassing to watch the going-ons of the house, the type of drama driven language and the finger pointing going on by all and think they are leaders?

I dont accept from my daughter that she hit her sister because she hit her first, I dont accept poor behaviour from my staff who justify it by saying that someone else did it too and I sure as hell am not going to accept it from those who are elected to represent us.

What ever happened to a bit of common decency and respect?  What happened to integrity & honesty?

Sooner or later you have to say enough is enough.  Why do you think we ended up with a hung parliament in the first place?  People are sick to death of the carrying on's in Canberra.
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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #229 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:16pm
 
Lobo wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 1:58pm:
Quote:
Why is it as soon as you start tak(l)ing of HIGHER STANDARDS or PRINCIPLES labor support(er)s suddenly seem unable to understand the argument.
longy

Yet you have trouble coming to grips with 'innocent until proven guilty'.

Cheesy



I understand it perfectly.  it is you laborites and your endless accusations against abbott that fail that test.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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cods
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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #230 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:18pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 4:08pm:
cods wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 1:20pm:
can you link that up for dna.. I must admit I havent read it.. I thought the $9000 was a one off...but if it was decades then I think we should all be aware of it and not just the few dont you?..

I will give the benefit of the doubt to a first even a second but after that????..

so when did he start and has he stopped??..

thank you.


That was the point the 10,000 was a one off with several different one off components but the cycle events etc were obviously different one off's of his personal costs put on the public account.

http://www.finance.gov.au/publications/parliamentarians-reporting/docs/T28/ABBOT...

Cycling from Gold Coast to Sydney Allowances. $345 a day.

01 Apr 11 01 Apr 11 Gold Coast Office Holder - Official  Business 1 $345.00 $345.00
02 Apr 11 02 Apr 11 Kyogle Office Holder - Official Business 1 $345.00 $345.00
03 Apr 11 03 Apr 11 Grafton Office Holder - Official Business 1 $115.00 $115.00
04 Apr 11 04 Apr 11 Dorrigo Office Holder - Official Business 1 $345.00 $345.00
05 Apr 11 05 Apr 11 Armidale Office Holder - Official Business 1 $345.00 $345.00
06 Apr 11 06 Apr 11 Walcha Office Holder - Official Business 1 $345.00 $345.00
07 Apr 11 07 Apr 11 Gloucester Office Holder - Official Business 1 $345.00 $345.00
08 Apr 11 08 Apr 11 Cessnock Office Holder - Official Business 1 $345.00 $345.00
09 Apr 11 09 Apr 11 Ettalong Beach Office Holder - Official Business 1 $345.00 $345.00




thats very interesting I didnt know we could perve on their expenses.. what a wonderful idea..

it says OFficial business...I guess it wasnt?? is that what they are saying?....anyway its good to know we can check them out isnt it???.

boy you are sneaky? Grin
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #231 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:19pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:00pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 10:10am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 9:59am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 8:56am:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29th, 2013 at 5:40pm:
wow... I never knew that!!! 

the point was that he has been investigated several times and now facing both civil and criminal charges.  That hardly amounts to the smell of innocence and integrity, does it.  plenty of politicians and senior employees in large companies have stepped aside once charged with such things as a matter of honesty and integrity and come back once the charges were defeated.

but no thommo.  but always good to see you lot defending such behaviour.  it explains so much.



Well, now you do know that.

Also, being "investigated several times and now facing both civil and criminal charges" is not the same as being convicted of a crime.

And finally, I'm not "defending such behaviour". Quite the opposite: if he's found guilty on these charges he should have the book thrown at him.  No sympathy at all.

So far though, no conviction.

We'll all wait and see. Unless, of course, you'd rather just do away with our court system.    Roll Eyes


If this were a court of law you would have a point.  But last time I looked, it was an OPINION forum where people are permitted and encouraged to hold an opinion on the basis of what they have seen and heard. Thommo is scum. 



Yes, I'm sure you form many opinions based on your observations of the Bolt Report and Channel 7 "News".

Thankfully, that's where you and I differ.


presumptuous little turd.  I don't watch TV news at all and have never watched Bolt.  I know it confuses you left-wingers but there are people who form their opinions based on a variety of information and are capable of disagreeing with you.  if you want to debate on facts and figures etc =go right ahead. 



