Australian Politics Forum - Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?

freediver

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #60 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:00pm

namnugenot wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:57pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:46pm:

namnugenot wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:40pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:35pm:

Although as was the case at the last election you can lie your ar$e off with every intention of doing the exact opposite

Is that what you think happened?

That is exactly what happened.

No it isn't. Not on this planet.

"There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead blah, blah, blah..."
Which planet are you on by the way FD?

It was the "every intention" bit I was pulling you up on. Do you honestly think Gillard intended to form a minority government or that this had no impact on the outcome?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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MOTR

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #61 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:05pm

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:00pm:

namnugenot wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:57pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:46pm:

namnugenot wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:40pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:35pm:

Although as was the case at the last election you can lie your ar$e off with every intention of doing the exact opposite

Is that what you think happened?

That is exactly what happened.

No it isn't. Not on this planet.

"There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead blah, blah, blah..."
Which planet are you on by the way FD?

It was the "every intention" bit I was pulling you up on. Do you honestly think Gillard intended to form a minority government or that this had no impact on the outcome?

Her intention was clearly to introduce an ETS. It was Labor Party policy and not once did she indicate that she was not going to deliver on that commitment.

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« Last Edit: Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:21pm by MOTR »

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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namnugenot

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #62 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:11pm

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:00pm:

namnugenot wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:57pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:46pm:

namnugenot wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:40pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:35pm:

Although as was the case at the last election you can lie your ar$e off with every intention of doing the exact opposite

Is that what you think happened?

That is exactly what happened.

No it isn't. Not on this planet.

"There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead blah, blah, blah..."
Which planet are you on by the way FD?

It was the "every intention" bit I was pulling you up on. Do you honestly think Gillard intended to form a minority government or that this had no impact on the outcome?

Minority government is irrelevant...she is still PM and heads up the government. Or are you saying she spinelessly followed what the Greens wanted? Wasn't that the argument against doing what was popular or democratic earlier in the thread?

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #63 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:25pm

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:35pm:

Quote:

Although as was the case at the last election you can lie your ar$e off with every intention of doing the exact opposite

Is that what you think happened?

Quote:

when presented with the statement that democracy is the final arbiter of government you said NO.

OK I'll demonstrate for you. This is what it looks like when you use what people actually say rather than inventing you own fantasy debate:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 5:55pm:

Quote:

garbage. godwins law is about identifying retards who have to use hitler as an argument because they lack the intellectual mettle to put a genuine argument forward. if you want to make a coherent argument as to why democracy should be subverted (which ironically is exactly what hitler did) then make one.

My argument is that democracy is not above all else and should never be seen that way.

Also, I have no respect for spineless poll following politicians or their cheerleaders.

Quote:

so in case I have misunderstood you can you categorically state whether or not you believe in democratic rule by the majority as the final arbiter of how government should operate?

It is not the only arbiter. But this is getting a long way from the carbon tax debate. In case you are somehow unaware, we arrived at the carbon tax democratically.

lengthy refusal to answer the question? so you admit that you support a mechanism ABOVE democracy? Im a little surprised at you FD. I have known for sometime that you understanding of democracy was flawed but I was unaware that you actually dont really believe in its primacy in the making or law in our society

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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namnugenot

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #64 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:26pm

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:05pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:00pm:

namnugenot wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:57pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:46pm:

namnugenot wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:40pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:35pm:

Although as was the case at the last election you can lie your ar$e off with every intention of doing the exact opposite

Is that what you think happened?

That is exactly what happened.

No it isn't. Not on this planet.

"There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead blah, blah, blah..."
Which planet are you on by the way FD?

It was the "every intention" bit I was pulling you up on. Do you honestly think Gillard intended to form a minority government or that this had no impact on the outcome?

Her intentions were clearly to introduce an EST. It was Labor Party policy and not once did she indicate that she was not going to deliver on that commitment.

She introduced a tax she said she absolutely and emphatically wouldn't (whether you agree with it or not)...end of story. Come September she is going to get punished for that and if you think that any promises or guarantees about policy or what she may or may not plan to do announced before then is not going to be devalued on that basis you don't have a clue.

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #65 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:27pm

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:37pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:14pm:

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:11pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:10pm:

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:08pm:

Was Abbott duty bound to vote for the Malaysian solution.

to vote for a policy that was not his and which he fundamentally and morally disagreed with? no. if there had been an election mandate for the policy that would be different.

What about an EST. Was Abbott duty bound to support an EST.

when you answer my question about labors obligation to repeal a CT then I will answer yours. IM guessing you will deflect. But at elast you are not suggesting a dictatorship as FD is.

