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John Smith

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Re: New NDIS Levy
Reply #15 - May 1^st, 2013 at 5:04pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 5:01pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 4:56pm:

Swagman wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 4:19pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 3:02pm:

Companies don't pay GST either, or at least not in the long run ... they claim it back. It is the individuals or consumers that pay the GST (ie, taxpayers and pensioners and unemployed)

Yes there is that but they won't pay Gillard's levy either.

Don't forget pros, pimps, drug dealers, hawkers, buskers, O/S tourists pay the GST too....

you will never cover everybody .. there is always an element that misses out ... Pre GST , if I quoted $3000 to paint a house (an example that does not reflect any deals I may or may not have made), I would offer a discount of $300 for cash (off the books), after GST was introduced, I still charged $3000 , but this time I would offer to forget the GST for a cash deal. Thanks Howard for giving me an option to discounting. I got to pretend I was offering a discount, without really offering one. Increasing the GST only makes it more appealing to make more off the book deals. And the people most likely to take advantage of the off the book deals are pros, pimps, drug dealers, hawkers, buskers, O/S tourists .

the point was that you still ahve to buy paint and other items and GST is captured at that point. There will always be maggots like you seeking to rip off the system but GST reduces your options.

no it is not, the GST payed on that paint will be written off for another job and the GST claimed back anyway.

By the way, what makes you think I give a bugger what you think??

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longweekend58

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Re: New NDIS Levy
Reply #16 - May 1^st, 2013 at 6:02pm

Swagman wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 1:12pm:

]It would have to be revenue positive or else there'd be no point.[/highlight]

I favour a GST increase because the funding burden is spread.

IMO GST (increases / decreases) would be a more effective means of monetary policy anyway and should be used in lieu of interest rate movements. The downside is the admin of such policy would be difficult as systems are geared for a fixed percentage but the IT gurus should be able to work that out in this day and age.

Politicians of both sides are scared schitless about even talking about increasing the GST so I expect it will not happen and the minority that pay the majority of tax will continue to get shafted.... Sad

why shoudl the tax burden increase? spending is the problem not revenue. the GST taking the place of iniquitous taxes such as payroll tax and stamp duty would be a stimulus to industry and have a flowon effect in productivity instead of via tax increases.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: New NDIS Levy
Reply #17 - May 1^st, 2013 at 6:05pm

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 3:02pm:

Swagman wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 10:53am:

Regardless of the merits of the scheme Smithy as advised many times on this forum by me, Rudd and Gillard Labor's buy now and pay later spending sprees, would be, in effect, future income tax increases. Angry

This has now come to fruition. Angry

The levy is required because the Govt since taking office has irresponsibly overspent by $271 Billion and climbing and has consistently failed to balance the budget despite an unpresendented mining boom.

Ironically the interest on this climbing debt (around at least $8 Billion per annum) would come close to covering the cost of the NDIS.

Now the minority that pays the majority of tax has to reach into its pocket yet again to pay the lion's share of Labor's fiscal irresponsibiliy and broken promises. It is a sad and broken record. Sad

IMO the fairest option should a tax increase be required would be to increase the GST to cover not only this scheme but the whole health and education funding shortfalls. This has not been mentioned by any side of politics to my knowledge, not even discussed.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure you will) but the medicare levy is paid by individual income taxpayers and not companies?

Personal income tax payers are a declining breed as a percentage of the population. The baby boomers are retiring in droves and dropping off the list of income tax payers and the compounding burden of payment of Govt is falling upon fewer tax payers. Shocked

One of the reasons the GST (broad based tax) was introduced was due to the aging of the population issue and the problems this would have for the budget. Undecided

Companies don't pay GST either, or at least not in the long run ... they claim it back. It is the individuals or consumers that pay the GST (ie, taxpayers and pensioners and unemployed)

that is to avoid the add-on effect. without this, any single product could have GST added on at every stage of manufacture marketing and sale therefore making some products more tax that any other component. GST is the tax that companies dont pay but every owner or employee of said company does.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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John Smith

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Re: New NDIS Levy
Reply #18 - May 1^st, 2013 at 6:05pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 6:02pm:

Swagman wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 1:12pm:

]It would have to be revenue positive or else there'd be no point.[/highlight]

I favour a GST increase because the funding burden is spread.

