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I spent about 30 seconds reading the link you provided to wikipedia. Once it pointed out that the only reference over a period of 700 years was the one line reference to vulture feathers in the poem I knew something was up. How much Muslim propaganda did you have to read to convince yourself otherwise?

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Which one is that? That he built a glider? You are getting vaguer by the minute.

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Gandalf, the best lies are 90% truth. But they are still lies.

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There is no sudden turnaround, except from you.

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Actually that was another story I read about him, probably something you or Abu posted. Every time I come across another Muslim 'reference' it is a new story.

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Actually if you had read your own link it should have been obvious to you also.

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What 'core facts'? That he flew faster than a phoenix? That he glued some vulture feathers to his arms? That the poet liked to make fun of him?

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This is my case, right here. It is hard to stand on the shoulders of giants when you are propping up midgets.

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Yes, these are slightly different concepts.

Can you offer an alternative explanation for the lack of significant contributions from the Islamic world to basic science, either during the 'golden years' or modern times? I had a closer look at that list you gave and it does not look like any one of them deserve to be in the top 100 list.

Yadda wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 6:25pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 7:08pm:




gandalf,

As a moslem, i am sure that you are already aware that the Koran [in fact Allah] commands believers to NOT enquire for themselves, about truth, OR, about the source of ISLAM's moral authority,
.....because for a moslem, faith is entirely dependent upon, obedience [submission] to Allah, AND, obedience [submission] to the clerics.





AND;

The Koran [in fact Allah] instructs believers to follow the instruction and guidance of their clerics, implicitly,



And today, obviously, moslem clerics stand in Mohammed's 'place'.



AND;

Moslems are COMMANDED BY ALLAH, NOT TO SEEK, OR TO ACKNOWLEDGE ANY TRUTH, outside of ISLAM....







+++


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Theodore Roosevelt [1858-1919] on the prospects of Muslim liberalization
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1356182206/0#0




Allah does not want you [moslems] to 'reason out' things about your faith, or, to 'reason out' anything else - just to obey, Mohammed!

And this does not encourage within an individual, an attitude to enquiry, which is conducive to [even personal] scientific enquiry.




What ISLAM is saying to the individual moslem is;
What you may learn through scientific method [and reasoning], may take you away from your obedience to me, so do not enquire or try to reason, about anything out side of your religion, JUST GIVE ME, UNTHINKING OBEDIENCE!

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 7:08pm:


Can you suggest one of them who you think deserves to be on the list? Perhaps the first guy? After all, there is considerable uncertainty as to the actual provenance of many works that are ascribed to him, so it is right up your alley. Maybe you can find an islamic propaganda site ascribing the invention of the motor car to him. I notice Firnas is also there, so you could reintroduce the claim that he invented the world's first hang glider by gluing feathers to his arms. This is what it takes to prop up midgets, eh? There are also lots of translators for you to choose from.

I have already suggested one of the mechanisms.

freediver wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 8:49pm:


You did? Sorry FD, can you run us by that again for the slow witted amongst us please? That is after all what the thread is supposed to be about.

Thanks Karnal. Gandalf, the inability to rationally assess the contributions of your peers would be a roadblock to success. As you are demonstrating for us, this seems to be part and parcel of Islam. According to Abu, this is not just natural human parochialism, but actually commanded by Islam. It is just one of the many ways in which Islam stifles basic science.

If you can come up with an alternative explanation for the clear historical pattern please enlighten us. When you described it as correlation, were you suggesting there is no causal link? Is it the west's fault that the Muslim world always has been and continues to be so backwards in this regard?

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2013 at 12:26pm:


How about this FD: does it make sense for me to try and explain a phenomenon that I don't believe exists in the first place? The no-contribution fairy tale is simply a figment of your imagination. Western scientists themselves have no problem acknowledging the enormous contribution islamic science has made - for example:

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freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2013 at 12:26pm:


Lets talk about an "inability to rationally assess" shall we? How about repeatedly ignoring examples of the many scientific contributions in the fields of physics, astronomy and medicine and others? How about dismissing undisputed mathematical contributions to science on the bizarre logic that "maths is not science" - and the simply comical notion that physics can get along just fine without mathematics?

This is the very embodiment of irrational assessment FD.

freediver wrote on Mar 11^th, 2013 at 12:26pm:


Yes, and according to Abu or "some muslims", camel-urine drinking is held as the pinnacle of scientific achievement remember? I've asked you about 5 times now to provide the relevant quotes and not a word. Whats trully pathetic about this is its not just a "by the way" sort of comment, it is front and centre to your bullshit claim that islam props up midgets.

Look, I understand that you most likely made this statement in error (like the claim that deaths in Iraq have been increasing), and thats fine - but at least have the dignity to acknowledge it was just a baseless smeer on muslims. This would be a good first step if you are going to ever hope to rationally assess these topics.