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Jews always to blame for conflict, never Muslims (Read 44853 times)
Baronvonrort
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Re: Jews always to blame for conflict, never Muslims
Reply #15 - Jul 19th, 2013 at 2:13pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 17th, 2013 at 4:36pm:
But what is this based on? The historical evidence? The evidence shows that he only expelled those who broke the covenant, and in doing so presented an existential threat to the tiny muslim nation. It was about survival, not inherent hatred of jews.


Quote:
The messenger of Allah made a raid upon the Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water.
He killed those who fought and imprisoned others
On that very day he catured Juwairiya.
www.sunnah.com/muslim/32/1


Quote:
The prophet of Allah attacked the Banu Mustaliq while they were inattentive and their cattle were drinking water.
So their fighters were killed and the survivors (ie women and children) were taken prisoners.
On that day Juwairiya was obtained.
www.sunnah.com/abudawud/15/157


Mohammad allowed his followers to rape the female captives along with stealing all the wealth of that jewish tribe,more here on the demise of the jews known as the Banu Mustaliq.
www.sunnah.com/search/banu-mustaliq

Mohammad attacked the Banu Mustaliq without warning, do you consider that to be self defence,are you fukn delusional?

It was Gabriel, a servant of Mohammads imaginary friend in the sky called Allah who told Mo to attack the Banu Qurayza.
www.sunnah.com/bukhari/64/161

More on the Banu Qurayza here-
www.sunnah.com/search/banu-quraiza

The Banu nadir show a pattern of attacking,looting and raping of jews by muslims.
www.sunnah.com/search/banu-nadir

The Quran says 20% of all war booty belongs to Mohammads imaginary friend in the sky called allah, why does allah need 20% of all war booty?
www.quran.com/8/41
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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Jews always to blame for conflict, never Muslims
Reply #16 - Jul 19th, 2013 at 2:23pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 19th, 2013 at 2:13pm:
Mohammad allowed his followers to rape the female captives


Where does it say that? I should add this to the making-sh!t-up thread.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Jews always to blame for conflict, never Muslims
Reply #17 - Jul 19th, 2013 at 2:28pm
 
What do you think concubine means Gandalf? A holiday by the sea? Muhammed himself took one of the women as a sex slave, after chopping her husband's head off. He offered to free her so that she could "voluntarily" marry him.
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Jews always to blame for conflict, never Muslims
Reply #18 - Jul 19th, 2013 at 2:30pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 19th, 2013 at 2:23pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 19th, 2013 at 2:13pm:
Mohammad allowed his followers to rape the female captives


Where does it say that? I should add this to the making-sh!t-up thread.



Right here Gandalf, what did mo say about coitus interruptus with captives?

www.sunnah.com/bukhari/64/182
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Jews always to blame for conflict, never Muslims
Reply #19 - Jul 19th, 2013 at 3:51pm
 
um yeah, the same account  Tongue

What we're after is something like

"forced ourselves upon them"
"non-consensual sex"
"took them against their will"

words to that effect.

Nothing, repeat nothing, in that account suggests that any non-consensual sex was going on.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Jews always to blame for conflict, never Muslims
Reply #20 - Jul 19th, 2013 at 3:57pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 19th, 2013 at 2:28pm:
What do you think concubine means Gandalf?


the freedictionary describes it pretty well I think. Nowhere does it mention rape. Concubines have been common throughout history, across cultures. Another term for them is "mistress". No one, except you, understands the term as anything to do with rape.

What is wrong with you?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Jews always to blame for conflict, never Muslims
Reply #21 - Jul 19th, 2013 at 4:13pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 19th, 2013 at 3:51pm:
um yeah, the same account  Tongue

What we're after is something like

"forced ourselves upon them"
"non-consensual sex"
"took them against their will"

words to that effect.

Nothing, repeat nothing, in that account suggests that any non-consensual sex was going on.


The women were captured, i suppose muslims will say they consented to slavery as well!

Quote:
Islam allows a man to have intercourse with his slave woman.

This is indicated by the Quran and sunnah.....

The good shiek will explain it all for you here-www.islamqa.com/en/10382



Is there a verse where Aisha consented to lose her virginity at age 9?
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Jews always to blame for conflict, never Muslims
Reply #22 - Jul 19th, 2013 at 4:18pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 19th, 2013 at 4:13pm:
i suppose


Thats been your problem all along Baron. Don't feel too bad though, its common enough around here.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Jews always to blame for conflict, never Muslims
Reply #23 - Jul 19th, 2013 at 4:24pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 19th, 2013 at 4:18pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 19th, 2013 at 4:13pm:
i suppose


Thats been your problem all along Baron. Don't feel too bad though, its common enough around here.


Do you expect a rational person (ie non muslim) to believe Juwairiya and Safiyya consented to marry Mohammad on the very same day he had their husbands killed after muslims attacked their tribes?

Muslims spin this as Mo was a kind man who married widows!

You did call enslaving women and children as protective custody
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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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True Colours
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Re: Jews always to blame for conflict, never Muslims
Reply #24 - Jul 19th, 2013 at 4:42pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 19th, 2013 at 2:28pm:
What do you think concubine means Gandalf? A holiday by the sea? Muhammed himself took one of the women as a sex slave, after chopping her husband's head off. He offered to free her so that she could "voluntarily" marry him.


You certainly are full of misinformation Freediver.

The woman in question was actually freed and offered marriage. She chose to be married to the Prophet. She not only voluntarily became a Muslim, but also became a scholar of Islam who people would seek out for verdicts on religion.