Fact: Thompson has not been convicted of any of the 173 fraud-related charges.

Your opinion is not sufficient to deem him a "criminal".

Sorry.
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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #232 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:22pm
 
Quote:
My opinions have changed as Ive become tired of our political system being reduced to a rabble by people with no sense of decency, honor and respect.

I find it embarrassing to watch the going-ons of the house, the type of drama driven language and the finger pointing going on by all and think they are leaders?

I dont accept from my daughter that she hit her sister because she hit her first, I dont accept poor behaviour from my staff who justify it by saying that someone else did it too and I sure as hell am not going to accept it from those who are elected to represent us.

What ever happened to a bit of common decency and respect?  What happened to integrity & honesty?

Sooner or later you have to say enough is enough.  Why do you think we ended up with a hung parliament in the first place?  People are sick to death of the carrying on's in Canberra.


Excellent post.
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cods
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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #233 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:24pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:16pm:
Lobo wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 1:58pm:
Quote:
Why is it as soon as you start tak(l)ing of HIGHER STANDARDS or PRINCIPLES labor support(er)s suddenly seem unable to understand the argument.
longy

Yet you have trouble coming to grips with 'innocent until proven guilty'.

Cheesy



I understand it perfectly.  it is you laborites and your endless accusations against abbott that fail that test.



fancy you arguing with our resident bush lawyer longy he knows everything I thought you would have known that..not only that if he says dont talk about anyone that isnt mentioned in the OP.. then he means it...

so no mention of Abbott on a THOMO thread... get it?
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Dnarever
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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #234 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:24pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:12pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 12:46pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 10:04am:
it would be easier to debate with you if you understood the substance of the argument.  ask yourself the question as to why the police investigated and charged Slipper while they have not charged anyone of the dozens asked to make repayments in allowances in the last few years???  Could perhaps the reason be one of INTENT??
Try and think about it.



No they all have the same intent even Abbott - to not pay ?? Something for free ???


If you compare Abbott as an example then you clearly see that the intent is the same.

Paying for a trip to the winery or paying for a book tour.

Paying for taxi fares or paying to attend iron man or cycling events.

They both knew what they were doing - the intent is the same.




are you stupid or something?  the 'intent' is to get a legitimate expense reimbursed.  just as in most companies and every parliament, these expenses are sometimes rejected.  Not Crimes.  Slipper however was a different situation where as the court has bene told he repeatedly and deliberately used items which he KNEW he was not entitled to.


are you stupid or something? Ditto - unbelievable

You really think that Abbott is so stupid that he does not realise that a book tour and cycling are not legitimate government costs, You really think it is an accident ????

the court has bene told he repeatedly and deliberately used items which he KNEW he was not entitled to

Look at Abbotts record on this - it is the same. He repeatedly and deliberately made claims which he KNEW he was not entitled to.
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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #235 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:36pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:16pm:
Lobo wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 1:58pm:
Quote:
Why is it as soon as you start tak(l)ing of HIGHER STANDARDS or PRINCIPLES labor support(er)s suddenly seem unable to understand the argument.
longy

Yet you have trouble coming to grips with 'innocent until proven guilty'.

Cheesy



I understand it perfectly.  it is you laborites and your endless accusations against abbott that fail that test.


moron ... you're not just making accusations, you've even found him guilty.

All rise for his honour, Longstupidone
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Dnarever
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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #236 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 9:30pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:14pm:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 1:01pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 9:53am:
Dnarever wrote on Jul 29th, 2013 at 9:42pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29th, 2013 at 7:35pm:
there is a HIGHER standard for MPs.  I don't know why you don't know that.


Yes if you are not an MP you are allowed to steal and the laws don't matter. But of course if you are a Liberal MP then the laws don't matter anyway.



Why is it as soon as you start taking of HIGHER STANDARDS or PRINCIPLES labor supports suddenly seem unable to understand the argument.


There are hundreds of examples which show that you are only interested in applying higher standards to those you oppose.

