Australian Politics Forum - Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?

longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #135 - Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 12:15pm

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:35pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:29pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:44pm:

If you follow longweekend's "logic" Opposition parties should vote for all Government policies.

In fact, Opposition MPs shouldn't bother turning up to Parliament all, just take three years' paid holiday.

another leftie who unsurprisingly has little concept of or respect for the democratic process. the question at hand is 'should labor repeal the CT if the substantial majority of australians want them to and it is expressed at an election'?

care to give us your opinion?

Wow, you do a great line in sweeping generalisations! All "lefties" think alike, walk alike, even look alike, right?

Saves you from having to think logically, which is good, because you suck at it.

I would be happy to give my opinion. Here it is.

So long as Labor goes into the election promising to retain the carbon tax, then it should remain faithful to its voters and vote against repeal.

If there is anything of this opinion you find hard to understand, just let me know and I'll try to help you out.

thanks for actually giving a cogent opinion base on the OP instead of the typical deflection. However, it is also clear that you dont value the concept of the mandate at all. But while that is your right does that not also mean that you dont think parties should value the opinions of the public unless they agree with them? Taking it only a little further isnt that a justification for breaking promise etc?

I'd like to hear more on why you think a massive mandate given by the people at an election can be ignored by a party that has just been hammered, Is that not a fundamental breach of democracy.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #136 - Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 12:21pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 12:15pm:

However, it is also clear that you dont value the concept of the mandate at all.

The only time a mandate seems to matter, in fact the only time a mandate is achieved is when the coalition wins an election.
Why the hell should Labor respect a mandate when Rudd went to the polls promising an ETS, he won, Turnbull was respecting that "MANDATE" & Good old Tony came along, screwed Malcolm & gave a big "bugger You" to the Australian voting public.
And so we are where we are today.

So NO, in fact I reckon Labor should adopt Tony Opposition's line.
Oppose EVERYTHING, TRASH EVERYTHING, BUGGER EVERYTHING & EVERYONE, SOOK until Government is achieved.

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REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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Dnarever

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #137 - Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 12:22pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 12:15pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:35pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:29pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:44pm:

If you follow longweekend's "logic" Opposition parties should vote for all Government policies.

In fact, Opposition MPs shouldn't bother turning up to Parliament all, just take three years' paid holiday.

another leftie who unsurprisingly has little concept of or respect for the democratic process. the question at hand is 'should labor repeal the CT if the substantial majority of australians want them to and it is expressed at an election'?

care to give us your opinion?

Wow, you do a great line in sweeping generalisations! All "lefties" think alike, walk alike, even look alike, right?

Saves you from having to think logically, which is good, because you suck at it.

I would be happy to give my opinion. Here it is.

So long as Labor goes into the election promising to retain the carbon tax, then it should remain faithful to its voters and vote against repeal.

If there is anything of this opinion you find hard to understand, just let me know and I'll try to help you out.

thanks for actually giving a cogent opinion base on the OP instead of the typical deflection. However, it is also clear that you dont value the concept of the mandate at all. But while that is your right does that not also mean that you dont think parties should value the opinions of the public unless they agree with them? Taking it only a little further isnt that a justification for breaking promise etc?

I'd like to hear more on why you think a massive mandate given by the people at an election can be ignored by a party that has just been hammered, Is that not a fundamental breach of democracy.

why you think a massive mandate given by the people at an election can be ignored

I don't recall you being outraged by Abbotts performance in opposing the Rudd ETS where there was a clear and overwhelming mandate from the 2007 election.

It seems that some mandates require support but others don't.

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Peter Freedman

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #138 - Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 2:37pm

Longweekend, the mandate to which you refer is given to the party that wins the election, right?

It is up to that party to exercise that mandate. Where they cannot, for whatever reason, they need to explain that to the nation.

Where an Opposition party agrees with a government, then it can use its votes to assist the government to exercise its mandate.

Where they do not support a government policy, then the Opposition party is under no obligation to support the government. Their obligation is to those whose votes they won and who expect them to be true to their election policy.

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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #139 - Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 4:24pm

Dnarever wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 12:22pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 12:15pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:35pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:29pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:44pm:

If you follow longweekend's "logic" Opposition parties should vote for all Government policies.

In fact, Opposition MPs shouldn't bother turning up to Parliament all, just take three years' paid holiday.

another leftie who unsurprisingly has little concept of or respect for the democratic process. the question at hand is 'should labor repeal the CT if the substantial majority of australians want them to and it is expressed at an election'?

care to give us your opinion?

Wow, you do a great line in sweeping generalisations! All "lefties" think alike, walk alike, even look alike, right?

Saves you from having to think logically, which is good, because you suck at it.

