Australian Politics Forum - Muhammed the thief

freediver

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #105 - Apr 13^th, 2014 at 12:41pm

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He was waging war against the people who persecuted and drove his people out of their homes.

Is this the same as TC's argument that the Meccans had "declared war" on Muhammed?

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It also just happened to be a useful way of sustaining themselves.

Of course. They were starving. It was a happy coincidence that it kept them alive. And kicking.

Have you changed your mind about Muhammed's excuse now? They were not stealing out of desperation, but as an act of war?

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A debate over whether or not the booty he stole was rightly his or not is neither here nor there.

Shouldn't a religious leader act morally?

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Because Medina was not a mercantile centre. Mecca was because it was the site of a famous pilgramage. They are not going to be able to compete for trade with Mecca - especially after they had been driven out of their homes with very few possessions.

Why couldn't they compete? The trade caravans were going past Medina. Why not participate in that trade rather than destroying it? Sounds like a poor excuse for the fact that they preferred to steal rather than work for a living.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #106 - Apr 13^th, 2014 at 12:54pm

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2014 at 12:41pm:

Is this the same as TC's argument that the Meccans had "declared war" on Muhammed?

Its an argument that Muhammad waged war on the people who persecuted and drove his people out of their homes. Thats as clear as I can make it. No need to try and necessarily obfuscate it.

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2014 at 12:41pm:

Shouldn't a religious leader act morally?

You're not making any sort of a case that it wasn't moral.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #107 - Apr 13^th, 2014 at 2:35pm

FD, your interrogations appear to be running out of steam. If you don't mind me saying, you're starting to sound like a little old lady complaining to a friend about her dodgy plumber.

Have you given any thought to just reading a book on what you're discussing? You never seem too happy with any of the answers you get here.

Just an idea, dear. There are no right or wrong answers, you know.

Although I must say, FD, the old boy, Y and your good self do seem most grumpy on this board. And Moses - don't get me started on him. What is it about the Islam board that brings out such cheerless grumpiness?

Is that what you mean by freedom?

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freediver

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #108 - Apr 13^th, 2014 at 6:57pm

Quote:

Its an argument that Muhammad waged war on the people who persecuted and drove his people out of their homes. Thats as clear as I can make it. No need to try and necessarily obfuscate it.

You'll have to be a bit patient with me here, as I have not seen a Muslim spin it this way before. When did he start waging war?

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You're not making any sort of a case that it wasn't moral.

How would I go about making a case that would satisfy you that theft is immoral?

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Have you given any thought to just reading a book on what you're discussing?

Go ahead and suggest one if you want. Apparently the most relevant one is pretty much unreadable. Gandalf never answered my question about how many books I have to read before I can figure out for myself that someone's views are messed up.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #109 - Apr 13^th, 2014 at 9:20pm

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2014 at 6:57pm:

Quote:

Its an argument that Muhammad waged war on the people who persecuted and drove his people out of their homes. Thats as clear as I can make it. No need to try and necessarily obfuscate it.

You'll have to be a bit patient with me here, as I have not seen a Muslim spin it this way before. When did he start waging war?

Quote:

You're not making any sort of a case that it wasn't moral.

How would I go about making a case that would satisfy you that theft is immoral?

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Have you given any thought to just reading a book on what you're discussing?

Go ahead and suggest one if you want. Apparently the most relevant one is pretty much unreadable. Gandalf never answered my question about how many books I have to read before I can figure out for myself that someone's views are messed up.

I gave you a good reference on Islamic psychiatry, FD. Writer by the name of P.B Khunt. You never read them. You don't even read the ones we discuss.

Much more fun to aska the questions, eh?

I have to ask though - how do you make such acute judgements on the Muselman based on no more than Herbie's UK Mirror articles, Y's Bible quotes, and the words of the ever-absent Abu?

Y and the old boy are happy to keep gesticulating ad nauseum, but don't you ever want to know more?

