Australian Politics Forum - Should Australia Buy These Fighter Jets?.

Bobby.

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Re: Should Australia Buy These Fighter Jets?.
Reply #555 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 1:54am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 10:13pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 9:50pm:

The torpedo tubes problem is well known - it's fixed now.

So well known that it doesn't show up when I google for it...

Quote:

The M113 is a BAE kit set.

Actually it isn't. I worked for the company that built the CNC milling machine for it. I've seen them being manufactured. They definitely aren't a "kit", Bobby.

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Yes - I forgot about the Bushmasters - good vehicle.

An excellent vehicle, well ahead of it's time when we adopted it.

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The subs are still only diesel - WW2 technology drives.

They are the largest and quietest diesels presently in service, Bobby. Diesels are better for the roles that the COLLINS are intended for.

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They nearly caused WW3 in Cuba back in 1962 when the Russians couldn't submerge because they were being depth
charged but were running out of air.

Errr, I think you mean surface, Bobby and the Soviet submarines were very, very noisy and easily detected. You really can't keep comparing Apples and Oranges. A WHISKEY class submarine is WWII technology. A COLLINS class submarine is 40 years more mature.

The torpedo tubes being too small seems to have been redacted from history.
I remember it on TV & the newspapers & talking about it to many friends but
it's not there on Google.

As far as I was told the M113 is a kit set.

Those Russian subs were stuck under the water & being depth
charged by the Yanks & yes they did surface & thought they would be killed or captured.
A nuclear submarine would not have been so hot inside
as the sailors nearly died of heat exhaustion & lack of fresh air.
That's what can happen when you can't surface & you're trapped in a diesel sub.
By the way - they thought it was WW3 & were going to launch nukes at the USA.
A very bad situation.

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BigOl64

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Re: Should Australia Buy These Fighter Jets?.
Reply #556 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:10am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 6:43pm:

The Malaysians and the Indonesians appear to have had little difficulty in integrating Russian aircraft into their airforces. As have the Greeks or the Turks which use Russian helicopters.

The Russians have been more than happy to install Western avionics and coms equipment into their aircraft when requested to by their customers. They have managed to translate or replace all the intruments, the manuals and supply the required spares.

I think Ill just deal with the first 2 and you'll have to accept I don't agree with most of what your write about the RAAF, you being army / lay enthuiast and all.

None of the countries you have mentions are as tightly focused on interoperability with the US and their systems as we are. For better or worse we have hiched out air power wagon to the US and to ensure ongoing inter operability between even our own aircraft the major assets will tend to be US built.

The russian may be more than happy to get the latest US communication systems and bolt them into their aircraft at our cost, why wouldn't they, free technology upgrades. FFS!

You try to argue in the most simplistic terms, without any consideration for the reality of our airforce, but then you never actually served with the RAAF have you?

You did really well until your F111 TFR argument, then you turned into nails and bobby.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 111593 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Should Australia Buy These Fighter Jets?. Reply #557 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:16am Get stuffed BigOl, you were a lowly technician who replaced black boxes on old F111s. Don't try & pretend you're an expert on military aviation who knows more than the impressive line of experts on the 4 Corners report.
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BigOl64

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Re: Should Australia Buy These Fighter Jets?.
Reply #558 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:22am

Bobby. wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:16am:

Get stuffed BigOl,
you were a lowly technician who replaced black boxes on old F111s.

Don't try & pretend you're an expert on military aviation
who knows more than the impressive line of experts on the 4 Corners report.

A lowly technician (with 10 yrs of experience). as opposed to a done nothing, been nowhere civilian 'expert like yourself. Grin

Now stop being a little grub troll and go talk with your fellow ignorant civilians mates.

I have told you that the F111 didn't have 'black box' replacement technology that was the F18, I never worked on the F18, pity you have to lie just make yourself look barely adequate during these conversations.

4 corners was a beat up, they're friggen journalists, the truth will alway give way to a good 'story', as they did with thre PNG Gunships.

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Bobby.

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Re: Should Australia Buy These Fighter Jets?.
Reply #559 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:38am

The 4 corners transcript:

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2013/02/18/3690317.htm

Quote:

PIERRE SPREY, FORMER PENTAGON ANALYST: Every aspect of that airplane is basically a failure waiting to happen.

PETER GOON, CO-FOUNDER, AIR POWER AUSTRALIA: They've produced an aircraft that is not going to do the job.

Clearly it's not competitive even with aircraft that are in our region today, let alone those that are coming down the pipe.

ANDREW FOWLER: Pierre Sprey was part of the Pentagon's so-called "fighter mafia" who challenged orthodox aircraft design to produce the F-16.

PIERRE SPREY: If the secretary of the Air Force had known we were sitting in his office, he'd have thrown our ass out! (laughter)

WINSLOW WHEELER, DIRECTOR, STRAUS MILITARY REFORM PROJECT: Anybody paying attention to this airplane knew it was going to be a disaster from the very beginning.

ALAN WILLIAMS, FMR ASSISTANT DEPUTY DEFENCE MINISTER, CANADA: I remember quite vividly that Friday afternoon on July 16th when the government made the announcement that it was going to buy this jet without any competition.