I would be happy to give my opinion. Here it is.

So long as Labor goes into the election promising to retain the carbon tax, then it should remain faithful to its voters and vote against repeal.

If there is anything of this opinion you find hard to understand, just let me know and I'll try to help you out.

thanks for actually giving a cogent opinion base on the OP instead of the typical deflection. However, it is also clear that you dont value the concept of the mandate at all. But while that is your right does that not also mean that you dont think parties should value the opinions of the public unless they agree with them? Taking it only a little further isnt that a justification for breaking promise etc?

I'd like to hear more on why you think a massive mandate given by the people at an election can be ignored by a party that has just been hammered, Is that not a fundamental breach of democracy.

why you think a massive mandate given by the people at an election can be ignored

I don't recall you being outraged by Abbotts performance in opposing the Rudd ETS where there was a clear and overwhelming mandate from the 2007 election.

It seems that some mandates require support but others don't.

Do you want a debate on what is a mandate? Simply winning and election is not necessarily a mandate. it is more complex than that. So do you want to discuss, debate and generally try and work out what a mandate is or are we just going to throw a toddler-style hissy fit about it?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #140 - Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 4:27pm

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 2:37pm:

Longweekend, the mandate to which you refer is given to the party that wins the election, right?

It is up to that party to exercise that mandate. Where they cannot, for whatever reason, they need to explain that to the nation.

Where an Opposition party agrees with a government, then it can use its votes to assist the government to exercise its mandate.

Where they do not support a government policy, then the Opposition party is under no obligation to support the government. Their obligation is to those whose votes they won and who expect them to be true to their election policy.

You really don't know what a mandate is. it is an expressed wish given to the government in an undeniable manner that SHOULD trump opposition even if the oppositions posesses the capability to thwart it. It is MORALITY vs LEGALITY. it is a higher standard.

no wonder a leftie doesnt get it LOL!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax? Reply #141 - Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 4:29pm Smithy hit the nail on the head, Rudd had a mandate and Abbott ignored it ,so bugger phony tony Labor should stick to their guns and whine like little bitches for three years, seems to have worked for phony tony and the solid gold dance troupe.
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John Smith

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #142 - Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 4:35pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 4:27pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 2:37pm:

Longweekend, the mandate to which you refer is given to the party that wins the election, right?

It is up to that party to exercise that mandate. Where they cannot, for whatever reason, they need to explain that to the nation.

Where an Opposition party agrees with a government, then it can use its votes to assist the government to exercise its mandate.

Where they do not support a government policy, then the Opposition party is under no obligation to support the government. Their obligation is to those whose votes they won and who expect them to be true to their election policy.

You really don't know what a mandate is. it is an expressed wish given to the government in an undeniable manner that SHOULD trump opposition even if the oppositions posesses the capability to thwart it. It is MORALITY vs LEGALITY. it is a higher standard.

no wonder a leftie doesnt get it LOL!

rubbish ... if I vote for labor it's because I want labor to do what they promise prior to the election ... if they lose the election I still have no desire to (in this case) revoke the carbon tax .. if I had wanted that i would have voted lib ..

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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Dnarever

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #143 - Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 4:52pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 4:24pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 12:22pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 12:15pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:35pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:29pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:44pm:

If you follow longweekend's "logic" Opposition parties should vote for all Government policies.

In fact, Opposition MPs shouldn't bother turning up to Parliament all, just take three years' paid holiday.

another leftie who unsurprisingly has little concept of or respect for the democratic process. the question at hand is 'should labor repeal the CT if the substantial majority of australians want them to and it is expressed at an election'?

care to give us your opinion?

Wow, you do a great line in sweeping generalisations! All "lefties" think alike, walk alike, even look alike, right?

Saves you from having to think logically, which is good, because you suck at it.

I would be happy to give my opinion. Here it is.

So long as Labor goes into the election promising to retain the carbon tax, then it should remain faithful to its voters and vote against repeal.

If there is anything of this opinion you find hard to understand, just let me know and I'll try to help you out.

thanks for actually giving a cogent opinion base on the OP instead of the typical deflection. However, it is also clear that you dont value the concept of the mandate at all. But while that is your right does that not also mean that you dont think parties should value the opinions of the public unless they agree with them? Taking it only a little further isnt that a justification for breaking promise etc?

I'd like to hear more on why you think a massive mandate given by the people at an election can be ignored by a party that has just been hammered, Is that not a fundamental breach of democracy.

why you think a massive mandate given by the people at an election can be ignored

I don't recall you being outraged by Abbotts performance in opposing the Rudd ETS where there was a clear and overwhelming mandate from the 2007 election.

It seems that some mandates require support but others don't.