IMO GST (increases / decreases) would be a more effective means of monetary policy anyway and should be used in lieu of interest rate movements. The downside is the admin of such policy would be difficult as systems are geared for a fixed percentage but the IT gurus should be able to work that out in this day and age.

Politicians of both sides are scared schitless about even talking about increasing the GST so I expect it will not happen and the minority that pay the majority of tax will continue to get shafted.... Sad

why shoudl the tax burden increase? spending is the problem not revenue. the GST taking the place of iniquitous taxes such as payroll tax and stamp duty would be a stimulus to industry and have a flowon effect in productivity instead of via tax increases.

I agree, stop wasting money propping up private corporations and we'd have plenty of money ..

no more money for private schools, private hospitals, no subsidising the mining industry, no giving tax breaks to millionaires .

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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longweekend58

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Re: New NDIS Levy
Reply #19 - May 1^st, 2013 at 6:06pm

Dooley wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 3:07pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 3:02pm:

Swagman wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 10:53am:

Regardless of the merits of the scheme Smithy as advised many times on this forum by me, Rudd and Gillard Labor's buy now and pay later spending sprees, would be, in effect, future income tax increases. Angry

This has now come to fruition. Angry

The levy is required because the Govt since taking office has irresponsibly overspent by $271 Billion and climbing and has consistently failed to balance the budget despite an unpresendented mining boom.

Ironically the interest on this climbing debt (around at least $8 Billion per annum) would come close to covering the cost of the NDIS.

Now the minority that pays the majority of tax has to reach into its pocket yet again to pay the lion's share of Labor's fiscal irresponsibiliy and broken promises. It is a sad and broken record. Sad

IMO the fairest option should a tax increase be required would be to increase the GST to cover not only this scheme but the whole health and education funding shortfalls. This has not been mentioned by any side of politics to my knowledge, not even discussed.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure you will) but the medicare levy is paid by individual income taxpayers and not companies?

Personal income tax payers are a declining breed as a percentage of the population. The baby boomers are retiring in droves and dropping off the list of income tax payers and the compounding burden of payment of Govt is falling upon fewer tax payers. Shocked

One of the reasons the GST (broad based tax) was introduced was due to the aging of the population issue and the problems this would have for the budget. Undecided

Companies don't pay GST either, or at least not in the long run ... they claim it back. It is the individuals or consumers that pay the GST (ie, taxpayers and pensioners and unemployed)

And that is just one of the many many many taxes that companies dont pay __ but they still DEMAND and GET equal status before the LAW in this country.

I say if the (not they, corps aren't a "they") corps want equal representation before the LAW then they should have to take up the same amount of taxation burden. ie pay the same rates of tax a human wage slave does..... and comply with the same moral and ethical obligations - not just the legal obligations that are reluctantly foisted upon them in a crippled half-arsed way so they don't really do anything....... eg the mining tax

lefty wank... nothing new here.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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John Smith

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Re: New NDIS Levy
Reply #20 - May 1^st, 2013 at 6:06pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 6:05pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 3:02pm:

Swagman wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 10:53am:

Regardless of the merits of the scheme Smithy as advised many times on this forum by me, Rudd and Gillard Labor's buy now and pay later spending sprees, would be, in effect, future income tax increases. Angry

This has now come to fruition. Angry

The levy is required because the Govt since taking office has irresponsibly overspent by $271 Billion and climbing and has consistently failed to balance the budget despite an unpresendented mining boom.

Ironically the interest on this climbing debt (around at least $8 Billion per annum) would come close to covering the cost of the NDIS.

Now the minority that pays the majority of tax has to reach into its pocket yet again to pay the lion's share of Labor's fiscal irresponsibiliy and broken promises. It is a sad and broken record. Sad

IMO the fairest option should a tax increase be required would be to increase the GST to cover not only this scheme but the whole health and education funding shortfalls. This has not been mentioned by any side of politics to my knowledge, not even discussed.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure you will) but the medicare levy is paid by individual income taxpayers and not companies?

