Australian Politics Forum - Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth

rabbitoh07

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2783
Gender: male

Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #45 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:28pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:20pm:

Lol. Can you fit the term racist in a sentence or paragraph any more?

Rabbitoh, answer me this: Is it racist to criticize Christianity?

No. It is not racist to criticise Christianity.
Just as it is not racist to criticise Islam.

It is racist to say - as your mate Geert says:
Islam is not a religion, it's an ideology, the ideology of a retarded culture. I have a problem with Islamic tradition, culture, ideology. Not with Muslim people.

Calling something "the ideology of a retarded culture. " is not criticism. It is a bigotted , racist rant.

I'm sure you now want to come back and say "Islam is not a race!" - and you would be correct. That does not stop this bloke from being a racist however. He is a bigot of course (just like you, as we have discovered), he is prejudiced - and he is racist.

I can just hear his follows now - on the phone to Jonesy tomorrow - "Gday Alan, love your show...now, I'm not a racist, BUT, I think Islam is the ideology of a retarded culture..."

Anyway - just ignore the bloke. Just as sensible people ignore Jonesy and Bolt and the morons that listen to them.

Back to top

IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10277
Gender: male

Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #46 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:34pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:28pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:20pm:

Lol. Can you fit the term racist in a sentence or paragraph any more?

Rabbitoh, answer me this: Is it racist to criticize Christianity?

No. It is not racist to criticise Christianity.
Just as it is not racist to criticise Islam.

It is racist to say - as your mate Geert says:
Islam is not a religion, it's an ideology, the ideology of a retarded culture. I have a problem with Islamic tradition, culture, ideology. Not with Muslim people.

Calling something "the ideology of a retarded culture. " is not criticism. It is a bigotted , racist rant.

I'm sure you now want to come back and say "Islam is not a race!" - and you would be correct. That does not stop this bloke from being a racist however. He is a bigot of course (just like you, as we have discovered), he is prejudiced - and he is racist.

I can just hear his follows now - on the phone to Jonesy tomorrow - "Gday Alan, love your show...now, I'm not a racist, BUT, I think Islam is the ideology of a retarded culture..."

Anyway - just ignore the bloke. Just as sensible people ignore Jonesy and Bolt and the morons that listen to them.

A bet each way, huh.
How is saying "Islam is a retarded culture" racist? There's no mention of race in that statement. Islam, to say it again, is a set of practices and beliefs. These practices and beliefs just happen to be "retarded."

By "retarded" he would mean "backward" or "intellectually deficient." Still nothing to do with race.

Back to top

IP Logged

brumbie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 994 Gender:	Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth Reply #47 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:36pm the trouble with aussie values is they actually haven't got any.they are changeable according to circum.There is no realistic values or morals,just customs and habits and thus makes the redneck.For australians to form an opinion means asking a few million other people first.
Back to top	IP Logged

rabbitoh07

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2783
Gender: male

Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #48 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:38pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:34pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:28pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:20pm:

Lol. Can you fit the term racist in a sentence or paragraph any more?

Rabbitoh, answer me this: Is it racist to criticize Christianity?

No. It is not racist to criticise Christianity.
Just as it is not racist to criticise Islam.

It is racist to say - as your mate Geert says:
Islam is not a religion, it's an ideology, the ideology of a retarded culture. I have a problem with Islamic tradition, culture, ideology. Not with Muslim people.

Calling something "the ideology of a retarded culture. " is not criticism. It is a bigotted , racist rant.

I'm sure you now want to come back and say "Islam is not a race!" - and you would be correct. That does not stop this bloke from being a racist however. He is a bigot of course (just like you, as we have discovered), he is prejudiced - and he is racist.

I can just hear his follows now - on the phone to Jonesy tomorrow - "Gday Alan, love your show...now, I'm not a racist, BUT, I think Islam is the ideology of a retarded culture..."

Anyway - just ignore the bloke. Just as sensible people ignore Jonesy and Bolt and the morons that listen to them.

A bet each way, huh.
How is saying "Islam is a retarded culture" racist? There's no mention of race in that statement. Islam, to say it again, is a set of practices and beliefs. These practices and beliefs just happen to be "retarded."

By "retarded" he would mean "backward" or "intellectually deficient." Still nothing to do with race.

Tony Abbott says:
He is entitled to his view but I think that the Muslims in this country see themselves rightly as fair dinkum, dinky-di Australians, just as the Catholics and the Jews and Protestants and the atheists, we see ourselves as Australian

So - you obviously cannot vote for the Liberal party. You are bigotted towards the Greens.

