Australian Politics Forum - Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?

freediver

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #105 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:22am

Quote:

the question is whether or not labor has a moral right to reject the wishes of the people in not repealing the CT. You have declined to answer that question - a matter or principle.

It is my view that parties should reflect the wishes of their supporters, reflect what they stand for and do what they think is right. Not to try to second guess democracy. Election time is when they get judged on their performance and if necessary, corrected. Any time a party rejects their own policy due to an obvious mandate, this is a calculated move to avoid bleeding more votes, and a necessary one for the survival of the party in cases where they are in a position to block the change in the senate, but would lose even worse at the next election if they did so.

I have no qualms about supporting Labor's carbon tax and will be equally supportive of Tony Abbott when he does a backflip and keeps the tax. That we, way keep the tax, and all three parties get to blame each other for it. Except maybe the Greens. They would probably be willing to take credit for it. I am looking forward this election to finally having a public debate on the economics of climate change. We should have done this a long time ago.

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Maqqa

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #106 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:26am

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:22am:

Quote:

the question is whether or not labor has a moral right to reject the wishes of the people in not repealing the CT. You have declined to answer that question - a matter or principle.

It is my view that parties should reflect the wishes of their supporters, reflect what they stand for and do what they think is right. Not to try to second guess democracy. Election time is when they get judged on their performance and if necessary, corrected. Any time a party rejects their own policy due to an obvious mandate, this is a calculated move to avoid bleeding more votes, and a necessary one for the survival of the party in cases where they are in a position to block the change in the senate, but would lose even worse at the next election if they did so.

I have no qualms about supporting Labor's carbon tax and will be equally supportive of Tony Abbott when he does a backflip and keeps the tax. That we, way keep the tax, and all three parties get to blame each other for it. Except maybe the Greens. They would probably be willing to take credit for it. I am looking forward this election to finally having a public debate on the economics of climate change. We should have done this a long time ago.

How can you when you don't even understand and/or acknowledge the existence and impact of the Kyoto penalties?

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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John Smith

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #107 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:44am

Maqqa wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:26am:

freediver wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:22am:

Quote:

the question is whether or not labor has a moral right to reject the wishes of the people in not repealing the CT. You have declined to answer that question - a matter or principle.

It is my view that parties should reflect the wishes of their supporters, reflect what they stand for and do what they think is right. Not to try to second guess democracy. Election time is when they get judged on their performance and if necessary, corrected. Any time a party rejects their own policy due to an obvious mandate, this is a calculated move to avoid bleeding more votes, and a necessary one for the survival of the party in cases where they are in a position to block the change in the senate, but would lose even worse at the next election if they did so.

I have no qualms about supporting Labor's carbon tax and will be equally supportive of Tony Abbott when he does a backflip and keeps the tax. That we, way keep the tax, and all three parties get to blame each other for it. Except maybe the Greens. They would probably be willing to take credit for it. I am looking forward this election to finally having a public debate on the economics of climate change. We should have done this a long time ago.

How can you when you don't even understand and/or acknowledge the existence and impact of the Kyoto penalties?

this is Gumpy's little brainstorm re carbon tax .. the Kyoto agreement ... if Abbot stands by his beliefs he can pull out of Kyoto, we wouldn't be the first country to do so ... no one can make him pay the penalties .... Abbotts problem is that he wants it both ways

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax? Reply #108 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:46am Kyoto. China emissions increases were FIVE TIMES that of the Kyoto countries' reductions added together. In short - FAIL So why did we sign it again??
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78305 Gender:	Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax? Reply #109 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:48am Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:46am: Kyoto. China emissions increases were FIVE TIMES that of the Kyoto countries' reductions added together. In short - FAIL So why did we sign it again?? its what the public wanted .... are you suggesting the govt. ignore the voters wishes?
Back to top	Our esteemed leader: I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus. IP Logged

Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #110 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:51am

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:48am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:46am:

Kyoto.

China emissions increases were FIVE TIMES that of the Kyoto countries' reductions added together.

In short -

FAIL

So why did we sign it again?? Shocked

its what the public wanted .... are you suggesting the govt. ignore the voters wishes?

Strange, I was still on the Australian electoral roll then.
I don't recall the question "Should we sign the Kyoto Treaty?"

Maybe I was in England that day....

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Maqqa

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #111 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 9:05am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:51am:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:48am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:46am:

Kyoto.

China emissions increases were FIVE TIMES that of the Kyoto countries' reductions added together.

In short -

FAIL

So why did we sign it again?? Shocked

its what the public wanted .... are you suggesting the govt. ignore the voters wishes?

Strange, I was still on the Australian electoral roll then.
I don't recall the question "Should we sign the Kyoto Treaty?"

Maybe I was in England that day....

30% penalty and Labor won't tell us about it

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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John Smith

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #112 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 9:06am

Maqqa wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 9:05am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:51am:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:48am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:46am:

Kyoto.

China emissions increases were FIVE TIMES that of the Kyoto countries' reductions added together.

In short -

FAIL

So why did we sign it again?? Shocked

its what the public wanted .... are you suggesting the govt. ignore the voters wishes?