I think you have your answer.

unless i miss something, you dont believe labor has any obligation whatsoever to respect the clearly expressed wishes of the voting public. how UNsurprising.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #66 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:29pm

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:44pm:

If you follow longweekend's "logic" Opposition parties should vote for all Government policies.

In fact, Opposition MPs shouldn't bother turning up to Parliament all, just take three years' paid holiday.

another leftie who unsurprisingly has little concept of or respect for the democratic process. the question at hand is 'should labor repeal the CT if the substantial majority of australians want them to and it is expressed at an election'?

care to give us your opinion?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #67 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:31pm

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:59pm:

On the issue of democracy, here is a thread where Longy, in addition to demonstrating comprehension problems, rejects outright an idea that would give us a democracy that truly respects the will of the majority.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1358051073/75

even more pathetic that usual. this is a thread in which you have clearly expressed that democracy - ie the will of the people - is not the final arbiter of what should happen. in addition you say that there is a higher arbiter but you decline to say what that is. Your understanding of democracy is pitiful and your support for undemocratic rule is a disgrace.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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namnugenot

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #68 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:32pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:27pm:

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:37pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:14pm:

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:11pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:10pm:

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:08pm:

Was Abbott duty bound to vote for the Malaysian solution.

to vote for a policy that was not his and which he fundamentally and morally disagreed with? no. if there had been an election mandate for the policy that would be different.

What about an EST. Was Abbott duty bound to support an EST.

when you answer my question about labors obligation to repeal a CT then I will answer yours. IM guessing you will deflect. But at elast you are not suggesting a dictatorship as FD is.

I think you have your answer.

unless i miss something, you dont believe labor has any obligation whatsoever to respect the clearly expressed wishes of the voting public. how UNsurprising.

Nice quote down the bottom longie...I hope Skip didn't put his house on em...

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freediver

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #69 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:32pm

Quote:

Minority government is irrelevant...she is still PM and heads up the government. Or are you saying she spinelessly followed what the Greens wanted?

I am saying that you are wrong that she had every intention of performing an embarrassing back flip. It really is that simple. You are wrong.

Quote:

so you admit that you support a mechanism ABOVE democracy?

I didn't say anything about a mechanism. Liberty is not a machine.

Quote:

I have known for sometime that you understanding of democracy was flawed

Longy it was you who struggled with the basics, and you are struggling again here. Here it is again for you:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1358051073/75

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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miketrees Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6490 Gender:	Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax? Reply #70 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:33pm I think a better idea than scrapping the tax would be to implement it properly, that is tax any imports that have not had a verifiable carbon tax levied at the source of the import. That might make the playing field a bit more level, and make the tax actually work.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51808 At my desk.	Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax? Reply #71 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:38pm There are a lot of other people making the same suggestion. But you need to have international cooperation for that to work.
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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #72 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:39pm

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:32pm:

Quote:

Minority government is irrelevant...she is still PM and heads up the government. Or are you saying she spinelessly followed what the Greens wanted?

I am saying that you are wrong that she had every intention of performing an embarrassing back flip. It really is that simple. You are wrong.

Quote:

so you admit that you support a mechanism ABOVE democracy?

I didn't say anything about a mechanism. Liberty is not a machine.

Quote:

I have known for sometime that you understanding of democracy was flawed

Longy it was you who struggled with the basics, and you are struggling again here. Here it is again for you:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1358051073/75

Liberty is just a word. without a construct to give it power and force, it is still just a word. Democracy grants that while whatever system you support, does not. It is liberty that says that no government has the right to impose policies on the people that the majority want. That is dictatorship. Liberty does not ask if the policy is right or wrong. it says that the will of the majority is the ONLY arbiter. It seems that the genuine concept of majority rule eludes or the resposibilities that go with it.

you have set to tell us what your opinion is on whether or not labor should repeal the CT in the face of an overwhelming and undeniable mandate. and if a massive electoral win is not enough would a plebiscite asking that very question suit you? you are the one that champions direct democracy so would DD voting to be rid of the CT be okay with you?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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John Smith

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #73 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:41pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 5:50pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 5:45pm:

I think labor should take a leaf out of the libs rule book regarding asylum seekers ...

'we had the best way to combat carbon emmissions and we don't see why we should agree to anything less'.

ah the old leftist doctrine: subvert democracy and the rule of law at every opportunity.

so you agree the libs under Howard are more leftist than labor?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax? Reply #74 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:42pm freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:38pm: There are a lot of other people making the same suggestion. But you need to have international cooperation for that to work. just so long as we don't listen to actual voters, right? their opinion does not entitle them to a say in whether or not a CT is repealed?
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