Who will you be voting for next election?

Is there a Racist Party?

Back to top

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #49 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:47pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:14pm:

ian wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:55pm:

Im not a fan of Wilders, however my understanding is that Barnett intervened by speaking to the hotel management and implying they may lose state government business if they hosted Wilders. To be quite hionest he shopuld have been allowed to speak here and let his idiocy be exposed. These types of bigots and racists only ever attract a small following (here at least) and its quite often helpful to let them crawl out of the dark and expose themselves.

True. Ignoring is the best option.

If a group of racists want to go and hear some racist talk about being racist - well, good on them. And good on Tony Abbott for truing to distance himself from the racist and his racist audience. But it is a shame that there are others in his party who support the racist and his racist audience.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/bernardi-tests-abbotts-patience...

Tony must be torn. He wont accept the vote of Thommo in Parliament. Will he accept the votes of the racists who vote for Bernardi?

Abbott should go and meet Wilders, shake his hand and declare his support for his stance for freedom and debate him on any points he disagrees with him.

Same for Gillard.

Anything less is pandering to the god-awful fooking morons.

For the life of me, I don't see what Wilders has said that is so terrible.

Wherever there is more Islam, there is less of everything else, especially freedom. Why can't people say that?
If non-Europeans can speak out against European colonisation, why can't a white Dutch guys also speak out against colonisation by non-Europeans?

Back to top

IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10277
Gender: male

Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #50 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 9:20pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:38pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:34pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:28pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:20pm:

Lol. Can you fit the term racist in a sentence or paragraph any more?

Rabbitoh, answer me this: Is it racist to criticize Christianity?

No. It is not racist to criticise Christianity.
Just as it is not racist to criticise Islam.

It is racist to say - as your mate Geert says:
Islam is not a religion, it's an ideology, the ideology of a retarded culture. I have a problem with Islamic tradition, culture, ideology. Not with Muslim people.

Calling something "the ideology of a retarded culture. " is not criticism. It is a bigotted , racist rant.

I'm sure you now want to come back and say "Islam is not a race!" - and you would be correct. That does not stop this bloke from being a racist however. He is a bigot of course (just like you, as we have discovered), he is prejudiced - and he is racist.

I can just hear his follows now - on the phone to Jonesy tomorrow - "Gday Alan, love your show...now, I'm not a racist, BUT, I think Islam is the ideology of a retarded culture..."

Anyway - just ignore the bloke. Just as sensible people ignore Jonesy and Bolt and the morons that listen to them.

A bet each way, huh.
How is saying "Islam is a retarded culture" racist? There's no mention of race in that statement. Islam, to say it again, is a set of practices and beliefs. These practices and beliefs just happen to be "retarded."

By "retarded" he would mean "backward" or "intellectually deficient." Still nothing to do with race.

Tony Abbott says:
He is entitled to his view but I think that the Muslims in this country see themselves rightly as fair dinkum, dinky-di Australians, just as the Catholics and the Jews and Protestants and the atheists, we see ourselves as Australian

So - you obviously cannot vote for the Liberal party. You are bigotted towards the Greens.

Who will you be voting for next election?

Is there a Racist Party?

Whoever you vote for will exemplify your bigotry. If you vote for Labor or Greens on principle, then you're being bigoted toward the Liberals and all the other parties. Funny how it works both ways, huh.

That's the problem if you think in slogans or just write based on whatever emotion rises to the surface at the time, you end up contradicting yourself.

Just another "useful idiot."

Back to top

IP Logged

Annie Anthrax

Gold Member

Offline

Take the plan, spin it
sideways

Posts: 7057
Gender: female

Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #51 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 9:22pm

Amadd wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 4:53pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:29pm:

... wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:21pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 1:14pm:

Where is the conflict with democracy?

No conflict - there is no relationship whatsoever. But I guess people will draw all sorts of bows to justify their hypocrisy.

Forgiven.

I was simply refuting Amadd's statement that venues cancelling Wilders appearances is no "kick in the guts to all of our past and present soldiers who think/thought that they were upholding something in this country."
Freedom is good. Wilders should be allowed to speak, protestors should be free to protest and venues should be able to make decisions about who they host. All is well. Perhaps Wilders might like to forego dealing with venues and spew his hatred in a public park or something.

Quote:

Vague, anonymous threats are not easily prosecutable offences.

Wilders' own freedom supports your point.

Annie, you cannot refute something without proof.

I can refute your statement because I have proof that you provided no proof to refute my statement.