Strange, I was still on the Australian electoral roll then.
I don't recall the question "Should we sign the Kyoto Treaty?"

Maybe I was in England that day....

30% penalty and Labor won't tell us about it

are you suggesting it's some sort of secret?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #113 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 9:07am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:51am:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:48am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:46am:

Kyoto.

China emissions increases were FIVE TIMES that of the Kyoto countries' reductions added together.

In short -

FAIL

So why did we sign it again?? Shocked

its what the public wanted .... are you suggesting the govt. ignore the voters wishes?

Strange, I was still on the Australian electoral roll then.
I don't recall the question "Should we sign the Kyoto Treaty?"

Maybe I was in England that day....

and once again you prove your stupidity.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000

Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #114 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 9:23am

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 9:06am:

Maqqa wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 9:05am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:51am:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:48am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:46am:

Kyoto.

China emissions increases were FIVE TIMES that of the Kyoto countries' reductions added together.

In short -

FAIL

So why did we sign it again?? Shocked

its what the public wanted .... are you suggesting the govt. ignore the voters wishes?

Strange, I was still on the Australian electoral roll then.
I don't recall the question "Should we sign the Kyoto Treaty?"

Maybe I was in England that day....

30% penalty and Labor won't tell us about it

are you suggesting it's some sort of secret?

so you want the 30% penalty?

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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John Smith

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #115 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 10:14am

Maqqa wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 9:23am:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 9:06am:

Maqqa wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 9:05am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:51am:

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:48am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:46am:

Kyoto.

China emissions increases were FIVE TIMES that of the Kyoto countries' reductions added together.

In short -

FAIL

So why did we sign it again?? Shocked

its what the public wanted .... are you suggesting the govt. ignore the voters wishes?

Strange, I was still on the Australian electoral roll then.
I don't recall the question "Should we sign the Kyoto Treaty?"

Maybe I was in England that day....

30% penalty and Labor won't tell us about it

are you suggesting it's some sort of secret?

so you want the 30% penalty?

no .. I want them to meet the targets . You are the one opposed to the tax, OK fine do it your way then stop .. pull out of kyoto and you won't need to wrry about the penatly that isn't really a penalty

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Dnarever

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #116 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 10:37am

namnugenot wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:11pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 7:00pm:

namnugenot wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:57pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:46pm:

namnugenot wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:40pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 6:35pm:

Although as was the case at the last election you can lie your ar$e off with every intention of doing the exact opposite

Is that what you think happened?

That is exactly what happened.

No it isn't. Not on this planet.

"There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead blah, blah, blah..."
Which planet are you on by the way FD?

It was the "every intention" bit I was pulling you up on. Do you honestly think Gillard intended to form a minority government or that this had no impact on the outcome?

Minority government is irrelevant...she is still PM and heads up the government. Or are you saying she spinelessly followed what the Greens wanted? Wasn't that the argument against doing what was popular or democratic earlier in the thread?

Any argument that Gillard intended to introduce a Tax at the time she said she wouldn't is ridiculous. Fact is that she was arguing weeks after the election that a fixed price was not a tax.

The whole thing is not much more than a 3 year media beat up. While it can technically be called a tax it is the most pathetic tax I have ever seen, A tax where nobody pays any tax, a tax where the tax man gets nothing.

While the commitment was technically broken it was clearly unintentional and had little or no impact.

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Maqqa

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #117 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:02am

Dnarever wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 10:37am:

Any argument that Gillard intended to introduce a Tax at the time she said she wouldn't is ridiculous. Fact is that she was arguing weeks after the election that a fixed price was not a tax.

The whole thing is not much more than a 3 year media beat up. While it can technically be called a tax it is the most pathetic tax I have ever seen, A tax where nobody pays any tax, a tax where the tax man gets nothing.

While the commitment was technically broken it was clearly unintentional and had little or no impact.

Call it whatever you want

Call it onion flavour if that's your fancy

It smells like a tax

It looks like a tax

It sounds like a tax

So it is a tax

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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John Smith

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #118 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:05am

Maqqa wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 11:02am:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 10:37am:

Any argument that Gillard intended to introduce a Tax at the time she said she wouldn't is ridiculous. Fact is that she was arguing weeks after the election that a fixed price was not a tax.

The whole thing is not much more than a 3 year media beat up. While it can technically be called a tax it is the most pathetic tax I have ever seen, A tax where nobody pays any tax, a tax where the tax man gets nothing.

While the commitment was technically broken it was clearly unintentional and had little or no impact.

Call it whatever you want

Call it onion flavour if that's your fancy

It smells like a tax

It looks like a tax

It sounds like a tax

So it is a tax

you smell like Gumpy
you look like gumpy
you sound like gumpy
you run like gumpy

therefore you are

Forrest Gump

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Labor to repeal the Carbon Tax?
Reply #119 - Apr 1^st, 2013 at 1:52pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:48am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 1^st, 2013 at 8:46am:

Kyoto.

China emissions increases were FIVE TIMES that of the Kyoto countries' reductions added together.

In short -

FAIL

So why did we sign it again?? Shocked

its what the public wanted .... are you suggesting the govt. ignore the voters wishes?

No, it isn't. Most people could care less about Kyoto. It is pointless.

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