Personal income tax payers are a declining breed as a percentage of the population. The baby boomers are retiring in droves and dropping off the list of income tax payers and the compounding burden of payment of Govt is falling upon fewer tax payers. Shocked

One of the reasons the GST (broad based tax) was introduced was due to the aging of the population issue and the problems this would have for the budget. Undecided

Companies don't pay GST either, or at least not in the long run ... they claim it back. It is the individuals or consumers that pay the GST (ie, taxpayers and pensioners and unemployed)

that is to avoid the add-on effect. without this, any single product could have GST added on at every stage of manufacture marketing and sale therefore making some products more tax that any other component. GST is the tax that companies dont pay but every owner or employee of said company does.

wrong, GST is the tax that the consumer pays.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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longweekend58

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Re: New NDIS Levy
Reply #21 - May 1^st, 2013 at 6:08pm

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 4:05pm:

Dooley wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 3:07pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 3:02pm:

Swagman wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 10:53am:

Regardless of the merits of the scheme Smithy as advised many times on this forum by me, Rudd and Gillard Labor's buy now and pay later spending sprees, would be, in effect, future income tax increases. Angry

This has now come to fruition. Angry

The levy is required because the Govt since taking office has irresponsibly overspent by $271 Billion and climbing and has consistently failed to balance the budget despite an unpresendented mining boom.

Ironically the interest on this climbing debt (around at least $8 Billion per annum) would come close to covering the cost of the NDIS.

Now the minority that pays the majority of tax has to reach into its pocket yet again to pay the lion's share of Labor's fiscal irresponsibiliy and broken promises. It is a sad and broken record. Sad

IMO the fairest option should a tax increase be required would be to increase the GST to cover not only this scheme but the whole health and education funding shortfalls. This has not been mentioned by any side of politics to my knowledge, not even discussed.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure you will) but the medicare levy is paid by individual income taxpayers and not companies?

Personal income tax payers are a declining breed as a percentage of the population. The baby boomers are retiring in droves and dropping off the list of income tax payers and the compounding burden of payment of Govt is falling upon fewer tax payers. Shocked

One of the reasons the GST (broad based tax) was introduced was due to the aging of the population issue and the problems this would have for the budget. Undecided

Companies don't pay GST either, or at least not in the long run ... they claim it back. It is the individuals or consumers that pay the GST (ie, taxpayers and pensioners and unemployed)

And that is just one of the many many many taxes that companies dont pay __ but they still DEMAND and GET equal status before the LAW in this country.

I say if the (not they, corps aren't a "they") corps want equal representation before the LAW then they should have to take up the same amount of taxation burden. ie pay the same rates of tax a human wage slave does..... and comply with the same moral and ethical obligations - not just the legal obligations that are reluctantly foisted upon them in a crippled half-arsed way so they don't really do anything....... eg the mining tax

I think there should be no difference between companies and a private individual, tax rates should be the same for both, and any liability of the company should fall onto it's board of directors. I'm sick of hearing of companies going bust, subbies and suppliers going broke, and the directors get to start another company in another name from the luxury of his waterfront mansion.

despite the rhetoric, most company failures are nothing at all like that. small business owners lose their house, car and future and have to start again from scratch. Yes, there are som scum that rort the law but thats a different issue.

the real problem with taxing companies the same as individuals is that the tax scales are puny. virtual every company would be paying the top marginal rate. not a lot of point in haveing a marginal system then. you might as well just increase company tax to 47%

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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John Smith

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Re: New NDIS Levy
Reply #22 - May 1^st, 2013 at 6:13pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 6:08pm:

you might as well just increase company tax to 47%

nothing wrong with that. ...

longweekend58 wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 6:08pm:

most company failures are nothing at all like that.

i guess that depends on if you ever worked in the building Industry or not ... do you know it is expected that you will work for a builder who will go bust at some point during your career as a tradie .... and yet the builder rarely loses anything, keeps his money (usually all in his wifes name at this point) and starts again down the road.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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____

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Re: New NDIS Levy
Reply #23 - May 1^st, 2013 at 6:13pm

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 10:05am:

Gillard has announced a levy of .5% to fund the NDIS scheme .

http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/latest/16957956/gillard-set-to-announce-...

