Australian Politics Forum - Muhammed the thief

freediver

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #135 - Mar 31^st, 2017 at 11:52am

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As for Gandalf "admitting" that a state of war only commenced with the first caravan raid (although n fact, his argument is considerably more nuanced than that), i disagree. I would say a state of war commenced with the torture, persecution, acts of sanctioned theft and confiscation of goods and property, and attempted assassination attempts upon the Muslims by the Meccans.

And this justifies pretty much anything a Muslim might want to do, such as getting rich robbing trade caravans?

Have Muslims ever not been in a state of war?

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Finally, it has been pointed out to you several times that the Meccans dd not send an army "years later".

You made this claim. It is false.

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But you're right. Despite the fact that this sort of theft is allowed in even modern rules of engagement, I call it theft too.

Because there was no "engagement" other than Muhammad killing people in the act of theft?

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Muhammed played by the rules of his time. Can he still be a prophet? Of course. Can he still have divine revelations?

Muhammad grew up in a trade and mercantile city. I doubt rampant theft was accepted as part of the rules.

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Indeed. Plenty of prophets were far from perfect.

LOL. Especially Muhammad.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #136 - Mar 31^st, 2017 at 3:39pm

mothra wrote on Mar 31^st, 2017 at 11:11am:

As for Gandalf "admitting" that a state of war only commenced with the first caravan raid (although n fact, his argument is considerably more nuanced than that), i disagree. I would say a state of war commenced with the torture, persecution, acts of sanctioned theft and confiscation of goods and property, and attempted assassination attempts upon the Muslims by the Meccans.

By driving the muslims out and confiscating their property, the Meccans deprived these mercantile people from a merchant city a livelihood. It is quite amusing watching FD spinelessly apologise for this persecution and blatant attack on (non-violent) freedom of speech.

Also robbing the Meccan caravans was as much about sustaining themselves financially as it was about retaliating against the initial Meccan aggression.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47364 At my desk.	Re: Muhammed the thief Reply #137 - Mar 31^st, 2017 at 5:41pm So it was a form of collective punishment against the city of Mecca? Muhammad became a career thief out of a sense of righteousness?
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Frank

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #138 - Mar 31^st, 2017 at 6:02pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 31^st, 2017 at 3:39pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 31^st, 2017 at 11:11am:

As for Gandalf "admitting" that a state of war only commenced with the first caravan raid (although n fact, his argument is considerably more nuanced than that), i disagree. I would say a state of war commenced with the torture, persecution, acts of sanctioned theft and confiscation of goods and property, and attempted assassination attempts upon the Muslims by the Meccans.

By driving the muslims out and confiscating their property, the Meccans deprived these mercantile people from a merchant city a livelihood. It is quite amusing watching FD spinelessly apologise for this persecution and blatant attack on (non-violent) freedom of speech.

Also robbing the Meccan caravans was as much about sustaining themselves financially as it was about retaliating against the initial Meccan aggression.

Preposterous but completely expected and routine piffle.

Algeria, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran - where are your Jews?

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freediver

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #139 - Mar 31^st, 2017 at 6:08pm

Muhammad went from refugee to conquering the whole Arabian peninsula in about 15 years through acts of subsistence and self defense.

Gandalf you also argued that Muhammad did not have the political power or authority to slaughter the Jews of Medina. Are you saying that he was in a position to seek retribution against the whole city of Mecca despite being in such a weak position?

Or were you merely pretending to be confused?

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issuevoter

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #140 - Mar 31^st, 2017 at 6:15pm

As to the poll, the idea of compensation can be seen as blood money. Also, it does not seem to take into account that Germany paid very dearly for WW1 and WW2. Part of the ease with which the Nazis took power was due to the dire state of life in Germany after WW1, which the population blamed (with some justification) on the Allies and their terms of armistice.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 40523 Gender:	Re: Muhammed the thief Reply #141 - Mar 31^st, 2017 at 6:23pm freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2017 at 6:08pm: Muhammad went from refugee to conquering the whole Arabian peninsula in about 15 years through acts of subsistence and self defense. Insh'allah, innit?
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freediver

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #142 - Mar 31^st, 2017 at 9:27pm

Frank wrote on Mar 31^st, 2017 at 6:07pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 31^st, 2017 at 10:55am:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2017 at 10:23am:

Muhammad the thief:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1374276604/132#132

Oh dear. How embarrassing for you.

Do you, Mothra, take this here Mohammed as your personal guide for your relationship to other people's property?

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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 34507 Gender:	Re: Muhammed the thief Reply #143 - Mar 31^st, 2017 at 9:34pm And here was me ... thinking it was just a really stupid question.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47364 At my desk.	Re: Muhammed the thief Reply #144 - Mar 31^st, 2017 at 9:35pm Lets see if we can get a clever answer. Was Muhammad stealing when he raided those caravans?
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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 34507 Gender:	Re: Muhammed the thief Reply #145 - Mar 31^st, 2017 at 9:39pm Did the Meccans steal from the Muslims FD?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47364 At my desk.	Re: Muhammed the thief Reply #146 - Mar 31^st, 2017 at 9:49pm Are you sure you are not a Muslim Mothra? I'm sure I saw an Allahu Akbar in there somewhere. Let's try again and see if we can get a straight answer. Was Muhammad stealing when he raided those caravans?
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mothra

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #147 - Mar 31^st, 2017 at 9:51pm

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2017 at 9:49pm:

Are you sure you are not a Muslim Mothra? I'm sure I saw an Allahu Akbar in there somewhere. Let's try again and see if we can get a straight answer.

Was Muhammad stealing when he raided those caravans?

No FD. Let's get it in chronological order.

Did the Meccans steal from the Muslims?

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freediver

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #148 - Mar 31^st, 2017 at 9:52pm

mothra wrote on Mar 31^st, 2017 at 9:51pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2017 at 9:49pm:

Are you sure you are not a Muslim Mothra? I'm sure I saw an Allahu Akbar in there somewhere. Let's try again and see if we can get a straight answer.

Was Muhammad stealing when he raided those caravans?

No FD. Let's get it in chronological order.

Did the Meccans steal from the Muslims?

Are you asking me whether the Meccans acted as a collective?

Was Muhammad stealing when he raided those caravans?

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mothra

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #149 - Mar 31^st, 2017 at 9:54pm

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2017 at 9:52pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 31^st, 2017 at 9:51pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2017 at 9:49pm:

Are you sure you are not a Muslim Mothra? I'm sure I saw an Allahu Akbar in there somewhere. Let's try again and see if we can get a straight answer.

Was Muhammad stealing when he raided those caravans?

No FD. Let's get it in chronological order.

Did the Meccans steal from the Muslims?

Are you asking me whether the Meccans acted as a collective?

Was Muhammad stealing when he raided those caravans?

It's not a trick question FD.

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Poll
Question: Should Israel Take Compensation From Germany
No. Nazis stole stuff fair and square 0 (0.0%) No. It seems too Islamic 0 (0.0%) Yes. People have a right to compensation 5 (83.3%) No. Jews should let bygones be bygones 1 (16.7%) No. People should be free to persecute minorities 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 6 « Last Modified by: True Colours on: Aug 2^nd, 2013 at 4:05pm »