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Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism? (Read 63448 times)
Soren
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #285 - May 18th, 2013 at 10:45pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 18th, 2013 at 10:36pm:
Of course they are ok. Show me a mainstream muslim body or leader issuing any kind of fatwa supporting violence.



Er... Rushdie.




You are a forgetful lot, aren't you?
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moses
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #286 - May 18th, 2013 at 10:51pm
 
allah humma Innee As alooka 'ilman naa fee-ow wa Rizq-ow waa See-ow wa Shee-faa amm min Kooll-lee daa-een.

O allah, I ask you to grant me beneficial knowledge, abundant sustenance and cure from all diseases.

Well at a rough guess, I'd say know allah simply ain't listening.

Most of them are illiterate, living conditions are sub standard, they suffer from massive physical defects, caused by islamic inbreeding.

Maybe the old moon god allah's idea  of knowledge, sustenance and cure, is the antithesis of what the Christian and Jewish God's ideals are.
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #287 - May 18th, 2013 at 10:58pm
 
I repeat - a mainstream muslim leader or body.

The Ayatollahs brand of islam may be mainstream in Iran, but they are anything but mainstream to the entire islamic world.

Even less mainstream is the fatwa against Rushdie. Numerous islamic bodies (both sunni and shiite) reject the fatwa and consider it unrepresentative of islam.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Soren
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #288 - May 19th, 2013 at 9:45pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 18th, 2013 at 10:58pm:
I repeat - a mainstream muslim leader or body.

The Ayatollahs brand of islam may be mainstream in Iran, but they are anything but mainstream to the entire islamic world.

Even less mainstream is the fatwa against Rushdie. Numerous islamic bodies (both sunni and shiite) reject the fatwa and consider it unrepresentative of islam.



Too fvckn bad for the people who were ACTUALLY murdered in the name of Islam because they  -  * gulp * - translated the book.

How monstrously intolerant and primitive can they be? And all in the name of and justified by - Islam. Take a bow. 21st century and people are murdered in the name of Islam for what they think.


Not to mention the reflex self-censorship it induced in the cowards who want to 'accommodate' Islam.

As the Byzantine emperor said to the Muslim scholar -show me one positive thing that Islam has introduced into the world.


There isn't any.





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« Last Edit: May 20th, 2013 at 9:16pm by Soren »  
 
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Chimp_Logic
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #289 - May 19th, 2013 at 10:05pm
 
Yadda

Oh dear - it seems that your treatment isn't working

You are like a squealing little child brat that didn't get his toy

...
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Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness
 
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Soren
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #290 - May 27th, 2013 at 9:40pm
 
What is "radicalisation"?

This is what it is: it is taking Islam, the texts of Islam, fully to heart, and deciding to act upon them. That's what "radicalization" means. There are many Muslims who are, for now, living in the West, and unwilling to risk the good lives they have -- all the benefits they receive, not just the grants and the subsidies and the free education and the free health care so superior to anything offered in Muslim countries, but also the living in stable societies that, at least until the Muslim invasion, were temperate in their political climate, and well and securely run, by comparison with the hell-holes of Islam. So while they are perfectly willing, for now, not to act on the tenets of Islam to engage, directly, in violent Jihad, they are willing to use other instruments of Jihad, including that of propaganda -- or lying about the faith -- to continue to attempt to confuse and deceive unwary Infidels, for as long as possible.

Cameron and Clegg and Teresa May and others should be asked, publicly, to define "radicalization" among Muslims. Is there a different Qur'an that the "radicals" read? Different collections of the most "authentic" (based on the rankings given by the most respected muhaddithin, such as Bukhari and Muslim)? A different biography of Muhammad, the Perfect Man? No, the"radicals' read exactly the same Qur'an, the same Hadith, the same Sira. And the testimony of ever defector from Islam who has ever been able and willing, in the physical security that the West offers, is always the same: Islam is violent, Islam is dangerous, Islam is deceptive, Islam is based on an uncompromising division of the world between Believer and Unbeliever, Muslim and Infidel, and is obsessed with territory, with the further division of Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb, that is between the lands of where Muslims rule and what, for now, are still the lands of the Infidels. Between the two camps, according to the texts and tenets of Islam, there exists a state of permanent war, though not necessarily of open warfare on the battlefield. Islam teaches that the supreme duty of Muslims is to engage in Jihad, that is the "struggle" to remove all obstacles to the spread, and then the dominance, of Islam, so that ultimately, as is only right and just, Islam everywhere dominates, and Muslims rule, everywhere.
http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_display.cfm/blog_id/49254

Thoughts, Gandy and Brain?

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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #291 - May 28th, 2013 at 2:48pm
 
Quote:
Definition of radicalize
verb
[with object]

    1 cause (someone) to become an advocate of radical political or social reform:some of those involved had been radicalized by the Vietnam War

    2 introduce fundamental or far-reaching changes in:the push to radicalize 16-19 science education

Derivatives

radicalization
noun


Oxford works for me.  What about you?   Grin Grin Grin
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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #292 - May 28th, 2013 at 3:17pm
 
Soren wrote on May 27th, 2013 at 9:40pm:
What is "radicalisation"?

This is what it is: it is taking Islam, the texts of Islam, fully to heart, and deciding to act upon them.


Soooooo... apparently a radical is a muslims who believes and promotes a message of peace and understanding, mutual coexistence and tolerance of different cultures and beliefs.

If so, then call me a proud radical.  Smiley
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Soren
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #293 - May 28th, 2013 at 10:48pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2013 at 3:17pm:
Soren wrote on May 27th, 2013 at 9:40pm:
What is "radicalisation"?

This is what it is: it is taking Islam, the texts of Islam, fully to heart, and deciding to act upon them.