That's fine for a private venue to do as they like, however, they obviously cancelled for fear of something...and that's not what this country used to be about.

Btw, would you like to refute these statements too?

"RestoreAustralia is supporting the work of those trying to get the cowardly RSL executive to allow Geert Wilders the right to speak at their Clubs. We have had a few vocal Muslims opposing the visit by Geert, and the cowardly clubs have caved in and refused the right for true blue Australians to book their halls and listen to what Geert has to say. Where is the right to Freedom of Speech? Why are these RSL executives so afraid of a few fanatics? What the hell did we FIGHT for since World War Two?"

The following is an email exchange between a veteran and a QSociety member working to regain our right to Freedom of Speech:

"Greetings all I have sent this onto the Liberal party who sent out asking for support in the coming campaign.

Greetings Mark – Kerry passed your email onto me and like Kerry I would like to know if Tony or the Liberal Party would make a statement to support the freedoms for which our generation in WW2, and generations since, have fought to preserve, and now fighting against religious fanatics. These freedoms are associated with the right of any organisation to invite speakers who they want to listen to. The Australian Islamic Association were given the right a few months ago to invite and listen to the Secretary of the United Nations Islamic Federation of Islamic States, in Bankstown, without any hindrance or threats – as Geert Wilders tour is now attracting from fanatics associated with them – so we ask your organisation to make a statement to support our freedoms by supporting the tour.

regards Kev Dickson"

http://www.restoreaustralia.org.au/muslim-fanatics/

What's to refute in those emails? They contain both valid points and a load of ranting crap.

Back to top

I can't do this, but I'm doing it anyway.

IP Logged

ian

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 9451

Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #52 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 9:32pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:04pm:

How is it racist to criticize Islam? It's a set of religious practices; race has nothing to do with it. Does the racism tag work for Christianity too? Have the numerous criticisms of Christianity over the past 200 years in European literature been a form of racism? Does that mean the postmodern left, who criticise Christianity at the drop of a hat, is racist too?

Wilders is presenting Islam as an idealology not a religion and basing his criticisms on that. When he talks about Muslim immigration he is actually refering to middle eastern and african immigration. Not only does this ignore the majority of Muslim people in the world but tars them with the same cultural brush.

Back to top

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #53 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 9:36pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 6:16pm:

My suspicions are well founded. Considering almost every piece of advancement in the past 400 years came from Western countries while Islamic countries produced nothing of value (and still don't unless they import Western technology), I think we are well within our rights to be suspicious.

The liberal democratic ideas we live by didn't emerge from Mecca. They emerged from North, West Europe, particularly Britain/England; which themselves were an outgrowth of Protestantism. That's right, Christianity.

Islamic countries produced submission to a transcendental deity over pragmatic, earthly concerns for 800 years. I doubt that this will change any time soon. I think you must believe we are pretty dumb to think Islam will willingly morph into liberal democracy.

Right, so lets just pause and think about what you are actually saying: islamic countries are backward and oppressive - no argument here. But are we talking about these countries? No - we are talking about the people who are exiting these countries - of which there are two types: people looking for a better life, and people fleeing from the oppressive regimes in said islamic countries. So what do you think is the one thing that unites these two types of migrants? How about they don't want to continue living under the oppressive and backward regimes? So clearly, you and these immigrants are in agreement about these countries being thoroughly distasteful - so why you hatin' them?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:04pm:

How is it racist to criticize Islam? It's a set of religious practices; race has nothing to do with it.

Because the vast majority of muslims in Australia (and the western world) are non-whites. Numerous studies have demonstrated that most islamophobes associate "muslim" with an imaginary "race" of people. Even the fact that muslims come from a wide range of cultural and ethnic origins doesn't seem to matter - "muslim" is overwhelmingly perceived as a homogenous "race" of people. Classic case of "outgroup homogeneity". Yes there is the intellectual aspect of anti-islam that argues on an ideological and doctrinal level, but this is in no way representative of your run-of-the-mill islamophobe.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #54 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 9:51pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 9:36pm:

islamic countries are backward and oppressive - no argument here. But are we talking about these countries? No - we are talking about the people who are exiting these countries - of which there are two types: people looking for a better life, and people fleeing from the oppressive regimes in said islamic countries. So what do you think is the one thing that unites these two types of migrants? How about they don't want to continue living under the oppressive and backward regimes? So clearly, you and these immigrants are in agreement about these countries being thoroughly distasteful - so why you hatin' them?