MICHAEL FERGUSON, AUDITOR GENERAL, CANADA: National Defence did not exercise diligence that would be expected in managing a 25 billion dollar commitment.

WING COMMANDER CHRIS MILLS (RET'D): This is an example of the endgame. The JSFs are out of ammunition, they're out of fuel, they're headed for home.

AIR VICE-MARSHAL KYM OSLEY, RAAF: I think that the Airpower Australia and RepSim analysis is basically flawed through incorrect assumptions and a lack of knowledge of the classified F-35 performance information.

LT. GENERAL CHRIS BOGDAN: Sure. It's-it's a, it's a death spiral.

All those experts bagged the F35 but our lowly technician friend BigOl knows better.

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BigOl64

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Re: Should Australia Buy These Fighter Jets?.
Reply #560 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:50am

Bobby. wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:38am:

The 4 corners transcript:

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2013/02/18/3690317.htm

Quote:

PIERRE SPREY, FORMER PENTAGON ANALYST: Every aspect of that airplane is basically a failure waiting to happen.

PETER GOON, CO-FOUNDER, AIR POWER AUSTRALIA: They've produced an aircraft that is not going to do the job.

Clearly it's not competitive even with aircraft that are in our region today, let alone those that are coming down the pipe.

ANDREW FOWLER: Pierre Sprey was part of the Pentagon's so-called "fighter mafia" who challenged orthodox aircraft design to produce the F-16.

PIERRE SPREY: If the secretary of the Air Force had known we were sitting in his office, he'd have thrown our ass out! (laughter)

WINSLOW WHEELER, DIRECTOR, STRAUS MILITARY REFORM PROJECT: Anybody paying attention to this airplane knew it was going to be a disaster from the very beginning.

ALAN WILLIAMS, FMR ASSISTANT DEPUTY DEFENCE MINISTER, CANADA: I remember quite vividly that Friday afternoon on July 16th when the government made the announcement that it was going to buy this jet without any competition.

MICHAEL FERGUSON, AUDITOR GENERAL, CANADA: National Defence did not exercise diligence that would be expected in managing a 25 billion dollar commitment.

WING COMMANDER CHRIS MILLS (RET'D): This is an example of the endgame. The JSFs are out of ammunition, they're out of fuel, they're headed for home.

AIR VICE-MARSHAL KYM OSLEY, RAAF: I think that the Airpower Australia and RepSim analysis is basically flawed through incorrect assumptions and a lack of knowledge of the classified F-35 performance information.

LT. GENERAL CHRIS BOGDAN: Sure. It's-it's a, it's a death spiral.

All those experts bagged the F35 but our lowly technician friend BigOl knows better.

Actually I bagged you, because my last 5 or so posts have NOT been about the just the F35 but the also C17 Globemaster ya fvcken winner Grin

There was a divergence because BR stated that we could 'jump' them off of helecopter ship, which if you agree brings you to a new level of stupid.

I bagged 4 corners becaue they are poor and inept reporters as previous reports have shown (PNG Gunships), the whole basis of the report is predicated on a lie, a lie that you eventualy found and posted. How's this for a news report not everybody likes everything all of the time, now where's my pulitzer prize?

I have bagged BR because he has a poor understanding of RAAF aircraft and RAAF operations

Now run along now before I can your mummy to come and get you. Grin

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 111593 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Should Australia Buy These Fighter Jets?. Reply #561 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:55am BigOl, your ignorance is forgiven & I will continue to post advice from experts without permission. in accordance with the divine plan namaste
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BigOl64

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Re: Should Australia Buy These Fighter Jets?.
Reply #562 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 10:02am

Bobby. wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:55am:

BigOl,
your ignorance is forgiven &
I will continue to post advice from experts
without permission.

in accordance with the divine plan

namaste

I thought you were the 'expert' on all these fighter jets, you feel that you have the technical ability to demean my military service and technical know-how, so you should able to stand alone without anyone's help.

Problem is that you either are a liar or beyond ignorant, with your accusation that F111s are 'black box' technology, when anyone who knows anything about fighters would knw that to be false. I even told you on several occasions.

So nothing you have to say on this subject is valid, you are nothing more than a lying troll

Namaste genius Grin

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Bobby.

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Re: Should Australia Buy These Fighter Jets?.
Reply #563 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 10:43am

http://www.linkedin.com/in/fredkesler

Quote:

Integrated Avionics (Aircraft Electronics) Technician:
Repaired the radar, navigation, auto pilot, and various instrument units (black boxes) of the F-111 and F-15 fighter aircraft.

http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-RWR-ECM.html

Quote:

The ALR-62 is complemented by a Cincinnati Electronics AAR-34 Infra-Red Receiving Set unique in a tactical aircraft as it tracks the infra-red emissions of a pursuing missile's exhaust plume and provides an azimuth indication to the pilot.