I personally don't mind paying a little extra for this type of service, especially if it can help a lot of my opponents on this forum, who will most likely complain about it.

How about ALP repairing the MMRT so not only individual will pay, our ore can also fund the disabled.

And while we are at it, lets decrease future Australians with disabilities by closing down Labor's concentration camp on Manus.

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John Smith

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Re: New NDIS Levy
Reply #24 - May 1^st, 2013 at 6:18pm

____ wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 6:13pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 10:05am:

Gillard has announced a levy of .5% to fund the NDIS scheme .

http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/latest/16957956/gillard-set-to-announce-...

I personally don't mind paying a little extra for this type of service, especially if it can help a lot of my opponents on this forum, who will most likely complain about it.

How about ALP repairing the MMRT so not only individual will pay, our ore can also fund the disabled.

And while we are at it, lets decrease future Australians with disabilities by closing down Labor's concentration camp on Manus.

Sure, I'd be in that,

by the way, I wasn't paying attention at the time, so maybe you can provide an answer, did the greens support the original propsal for the MMRT put forward by labor?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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____

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Australia
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Re: New NDIS Levy
Reply #25 - May 1^st, 2013 at 6:26pm

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 6:18pm:

____ wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 6:13pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 10:05am:

Gillard has announced a levy of .5% to fund the NDIS scheme .

http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/latest/16957956/gillard-set-to-announce-...

I personally don't mind paying a little extra for this type of service, especially if it can help a lot of my opponents on this forum, who will most likely complain about it.

How about ALP repairing the MMRT so not only individual will pay, our ore can also fund the disabled.

And while we are at it, lets decrease future Australians with disabilities by closing down Labor's concentration camp on Manus.

Sure, I'd be in that,

by the way, I wasn't paying attention at the time, so maybe you can provide an answer, did the greens support the original propsal for the MMRT put forward by labor?

The Australian Greens made a last ditch bid have the tax rate increased to 40 per cent.

Another Greens amendment to apply the tax to gold, uranium and rare earth minerals.

Yes we passed an inferior MRRT, yet we haven't given up on fixing Labor's mistakes.

If Labor had listened to the Greens, Labor's black hole would not be so so deep and the NDIS would not have been such a hard sell.

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Swagman

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Re: New NDIS Levy
Reply #26 - May 1^st, 2013 at 7:23pm

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 5:04pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 5:01pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 4:56pm:

Swagman wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 4:19pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 3:02pm:

Companies don't pay GST either, or at least not in the long run ... they claim it back. It is the individuals or consumers that pay the GST (ie, taxpayers and pensioners and unemployed)

Yes there is that but they won't pay Gillard's levy either.

Don't forget pros, pimps, drug dealers, hawkers, buskers, O/S tourists pay the GST too....

you will never cover everybody .. there is always an element that misses out ... Pre GST , if I quoted $3000 to paint a house (an example that does not reflect any deals I may or may not have made), I would offer a discount of $300 for cash (off the books), after GST was introduced, I still charged $3000 , but this time I would offer to forget the GST for a cash deal. Thanks Howard for giving me an option to discounting. I got to pretend I was offering a discount, without really offering one. Increasing the GST only makes it more appealing to make more off the book deals. And the people most likely to take advantage of the off the book deals are pros, pimps, drug dealers, hawkers, buskers, O/S tourists .

the point was that you still ahve to buy paint and other items and GST is captured at that point. There will always be maggots like you seeking to rip off the system but GST reduces your options.

no it is not, the GST payed on that paint will be written off for another job and the GST claimed back anyway.

By the way, what makes you think I give a bugger what you think??

When you spend your cash you will pay the GST though like everyone else. On those items that are not exempt that is.

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John Smith

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Re: New NDIS Levy
Reply #27 - May 1^st, 2013 at 7:39pm

____ wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 6:26pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 6:18pm:

____ wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 6:13pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 10:05am:

Gillard has announced a levy of .5% to fund the NDIS scheme .

http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/latest/16957956/gillard-set-to-announce-...