Mr Abbott can be accused of  multiple assults and bullying, telling all sorts of lies, setting up slush funds involved in dubious political set ups etc and all is good, no need for any standards what so ever.


accused.  read and understand.  not even a prima facie case made for them


You went feral demanding that Slipper stand down over allowance rorts now we find that Abbott had been doing the same thing and you defend him.
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longweekend58
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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #237 - Jul 31st, 2013 at 9:40am
 
Verge wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 2:22pm:
While it is a noble concept of innocent before guilty, I also think that there needs to be certain things happen while the judicial process runs its course.

I think once a person is charged with a serious offence, they should set aside from their position, note step aside, not resign, while the process runs its course.

After a verdict then the person may either return or resign depending on the outcome.

If you are to maintain any amount of intergrity in our nations leaders we need to ensure that they carry on in a manner fitting of the position they hold, one being of trust, intergrity and being seen to do the right thing.

We dont need pollies from opposite sides of the house throwing mud every chance they can because someone is determined to carry on in their positions after charges have been laid, nor is it a good look.

I have no issue with people standing down on full pay while the process does what it needs to.

This is the case in many other professions and one that should happen in our political system.

I think the person should be granted an automatic pair during the leave of absence to prevent actions like that of the coalition getting grubby with Ashby to use it to unsettle a majority in the house.



I agree with you.  The trouble is that this 'stepping aside' is voluntary and therefore requires integrity int he person charged to act accordingly.  unfortunately, this integrity is usually being demanded of people who don't have that integrity.  Even Thommo didn't resign from his parliamentary positions but has to be sacked,
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #238 - Jul 31st, 2013 at 9:44am
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 2:48pm:
Quote:
I made it quite clear people should stand down once charged.

I dont think people like Thommo can represent their electorate while once charged anyway, as proven with Thommo.

By continuing to show up day after day all it does it further agrivate the situation and go to further poison the public and allow people like abbott to continue to throw mud.

I dont think they can be active representatives while things like this are going on, and by allowing a pair it places the oppositions at no advantage anyway.


I can easliy see your point, but it fails to take into account that politicians like Abbott will do anything to be in Government.  Windsor will attest to that.

What if Gretch had not been found out early as an idiot, Rudd would have been charged, and your concept has him stand down.  Yes, I know you want a pair in that circumstance, but that hardly compensates for the damage done against Rudd (by stepping down) politically, even though he was 100% innocent of any wrong doing.

Nah, we'll have to go with what we've got (the Constitution) in an imperfect world where power at any cost is the name of the game.


you miss the concept of integrity.  if Rudd has actually been charged then yes, he should step down but it never got anywhere near that and never was going to.  nevile Wran stepped down when he was accused of serious wrong-doing and once cleared, came back.  it was an act of integrity.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #239 - Jul 31st, 2013 at 9:48am
 
Aussie wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:09pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 5:02pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 10:12am:
Quote:
it would be easier to debate with you if you understood the substance of the argument.  ask yourself the question as to why the police investigated and charged Slipper while they have not charged anyone of the dozens asked to make repayments in allowances in the last few years???  Could perhaps the reason be one of INTENT??

Try and think about it.


Melielongtime, the person who has no idea is you, and the biggest giggle is that it seems you have no idea that you have no idea.

Slipper was charged and Abbott has not been charged, not because of intent, but because someone referred Slipper's matter by way of complaint to the AFP!

*Click on the words 'someone referred Slipper's matter by way of complaint to the AFP.'*


and you think that a mere referral by labor to the AFP would result in abbott being charged??  if it were that bleeding easy, do you not think it would have happened?

you must have been a pretty lousy lawyer based on your understanding on here.


Yeah, I was lousy....for 33 years.  When I retired, I was an expert on lousy.  And guess what?  I agree with you that the explanation given to distinguish between Slipper charged and Abbott not charged makes no logical sense......but it is what happened.  Both allegedly rorted (with intent) their entitlements, yet only one is charged.


you were really a lousy lawyer if you think 'intent' is as trivial as you make it out to be.  Just as lying doesn't means saying things that are false but you believe them to be true, 'defrauding' doesn't mean claiming an entitlement you believe you are entitled to but subsequently shown not to be.

it would be trivial to torpedo that argument you make.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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