You never hear of Sikhs or Hindus or Buddhists plotting bloody mayhem in London or Holsworthy or Chicago.

But there is no shortage of Muslims 'fleeing' so called Muslim countries only to engage in jihad once they are safely taken in. Whose responsibility are those bastards?

They are your responsibility. You are not victims. You are given every chance and every freedom, yet it is Muslims who will murder, in the name of Islam, the people who have given them every chance and every freedom.

Back to top

IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10277
Gender: male

Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #55 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 9:55pm

ian wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 9:32pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:04pm:

How is it racist to criticize Islam? It's a set of religious practices; race has nothing to do with it. Does the racism tag work for Christianity too? Have the numerous criticisms of Christianity over the past 200 years in European literature been a form of racism? Does that mean the postmodern left, who criticise Christianity at the drop of a hat, is racist too?

Wilders is presenting Islam as an idealology not a religion and basing his criticisms on that. When he talks about Muslim immigration he is actually refering to middle eastern and african immigration. Not only does this ignore the majority of Muslim people in the world but tars them with the same cultural brush.

Whether it is an ideology or religion doesn't matter as they both have a set of practices and a doctrine that is adhered to. It's a 7th century religion that is incompatible with liberal democracy. The insertion of race into the argument is done by the left to try and gain some traction over the existing arguments. They can't argue for Islam on cultural grounds, so they use the racist tag to demean opposition, as if this somehow makes their 7th century religion more acceptable to modern standards.

Back to top

IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10277
Gender: male

Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #56 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 10:04pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 9:36pm:

Right, so lets just pause and think about what you are actually saying: islamic countries are backward and oppressive - no argument here. But are we talking about these countries? No - we are talking about the people who are exiting these countries - of which there are two types: people looking for a better life, and people fleeing from the oppressive regimes in said islamic countries. So what do you think is the one thing that unites these two types of migrants? How about they don't want to continue living under the oppressive and backward regimes? So clearly, you and these immigrants are in agreement about these countries being thoroughly distasteful - so why you hatin' them?

I don't believe for a second Islam will be compatible with liberal democracy. They will play the game while their numbers are in the minority, but once they get near the majority, then radical changes will occur. Transcendental ideologies that have submission to a deity as its central tenet are not compatible with the politics or societies of the modern world.

Quote:

Because the vast majority of muslims in Australia (and the western world) are non-whites. Numerous studies have demonstrated that most islamophobes associate "muslim" with an imaginary "race" of people. Even the fact that muslims come from a wide range of cultural and ethnic origins doesn't seem to matter - "muslim" is overwhelmingly perceived as a homogenous "race" of people. Classic case of "outgroup homogeneity". Yes there is the intellectual aspect of anti-islam that argues on an ideological and doctrinal level, but this is in no way representative of your run-of-the-mill islamophobe.

The only people inserting race into the argument are the Muslims and the leftists. Islam can't be defended on cultural or intellectual grounds, so its apologists have to try other tactics to silence opposition.

The only other reason why race is used is because some leftists are so dumb that they think any criticism of something non-Western is racist.

Back to top

IP Logged

Amadd

Gold Member

Offline

Mo

Posts: 6217

Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #57 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 10:15pm

I think that it should also be said that the likelihood of being involved in a terrorist attack perpetrated by Islamic radicals is extremely slim.

Of the roughly 2 billion muslims worldwide, there is an extremely minute percentage of those who dedicate themselves to hating and killing westerners.
The overwhelming likelihood of being murdered will be from somebody who is personally known.

Back to top

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #58 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 10:16pm

Soren wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 9:51pm:

[quote author=gandalf link=1361276378/53#53 date=1361360195]

You never hear of Sikhs or Hindus or Buddhists plotting bloody mayhem in London or Holsworthy or Chicago.

Thats true. Just like we never hear of the overwhelming majority of muslims in those cities who are sincere about coexisting and integrating into society. Nor do we hear much about muslim leaders who come out and condemn those plotters.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: Geert Wilders cancelled in Perth
Reply #59 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 10:18pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 10:16pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 9:51pm:

[quote author=gandalf link=1361276378/53#53 date=1361360195]

You never hear of Sikhs or Hindus or Buddhists plotting bloody mayhem in London or Holsworthy or Chicago.

Thats true. Just like we never hear of the overwhelming majority of muslims in those cities who are sincere about coexisting and integrating into society. Nor do we hear much about muslim leaders who come out and condemn those plotters.

And how is that not your responsibility? How is that something for me to worry about?

Back to top

IP Logged