Do you want a debate on what is a mandate? Simply winning and election is not necessarily a mandate. it is more complex than that. So do you want to discuss, debate and generally try and work out what a mandate is or are we just going to throw a toddler-style hissy fit about it?

Do you want a debate on what is a mandate? Simply winning and election is not necessarily a mandate. it is more complex than that. So do you want to discuss

With the GST a mandate was claimed but the intention of the voters is shown to have been very different.

Another case of your selective moral stands.

Both parties going to an election asking to implement an ETS is no mandate.

But one party going for a GST where there is a huge campaign in the senate saying it can be blocked there and the majority of the vote clearly going against it and there is a mandate even with under 50% of the vote and the need of a third party to commit suicide to get it through.

Now we have a pre claim on a mandate which is not likely to eventuate.

I think I see the patern - if its for the Liberals it is a mandate and if not its no mandate.

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Peter Freedman

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #144 - Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 4:56pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 4:27pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 2:37pm:

Longweekend, the mandate to which you refer is given to the party that wins the election, right?

It is up to that party to exercise that mandate. Where they cannot, for whatever reason, they need to explain that to the nation.

Where an Opposition party agrees with a government, then it can use its votes to assist the government to exercise its mandate.

Where they do not support a government policy, then the Opposition party is under no obligation to support the government. Their obligation is to those whose votes they won and who expect them to be true to their election policy.

You really don't know what a mandate is. it is an expressed wish given to the government in an undeniable manner that SHOULD trump opposition even if the oppositions posesses the capability to thwart it. It is MORALITY vs LEGALITY. it is a higher standard.

no wonder a leftie doesnt get it LOL!

Your sweeping generalisations yet again! Can't you play a different tune, this one is getting boooooring.

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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.

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red baron

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #145 - Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 6:53pm

The Carbon Tax stinks as much as the carcass of that fish Freediver is holding, only three days later.

It was the tax no one wanted, the tax Julia Gillard said without doubt she would not bring in.

It has hurt business big time and has helped hundreds of Australian Businesses close their doors.

It has help boost the cost of Energy across the board in a climate where people are really struggling to make ends meet. I'm talking the average worker here, the bread and butter of the Country.

It is an an obscene tax that accomplishes nothing but hurt to the Australian people and IT WILL AND MUST GO!

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John Smith

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #146 - Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 6:58pm

red baron wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 6:53pm:

The Carbon Tax stinks as much as the carcass of that fish Freediver is holding, only three days later.

It was the tax no one wanted, the tax Julia Gillard said without doubt she would not bring in.

It has hurt business big time and has helped hundreds of Australian Businesses close their doors.

It has help boost the cost of Energy across the board in a climate where people are really struggling to make ends meet. I'm talking the average worker here, the bread and butter of the Country.

It is an an obscene tax that accomplishes nothing but hurt to the Australian people and IT WILL AND MUST GO!

I'm sure you have evidence to support your claims ... as a former cop you would understand that without evidence it's all bullsh1t .

Hundreds of busiensses closed the doors because of the carbon tax?? Cheesy

name 10 .

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Our esteemed leader:
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Dnarever

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #147 - Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 6:58pm

red baron wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 6:53pm:

The Carbon Tax stinks as much as the carcass of that fish Freediver is holding, only three days later.

It was the tax no one wanted, the tax Julia Gillard said without doubt she would not bring in.

It has hurt business big time and has helped hundreds of Australian Businesses close their doors.

It has help boost the cost of Energy across the board in a climate where people are really struggling to make ends meet. I'm talking the average worker here, the bread and butter of the Country.

It is an an obscene tax that accomplishes nothing but hurt to the Australian people and IT WILL AND MUST GO!

It was the tax that nobody will ever pay.

It was the tax that was fully compensated for.

It has hurt business big time and has helped hundreds of Australian Businesses close their doors.

What a load of rubbish - almost nobody even noticed it.

I'm talking the average worker here The one who was either fully compensated or over compensated.

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51808 At my desk.	Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax? Reply #148 - Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 7:38pm Quote: Do you want a debate on what is a mandate? Longy last I heard you were afraid to have that debate. Apparently you prefer the simple minded insistence that an election is a referendum on a single issue.
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longweekend58

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #149 - Apr 3^rd, 2013 at 10:29am

freediver wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 7:38pm:

Quote:

Do you want a debate on what is a mandate?

Longy last I heard you were afraid to have that debate. Apparently you prefer the simple minded insistence that an election is a referendum on a single issue.

im quite happy to have the debate but I fear it might be beyond you because the question is complex and not at all likely to get full agreement. When you think there is a mandate for the carbon tax then you are unlikely to be able to comprehend and argument based on a majority viewpoint..

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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