Soooooo... apparently a radical is a muslims who believes and promotes a message of peace and understanding, mutual coexistence and tolerance of different cultures and beliefs.

If so, then call me a proud radical.  Smiley


Brilliant!!! Nobody is a radical Islamist - because we are all radical Islamists!!

Guys who kill in the name of Islam, guys who say they kill because the Koran forces them to - they just don't know classical Arabic!!!

YAY! Islam has nuffin' to do with nuffin' and especially nuffin' to do wiv the Koran!



Does this speaker say anything untrue? Please teach us, Gandy.



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« Last Edit: May 28th, 2013 at 10:54pm by Soren »  
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #294 - May 28th, 2013 at 11:01pm
 
Soren wrote on May 28th, 2013 at 10:48pm:
Does this speaker say anything untrue? Please teach us, Gandy.


Hmmm I think I can guess the general gist of this video:

Islam sux.

Am right?

Yes its all true Soren! We are all so smacking evil, we just want to eat your children and take your women as sex slaves. Its true that I became a muslim because I'm just an all round arsehole, who is genuinely interested smacking things up for other people. Thats just the kind of guy I am.

Soren wrote on May 28th, 2013 at 10:48pm:
Guys who kill in the name of Islam, guys who say they kill because the Koran forces them to - they just don't know classical Arabic!!!


And guys who say that killing in the name of islam is completely unacceptable, they don't count - even though they're in the majority and speak for mainstream islam. No lets just ignore them. Carry on, keep quoting the extremists.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Soren
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #295 - May 28th, 2013 at 11:18pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2013 at 11:01pm:
Soren wrote on May 28th, 2013 at 10:48pm:
Does this speaker say anything untrue? Please teach us, Gandy.


Hmmm I think I can guess the general gist of this video:

Islam sux.

Am right?



No, you are wrong. 


You are sh!tting yourself about facing the possibility that  criticism of Islam could be actually right. Taking on board anything about Islam being capable of causing evil just terrifies you.


You are absolutely paralysed by the possibility that Islam is not perfect, that it is a matter of interpretation and that there is no correct way and that il is being done it its name.

You are an apparatchik, a propaganda functionary of Islam, not a thinking individual. All your silly, transparent tactics are deployed to avoid the one big scary thing that terrifies you more than anything else -Mohammed wasn't perfect and nor is Islam.

You will immediately claim that nobody else is perfect and evil is done in the name of all other religions. And that's true but irrelevant.

Only you guys claim Mohammed to be perfect and only you guys claim the Koran to be perfect. Neither claim is true but you have no way of retreating from these  ridiculously large and idiotically over-reaching claims of perfection. You are an idiot - or worse, an apostate - if you admit Koranic imperfection and you are an idiot if you maintain it. You are trapped and it shows. You want to be reasonable and you want to be true to the claim of perfect Islam - and it's not possible.

Listen to the guy, everything he claims is based on the Koran. Tell me where he goes wrong. Go on, I dare you to listen to him and then tell me how he is wrong.

But you won't because you are terrified of needing to defend the blatantly indefensible: that the Mohammed and the Koran are perfect.

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Soren
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #296 - May 28th, 2013 at 11:22pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2013 at 11:01pm:
And guys who say that killing in the name of islam is completely unacceptable, they don't count - even though they're in the majority and speak for mainstream islam. No lets just ignore them. Carry on, keep quoting the extremists.



The murderous bastards back up their claim with reference to the Koran.

You don't.

You just deploy rhetoric and puffery.

Show us how their Koranic claim of justification are wrong. Back up your claims by showing how the Koran they quote is wrong and you are right.






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polite_gandalf
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #297 - May 28th, 2013 at 11:37pm
 
For crying out loud Soren, don't ever say I never back up my claims with the quran. I have spent about half my time here demonstrating to baron and Yadda how the quran promotes peace and tolerance - and how the sword verses are mistranslated.

I mean that claim is right up there with your "muslims never blame muslims for killing Kufrs" joke.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #298 - May 29th, 2013 at 12:00am
 
Soren wrote on May 28th, 2013 at 11:18pm:
You are an apparatchik, a propaganda functionary of Islam, not a thinking individual


Thats your assumption - baseless as always.

Truth is you have no idea how much thinking I have done on islam, and what motivated me to become a muslim. See the problem here Soren is that you have created this rigid, unshakable reality that says muslims terrorising and using the quran to justify it = honest muslims, while muslims preaching peace and tolerance - and claiming a quranic basis = dishonest muslims. Thats the crux of it. The problem I, and I'm sure most other sensible and rational people, have with this is the fact that you take the side of the minority - and using the fact that the majority professes the opposite view of the quran - merely as proof that muslims are inherently dishonest. However to a rational person, it would seem far more sensible to simply say that its more likely that the majority are being honest, and what they say about the quran is more likely to be truer than what the minority extremists are saying.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Soren
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Re: Evidence mainstream islam facilitates radicalism?
Reply #299 - May 29th, 2013 at 12:05am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 28th, 2013 at 11:37pm:
For crying out loud Soren, don't ever say I never back up my claims with the quran. I have spent about half my time here demonstrating to baron and Yadda how the quran promotes peace and tolerance - and how the sword verses are mistranslated.

I mean that claim is right up there with your "muslims never blame muslims for killing Kufrs" joke.



Your problem is not baron or yadda or me. Your problem is the bastards who murder in the name of Islam.

They claim justification by Islam and the Koran. But you waive it aside and say they are somehow wrong or un-Islamic. How?

SHow us how their claims are wrong. Address their claim. This latest murdering bastard has given you very clear Koranic references. The video I posted demonstrates how Koranic his little speech was.

You as a muslim need to addres what he said, not what I said or baron or Yadda.
We are only bollocking you because you are shirking your task - show us how these Koranic claims are wrong.

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