Quote:For God's sake! What is so unlikely or extraordinary about it??
There are many extraordinary things about this claim:
1) That he managed to build a working hang glider out of the materials available to him at the time (vulture feathers apparently).
2) That he managed to get it all figured out by himself, when later developers with better materials had to build on a long timeline of incremental improvements and knowledge.
3) That he managed to fly at all the first time, without a series of trials in suitable 'near-flight' conditions.
4) That all the knowledge he gained vanished without a trace, despite the attention that being able to fly would have attracted, leaving only a single record in a poem mentioning the vultures feathers he stuck to himself.
5) That he bothered with the vulture feathers at all. I am not aware of anyone ever successfully flying with a machine reliant on bird feathers.
6) That you take any of the claims seriously.
Quote:That a scientifically minded guy who is obviously very curious about engineering would make an attempt at flying is nothing unlikely or extraordinary.
Plenty of people attempted to fly throughout history. Gluing bird feathers to yourself is probably one of the most obvious ideas. If this is all you are attributing to him, I have no quarrel. However, you previously argued that he flew successfully with some kind of hang glider.
Quote:yes, and which bits are "obviously fabricated"
The bit where he succeeded in flying. Perhaps you are mixing up falling at high speed with flying.
Quote:oh you want to talk about secondary sources? Well let me assure you there are other secondary sources to the flight story than just al Maqqari's account:
What do you mean by a secondary source? All of the accounts in that link seem to contradict each other, and none of them actually quote what the original source actually says. It just looks like more Muslims making up crap.
Quote:a non-sequitur? A logical fallacy: in your case assuming that because islam didn't contribute significantly to modern science, it necessarily means that islam actively "stifles" science.
No gandalf, this is what I want to you elaborate on:
Quote:Even if islam made no significant contribution to science, that in no way means that islam stifles science.
Quote:At best you have argued that islam hasn't made significant contributions, but thats obviously not the same.
Quote:The list itself is irrelevant - since its an entirely subjective lists comparing scientists and their contributions that can never be compared.
Do you mean that Islamic contributions could never compare?
Quote:As I said, I despise such lists. I don't care if its a list of 100 muslim scientists - its just as meaningless to me.
All I am asking is that you provide a few examples of Islamic scientists who you think ought to be on the list. Pick the best examples. I am not asking for a thesis. It is strange that you go to such lengths to contradict me and argue over contributions that most likely never even happened, when all it would take for you to show that I am wrong is to give a few examples.
Quote:Dear me, is it really so hard to understand? You start a thread called "islam stifles basic science" - so one would reasonably expect the OP to, I don't know, maybe expand on that claim?
Here's a starter for you:
islam stifles basic science because of x y and z... is that so difficult??
Because it is hard to stand on the shoulders of giants whilst propping up midgets.