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« Last Edit: Apr 13^th, 2014 at 9:29pm by Karnal »

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50568 At my desk.	Re: Muhammed the thief Reply #110 - Apr 13^th, 2014 at 9:38pm I judge Gandalf by his own words. Same with Abu, Falah, Malik, TC and all the rest of them. I don't need to read a book to do so. It's called thinking for yourself.
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 98425	Re: Muhammed the thief Reply #111 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 12:21am freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2014 at 9:38pm: I don't need to read a book to do so. It's called thinking for yourself. Ah.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #112 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 10:08am

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2014 at 6:57pm:

You'll have to be a bit patient with me here, as I have not seen a Muslim spin it this way before. When did he start waging war?

I'm the most patient person in the world when it comes to answering your interrogations FD - you might have noticed.

As for your confusion, I can only repeat what I said - as it is literally impossible to dumb down my argument any more:

Muhammad waged war against the people who persecuted and drove his people out of their homes.

I'm sure you can look up the dates for when the caravan raids started.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Karnal

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #113 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 12:53pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 10:08am:

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2014 at 6:57pm:

You'll have to be a bit patient with me here, as I have not seen a Muslim spin it this way before. When did he start waging war?

I'm the most patient person in the world when it comes to answering your interrogations FD - you might have noticed.

As for your confusion, I can only repeat what I said - as it is literally impossible to dumb down my argument any more:

Muhammad waged war against the people who persecuted and drove his people out of their homes.

I'm sure you can look up the dates for when the caravan raids started.

I think FD would rather ask you about those dates, G.

It's called thinking for yourself.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Muhammed the thief Reply #114 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 1:01pm lol. I was going to try and think up something funny, but FD parodies himself far better than I could.
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Karnal

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #115 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 1:33pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 1:01pm:

lol.

I was going to try and think up something funny, but FD parodies himself far better than I could.

Yes, but FD should have the freedom to do that, G.

freediver wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 8:48am:

I wouldn't want to sound like a bigot.

FD, you see, has the freedom to not sound like a bigot. Let's all hear him as someone interested in truth and freedom, please.

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freediver

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Re: Muhammed the thief
Reply #116 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 1:39pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 10:08am:

freediver wrote on Apr 13^th, 2014 at 6:57pm:

You'll have to be a bit patient with me here, as I have not seen a Muslim spin it this way before. When did he start waging war?

I'm the most patient person in the world when it comes to answering your interrogations FD - you might have noticed.

As for your confusion, I can only repeat what I said - as it is literally impossible to dumb down my argument any more:

Muhammad waged war against the people who persecuted and drove his people out of their homes.

I'm sure you can look up the dates for when the caravan raids started.

From what I have seen, very few people regard Muhammed's career as a caravan robber to be warfare. I am not asking you when he raided caravans. I am asking you when you consider that it became warfare. It is an important concept, as Muslims such as yourself regard warfare as an excuse to drop every moral principle they have, yet they also throw the term around rather loosely.

Ironically enough, when it comes to slaughtering POWs, they will make the opposite argument - that it was not warfare - because that would go against the last Muslim moral principle left standing.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 98425	Re: Muhammed the thief Reply #117 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 1:40pm freediver wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 1:39pm: Ironically enough, when it comes to slaughtering POWs, they will make the opposite argument - that it was not warfare - because that would go against the last Muslim moral principle left standing. How do you know that, FD? Did you read it? Or did Abu tell you?
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Muhammed the thief Reply #118 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 3:15pm freediver wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 1:39pm: From what I have seen, very few people regard Muhammed's career as a caravan robber to be warfare. I do. Why not? Its what I've been saying all along.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Muhammed the thief Reply #119 - Apr 14^th, 2014 at 3:17pm freediver wrote on Apr 14^th, 2014 at 1:39pm: Muslims such as yourself regard warfare as an excuse to drop every moral principle they have Ah.
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Poll
Question: Should Israel Take Compensation From Germany
No. Nazis stole stuff fair and square 0 (0.0%) No. It seems too Islamic 0 (0.0%) Yes. People have a right to compensation 5 (83.3%) No. Jews should let bygones be bygones 1 (16.7%) No. People should be free to persecute minorities 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 6 « Last Modified by: True Colours on: Aug 2^nd, 2013 at 4:05pm »