Well I suppose the boxes aren't painted black. Cheesy

forgiven according to the divine plan

namaste

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Should Australia Buy These Fighter Jets?.
Reply #564 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 11:23am

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 10:02am:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:55am:

BigOl,
your ignorance is forgiven &
I will continue to post advice from experts
without permission.

in accordance with the divine plan

namaste

I thought you were the 'expert' on all these fighter jets, you feel that you have the technical ability to demean my military service and technical know-how, so you should able to stand alone without anyone's help.

Problem is that you either are a liar or beyond ignorant, with your accusation that F111s are 'black box' technology, when anyone who knows anything about fighters would knw that to be false. I even told you on several occasions.

So nothing you have to say on this subject is valid, you are nothing more than a lying troll

Namaste genius Grin

and what area is your so called technical know-how ?

changing tyres ?

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"All of the arab states have said we will have peace with Israel when there is a state of Palestine as a UN member state and properly constituted." - Jeffrey Sachs.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 111593 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Should Australia Buy These Fighter Jets?. Reply #565 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 11:29am BigOl, Quote: There was a divergence because BR stated that we could 'jump' them off of helecopter ship, which if you agree brings you to a new level of stupid. BigLoser Brian is correct - the F35 has a VTOL system. Also - at least I can spell helicopter.
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BigOl64

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Re: Should Australia Buy These Fighter Jets?.
Reply #566 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 12:22pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 11:29am:

BigOl,
Quote:

There was a divergence because BR stated that we could 'jump' them off of helecopter ship,
which if you agree brings you to a new level of stupid.

BigLoser
Brian is correct - the F35 has a VTOL system.

Also - at least I can spell helicopter.

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 6:41am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 9:57pm:

As to our need for one today, while useful for power projection, we are taking into service two CANBERRA class LHDs which can be utilised in a carrier like way, if we desire with our new F-35s. Wink

You might point out for that to happen we would have to puchase the US Marines STOVL F-35B at an extra cost of about 25% per unit, if we are lucky and they would be operated by the RAN, so we would also buy for the RAAF the CTOL F 35A version for 'normal' air operations.

Unless you meant to haul them from one country to another onboard these boats instead of flying them.

The RAAF will not be landing on any boat in the near or distant future.

Yep, Brian really told me, ohh wait he didn't. Grin

You are really bad at this lying, aren't you?

But you did get me on a single typo, if that is the only win you're going to get, I suppose you should take it.

Namaste winner. Grin

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BigOl64

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Re: Should Australia Buy These Fighter Jets?.
Reply #567 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 12:22pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 10:02am:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:55am:

BigOl,
your ignorance is forgiven &
I will continue to post advice from experts
without permission.

in accordance with the divine plan

namaste

I thought you were the 'expert' on all these fighter jets, you feel that you have the technical ability to demean my military service and technical know-how, so you should able to stand alone without anyone's help.

Problem is that you either are a liar or beyond ignorant, with your accusation that F111s are 'black box' technology, when anyone who knows anything about fighters would knw that to be false. I even told you on several occasions.

So nothing you have to say on this subject is valid, you are nothing more than a lying troll

Namaste genius Grin

and what area is your so called technical know-how ?

changing tyres ?

No prizes for second place, needy boy.

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BigOl64

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Re: Should Australia Buy These Fighter Jets?.
Reply #568 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 12:26pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 10:43am:

http://www.linkedin.com/in/fredkesler

Quote:

Integrated Avionics (Aircraft Electronics) Technician:
Repaired the radar, navigation, auto pilot, and various instrument units (black boxes) of the F-111 and F-15 fighter aircraft.

http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-RWR-ECM.html

Quote:

The ALR-62 is complemented by a Cincinnati Electronics AAR-34 Infra-Red Receiving Set unique in a tactical aircraft as it tracks the infra-red emissions of a pursuing missile's exhaust plume and provides an azimuth indication to the pilot.

http://www.ausairpower.net/USAF/000-ALR-62A-1.jpg

Well I suppose the boxes aren't painted black. Cheesy

forgiven according to the divine plan

namaste

No they are not black they are and always have been grey, but I have aready told you that on ,many occasions. Also that 'ad' for intergrated avionics technician, is not a RAAF 'intergrated avionics technician', so that was another poorly researched lie that you posted there.

Namaste genius Grin

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Should Australia Buy These Fighter Jets?.
Reply #569 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 12:41pm

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 12:22pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 10:02am:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:55am:

BigOl,
your ignorance is forgiven &
I will continue to post advice from experts
without permission.

in accordance with the divine plan

namaste

I thought you were the 'expert' on all these fighter jets, you feel that you have the technical ability to demean my military service and technical know-how, so you should able to stand alone without anyone's help.

Problem is that you either are a liar or beyond ignorant, with your accusation that F111s are 'black box' technology, when anyone who knows anything about fighters would knw that to be false. I even told you on several occasions.

So nothing you have to say on this subject is valid, you are nothing more than a lying troll

Namaste genius Grin

and what area is your so called technical know-how ?

changing tyres ?

No prizes for second place, needy boy.

so what is this know-how ? reading airforce monthly magazine ?

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"All of the arab states have said we will have peace with Israel when there is a state of Palestine as a UN member state and properly constituted." - Jeffrey Sachs.

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