Her name was Saffiya. She had been the daughter and wife of Israeli chieftains. Her manumission and marriage to the leader of state were a gesture of good-will - similar to how marriage between royal families is designed to create bonds. They had a loving and caring relationship which is borne out in many hadith.

By all accounts Safiya not only became a scholar of Islam but was quite a religious Muslim performing a pilgrimage to Mecca.


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« Last Edit: Jul 19th, 2013 at 6:56pm by True Colours »  
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Jews always to blame for conflict, never Muslims
Reply #25 - Jul 19th, 2013 at 5:42pm
 
True Colours wrote on Jul 19th, 2013 at 4:42pm:
voluntarily


No no no TC - don't you get it by now? Nothing is ever voluntary in islam, never ever on stilts.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Jews always to blame for conflict, never Muslims
Reply #26 - Jul 19th, 2013 at 6:27pm
 
True Colours wrote on Jul 19th, 2013 at 4:42pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 19th, 2013 at 2:28pm:
What do you think concubine means Gandalf? A holiday by the sea? Muhammed himself took one of the women as a sex slave, after chopping her husband's head off. He offered to free her so that she could "voluntarily" marry him.


You certainly are full of misinformation Freediver.

The woman in question was actually freed and offered marriage. She chose to be married to the Prophet. She not only voluntarily became a Muslim, but also became a scholar of Islam who people would seek out for verdicts on religion.

Her name was Saffiya. She had been the daughter and wife of Israeli chieftains. Her manumission and marriage to the leader of state were a gesture of good-will - similar to how marriage between royal families is designed to create bonds. They had a loving and caring relationship which borne out in many hadith.

By all accounts Safiya not only became a scholar of Islam but was quite a religious Muslim performing a pilgrimage to Mecca.




I see. So this Jewish guy volunteered to have his head chopped off, all his posessions stolen and his wife taken home as a sex slave (under a different name) as a gesture of goodwill?
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True Colours
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Re: Jews always to blame for conflict, never Muslims
Reply #27 - Jul 19th, 2013 at 6:58pm
 
Freediver thinks marriage is sex slavery.  Cheesy
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Jews always to blame for conflict, never Muslims
Reply #28 - Jul 19th, 2013 at 7:07pm
 
True Colours wrote on Jul 19th, 2013 at 4:42pm:
The woman in question was actually freed and offered marriage. She chose to be married to the Prophet. She not only voluntarily became a Muslim,

Her name was Saffiya. She had been the daughter and wife of Israeli chieftains. Her manumission and marriage to the leader of state were a gesture of good-will-similar to how marriage between royal families is designed to create bonds.



Safiyya was free and married before muslims led by Mohammad attacked her tribe.
Mohammad ordered the torture of her husband Kiana to get him to reveal where the tribes wealth was hidden, they lit a fire of flint and steel on his chest (Sirat rasul allah by Ibn Ishaq, the earliest biofraphy of Mohammad) before chopping his head off.

Her marriage was a gesture of goodwill?
Goodwill to whom?
Mohammad attacked her tribe, Mohammad ordered the torture and death of her husband, muslims killed all the men in her tribe including her father and uncles, the women and children were sold into slavery by muslims,the tribes wealth was stolen by thieving muslims which the quran says allah gets 20% of in www.quran.com/8/41
Do you really think a rational person will believe killing off a tribe by chopping the heads off the men and enslaving the women and children while stealing their wealth is an act of goodwill?

This is Mohammads method of finding a wife, sounds a bit neanderthal to me-
Quote:
The prophet then bought Safiyya whom he had won from the war booty.
(Did it cost him 7 other slaves?)
www.sunnah.com/bukhari/70/53


Muslims did this by force, there is no doubt-
Quote:
Allah's messenger vanquished them by force and their warriors were killed:The children and women were taken as captives
Safiyya was taken by Dihya and later she belonged to allah's apostle who married her and her mahr was her manumission.
www.sunnah.com/bukhari/12/6


After Mohammad killed all the men in Safiyya's tribe,stole their wealth along with enslaving all the women and children, it left Safiyya with the choice of being Mohammad's slave or his wife,either way she was going to be buggered by a fat dwarf called Mohammad.
Quote:
The muslims wondered, Is she (Safiyya) considered his wife or slave girl?Then they said if he orders her to veil herself she will be a muslim, if not she will be a slave girl.
www.sunnah.com/bukhari/67/23


Mo was a fat dwarf-This Mohammad of yours is a dwarf and fat-www.sunnah.com/abudawud/42/154

Safiyya was dobbed in by her slave girl for praying on the sabbath.






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Re: Jews always to blame for conflict, never Muslims
Reply #29 - Jul 19th, 2013 at 7:39pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 19th, 2013 at 3:51pm:
um yeah, the same account  Tongue

What we're after is something like

"forced ourselves upon them"
"non-consensual sex"
"took them against their will"

words to that effect.

Nothing, repeat nothing, in that account suggests that any non-consensual sex was going on.




Mohammed and his companions took these women captive, for ransom.

Mohammed and his companions were detaining  these women, and preventing these women from leaving, and returning to the safety of their menfolk.






Which women did Allah allow moslem men to have sex with ?

"..Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess:..."
Koran 4.22-24

"O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee;..."
Koran 33.50



"women.....whom your right hands possess"
???

Q.
What does that mean ???

A.
war booty, i.e. captive women.



There is no record in the Koran, where Allah states that captive women must give their consent to sex with their captors.

Why not gandalf ?

n.b.
Allah is usually so fastidious about such details, about how moslem are to conduct themselves.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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