I personally don't mind paying a little extra for this type of service, especially if it can help a lot of my opponents on this forum, who will most likely complain about it.

How about ALP repairing the MMRT so not only individual will pay, our ore can also fund the disabled.

And while we are at it, lets decrease future Australians with disabilities by closing down Labor's concentration camp on Manus.

Sure, I'd be in that,

by the way, I wasn't paying attention at the time, so maybe you can provide an answer, did the greens support the original propsal for the MMRT put forward by labor?

The Australian Greens made a last ditch bid have the tax rate increased to 40 per cent.

Another Greens amendment to apply the tax to gold, uranium and rare earth minerals.

Yes we passed an inferior MRRT, yet we haven't given up on fixing Labor's mistakes.

If Labor had listened to the Greens, Labor's black hole would not be so so deep and the NDIS would not have been such a hard sell.

you didn't answer the question .... I don't care about what the greens wanted, I asked if they supported labors original bill?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: New NDIS Levy
Reply #28 - May 1^st, 2013 at 7:41pm

Swagman wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 7:23pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 5:04pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 5:01pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 4:56pm:

Swagman wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 4:19pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 3:02pm:

Companies don't pay GST either, or at least not in the long run ... they claim it back. It is the individuals or consumers that pay the GST (ie, taxpayers and pensioners and unemployed)

Yes there is that but they won't pay Gillard's levy either.

Don't forget pros, pimps, drug dealers, hawkers, buskers, O/S tourists pay the GST too....

you will never cover everybody .. there is always an element that misses out ... Pre GST , if I quoted $3000 to paint a house (an example that does not reflect any deals I may or may not have made), I would offer a discount of $300 for cash (off the books), after GST was introduced, I still charged $3000 , but this time I would offer to forget the GST for a cash deal. Thanks Howard for giving me an option to discounting. I got to pretend I was offering a discount, without really offering one. Increasing the GST only makes it more appealing to make more off the book deals. And the people most likely to take advantage of the off the book deals are pros, pimps, drug dealers, hawkers, buskers, O/S tourists .

the point was that you still ahve to buy paint and other items and GST is captured at that point. There will always be maggots like you seeking to rip off the system but GST reduces your options.

no it is not, the GST payed on that paint will be written off for another job and the GST claimed back anyway.

By the way, what makes you think I give a bugger what you think??

When you spend your cash you will pay the GST though like everyone else. On those items that are not exempt that is.

yes but thats me personally, not the company.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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____

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Posts: 33410
Australia
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Re: New NDIS Levy
Reply #29 - May 1^st, 2013 at 7:52pm

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 7:39pm:

____ wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 6:26pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 6:18pm:

____ wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 6:13pm:

John Smith wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 10:05am:

Gillard has announced a levy of .5% to fund the NDIS scheme .

http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/latest/16957956/gillard-set-to-announce-...

I personally don't mind paying a little extra for this type of service, especially if it can help a lot of my opponents on this forum, who will most likely complain about it.

How about ALP repairing the MMRT so not only individual will pay, our ore can also fund the disabled.

And while we are at it, lets decrease future Australians with disabilities by closing down Labor's concentration camp on Manus.

Sure, I'd be in that,

by the way, I wasn't paying attention at the time, so maybe you can provide an answer, did the greens support the original propsal for the MMRT put forward by labor?

The Australian Greens made a last ditch bid have the tax rate increased to 40 per cent.

Another Greens amendment to apply the tax to gold, uranium and rare earth minerals.

Yes we passed an inferior MRRT, yet we haven't given up on fixing Labor's mistakes.

If Labor had listened to the Greens, Labor's black hole would not be so so deep and the NDIS would not have been such a hard sell.

you didn't answer the question .... I don't care about what the greens wanted, I asked if they supported labors original bill?

We voted for it in it's weak ALP form so it can be fixed afterwards.

Why is Labor refusing to bring NDIS to parliament now since it will be passed before the election.

Is Labor hiding behind the disabled, hoping the election whack against them may not be so hard.

If so, Labor is gutless.

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